What is up with Sam Bennett???

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by calgaryblood

Damn this is your 11th post in 13 years and you remembered this comment from September?

Roger Millions alternate account

[FlamesFan68]

Originally Posted by EVERLAST

When I think of a Michael Backlund that was given as much time as he has been given to slowly become the player he has I wonder if we are just as patient with Sam how awesome hell be.
How many coaches has Backs seen in his time....5? 6?

Bennet will be fine...

If this was golf I'd agree with you. 5 or 6 years a player could be up in the leader boards. When an underperforming player is on a team trying to win it can hurt the entire team. Backlund remember was drafted in the days of Sutter, where bigger was better than talent. Backlund was the only thing we had resembling real talent coming up in the system then. He was given the time to develop, for this reason.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by FlamesFan68

If this was golf I'd agree with you. 5 or 6 years a player could be up in the leader boards. When an underperforming player is on a team trying to win it can hurt the entire team. Backlund remember was drafted in the days of Sutter, where bigger was better than talent. Backlund was the only thing we had resembling real talent coming up in the system then. He was given the time to develop, for this reason.

Feaster once stated in an interview that Backlund "whizzed passed the graveyard" as injuries resulted in him avoiding waivers. He then was a fixture in trade rumors before turning it around when he hit 24-25 years old. Bennett deserves to be given a fair shake for at least another couple of seasons before he is run out of town. God forbid a 20 year old for not scoring 30 goals and 60+pts

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I think the flames have fixed their goaltending issues with Johnson





Not suggesting they need to be traded today, but backlund should be moved at the deadline to maximize his return and if Bennett is going to be moved the best time is probably at the draft where the flames will be in a better position to take on salary.

My own apparent fixation on drawing unwarranted comparisons between Bennett and Draisatl notwithstanding, I am troubled by your focus on continuous player movement as a form of "good asset management." As a few others have noted we agree that management should always be evaluating and exploring every opportunity to improve the team. But just because Bennett might at the moment be the most expendable member of the Flames core, this does not mean it is a good idea to move him. I think it is far too early.

Moreover, I am perplexed by your suggestion that the Flames should trade Backlund at this year's trade deadline. Some posters seem to view every player's purpose as a function of his trade value, and they become obsessed by the idea that every player should be traded when his return is at its peak. This is silly. The Flames are competing to be in the playoffs this Spring and Backlund has been their best forward. He is very important to the Flames success now, and quite likely in the future. The day may come when moving Backlund makes the most sense, but it sure doesn't make any sense this year.

Your thoughts on Bennett and Backlund appear to me to reflect a view of maximizing player values at all costs with little regard for balancing team construction in the short and long term. These look like trades for the sake of making trades—as if the appearance of business on its own is an indication of progress and improvement.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

My own apparent fixation on drawing unwarranted comparisons between Bennett and Draisatl notwithstanding, I am troubled by your focus on continuous player movement as a form of "good asset management." As a few others have noted we agree that management should always be evaluating and exploring every opportunity to improve the team. But just because Bennett might at the moment be the most expendable member of the Flames core, this does not mean it is a good idea to move him. I think it is far too early.

Ok, I will attempt to answer your question with a question so you can see how silly this is.

If 120 games isn't sufficient time to make projections and analysis on a player, when is the appropriate threshold? 200 Games? 250? 283?

Fans on this message board were making proclamations and projections on Bennett before he'd played a single game in the NHL. Check out this thread where people are proclaiming that Bennett is better than Monahan after less than a month of NHL experience.

You can check out some of the main antagonist in this thread GoJetsGo and Gaskal having no problem extrapolating Bennetts career. Gaskal predicted a 63 point rookie season.

I didn't go around suggesting these posters were idiots for their prognostications and I won't do it now. The question is, why is it appropriate to make projections on a player with basically no NHL experience and not appropriate to make projections on a player with a season and a half of NHL experience?

You say yourself in the above paragraph the organization should always be evaluating their assets but at the same time it's too soon to consider moving him. Why? Why is it too soon to consider moving Bennett? When will be the appropriate time?

Moreover, I am perplexed by your suggestion that the Flames should trade Backlund at this year's trade deadline. Some posters seem to view every player's purpose as a function of his trade value, and they become obsessed by the idea that every player should be traded when his return is at its peak. This is silly. The Flames are competing to be in the playoffs this Spring and Backlund has been their best forward. He is very important to the Flames success now, and quite likely in the future. The day may come when moving Backlund makes the most sense, but it sure doesn't make any sense this year.

Because I don't want a repeat of the Giordano situation, which right now is looking downright awful.

Backlund is playing the best hockey of his pro career, maybe his life, right now. There is basically zero evidence he can sustain this level of play if you consider his previous seasons and shooting percentage. Is Backlund going to be a main piece of the puzzle on a roster when Monahan, Brodie, Hamilton, Gaudreau and Bennett and leading the roster to playoff success in 2-3 years? I don't think so, so it's not worth locking up serious dollars to keep him especially as he threatens to return to the player he was over the length of the deal.

The OTHER aspect of moving Backlund is the asset management sell high equation, but that is a secondary concern to avoiding locking up a player who has a dubious history of putting up points after a couple of successful season with an exaggerated shooting percentage.

Your thoughts on Bennett and Backlund appear to me to reflect a view of maximizing player values at all costs with little regard for balancing team construction in the short and long term. These look like trades for the sake of making trades—as if the appearance of business on its own is an indication of progress and improvement.

First point, maximizing player values at all costs is an integral part of running a successful organization, and the league is littered with examples of teams who didn't cut bait soon enough. Hell, the Flames are a great example of that with Baertschi, but look at Tampa if you want the concrete example with Drouin. Bennett is obviously better than Baertschi and Drouin but the concept is the same.

Where it gets trickiest for the Flames is in understanding that all their best and recent draft picks are playing on the big club right now and that barring a miracle at this point there isn't much help coming in key positions like defense. Without a significant trade, the Flames are going to have to rely on a moon shot to get another quality top 4 defender in time to coincide with the most productive years of the rest of the team's core group. I think you can find second line offensive players easier than you can top 4 defenders, both in the draft and in free agency, so it makes sense to me to explore a trade scenario that sends Bennett one way while returning a top flight, can't miss defender to play with either Hamilton or Brodie to solidify the defensive group.

The whole point of trading Bennett is that he has considerable value and will return a significant asset in a one for one trade scenario.

If Trouba was interested in living in Western Canada that's the kind of trade I see unfolding, and it's exactly the kind of deal the Flames need over the long term to become a contender.

[Greybeard]

we have waited years to have a center depth like that of Backlund, Monahan, Jankowski and Bennett. We are two or three years away from a cup run. Let's be patient and let these guys develop. They will be ready when we are ready!!!!

[calgaryblood]

Flash you're the guy who started a thread that listed Bennett as a core piece and left out Monahan and Hamilton less than a year ago.

You're not the guy who should be going back ripping people's opinions.

[Rick M.]

Originally Posted by Greybeard

we have waited years to have a center depth like that of Backlund, Monahan, Jankowski and Bennett. We are two or three years away from a cup run. Let's be patient and let these guys develop. They will be ready when we are ready!!!!

But...but...but...Oilers!

[FlamesFan68]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Feaster once stated in an interview that Backlund "whizzed passed the graveyard" as injuries resulted in him avoiding waivers. He then was a fixture in trade rumors before turning it around when he hit 24-25 years old. Bennett deserves to be given a fair shake for at least another couple of seasons before he is run out of town. God forbid a 20 year old for not scoring 30 goals and 60+pts

Puleezzzzzz. The Flames are famous for not developing players correctly since the 80's. Fleury tore a new hole in the AHL. Toronto sent Mitch Marner back to junior and in my opinion was the lynchpin on the line with Tkachuck. They did this not because they desperately needed scoring now but because they wanted to develop the player correctly. He's now an early rookie of the year candidate.

Where is Bennett? Mired in inconsistency and bad penalties.

Could Backlund have used a few years in the AHL, of course. Not all players are here for scoring, Backlund was initially, but he developed more defensively then came around offensively when he became comfortable.

[mcjmcj]

When talking about the Flames, can people stop mentioning Jankowski in "how great the Flames depth is at center." One day, he might be a third or fourth line center, but that I by no means a sure thing. The Flames have 2 centers who are arguably able to play in the top three lines( no true #1 center, as least the way Monahan is playing).

As everyone knows, the Flames could use a top 4 d-man, a top 6 right winger, and I know I will take flack for this, a true - high skilled center who can skate. Maybe it will be Bennett, but not yet.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

You can check out some of the main antagonist in this thread GoJetsGo and Gaskal having no problem extrapolating Bennetts career. Gaskal predicted a 63 point rookie season.

Congratulations... you uncovered me attempting to make a joke prediction where I rigged the numbers to match his rookie jersey number.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by mcjmcj

When talking about the Flames, can people stop mentioning Jankowski in "how great the Flames depth is at center." One day, he might be a third or fourth line center, but that I by no means a sure thing. The Flames have 2 centers who are arguably able to play in the top three lines( no true #1 center, as least the way Monahan is playing).

As everyone knows, the Flames could use a top 4 d-man, a top 6 right winger, and I know I will take flack for this, a true - high skilled center who can skate. Maybe it will be Bennett, but not yet.

I think he has the potential to be more than a third or fourth line center, but I absolutely agree that it's silly to include him in any discussions about our NHL center depth until he's actually playing in the NHL.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

You can check out some of the main antagonist in this thread GoJetsGo and Gaskal having no problem extrapolating Bennetts career. Gaskal predicted a 63 point rookie season.

I didn't go around suggesting these posters were idiots for their prognostications and I won't do it now. The question is, why is it appropriate to make projections on a player with basically no NHL experience and not appropriate to make projections on a player with a season and a half of NHL experience?

lol, people on a message board are always guessing and speculating how draft picks / prospects are going to end up. That is a rather light hearted discussion.

You concluding Bennett will never be a top six player and as a result should be traded or the team is making a mistake is really taking things a giant leap further.

And doing that with a smug, I'm-the-smartest-guy-here-because-I'm-the-only-one-who-sees-it tone is the only thing that was antagonizing.

I figured after your proclamation we wouldn't find anyone else who suggested trading core players would have you simmer down a bit when we found two within an hour of you posting that. But yet you're carrying on.

You can feel free to write Bennett off after any amount of time you want. That's not the issue. It's accepting that it puts you out on a limb for being grossly premature and overzealous.

[Boxman]

Backlund I agree has considerable value and should be moved ASAP. He will be impossible to resign - the choice really boils down to Backlund, or Bennett + Backlund asset in a few years time. Backlund's return at the end of this season will be a good young player.

Bennett can be moved once he's good. If we have to wait until he's 27 years old, so be it. Otherwise you would be selling Bennett at his lowest value, not his highest. I disagree that he has significant value right now. He looks like crap. He will improve over the next few years - this must be rock bottom for him.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by FlamesFan68

Puleezzzzzz. The Flames are famous for not developing players correctly since the 80's. Fleury tore a new hole in the AHL.

OK, you just lost all credibility, if you had any. Fleury played a grand total of 42 regular-season games in the AHL. He did not make the team out of training camp in 1988; no surprise there, as he was a kid fresh out of junior and had a grand total of 10 games of minor pro experience, and the Flames were the best and deepest team in the NHL at the time. The next time Fleury was called up, it was for good, and he went on to have a spectacular NHL career. Yeah, they sure bungled his development, didn't they?

Then you turn around and criticize the Flames for not sending Bennett back to junior – despite the fact that they did. Since you have evidently forgotten, I remind you that he spent most of 2014-15 on the IR list, and when healthy, was sent back to Kingston to finish the Frontenacs' season. His performance there pretty much showed that he had outgrown the competition in junior, and he made the team out of training camp the following year.

But hey, whatever floats your boat. Your standards are so loose, and so self-contradictory, that you could accuse every team of blowing every player's development; but by all means, confine your venom to the Flames, against whom you obviously have a particular vendetta. Go nuts. Enjoy yourself. Just don't expect the rest of us to buy it.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Boxman

Backlund I agree has considerable value and should be moved ASAP. He will be impossible to resign - the choice really boils down to Backlund, or Bennett + Backlund asset in a few years time.

Why is it impossible to re-sign Backlund? He's going to sign a contract with somebody, and every other team operates under the same cap.

And again, why would re-signing Backlund cause the team to lose Bennett? It's perfectly possible for the team to have both on the roster, even after Bennett's rookie contract is up. Naturally they will have to economize elsewhere. Not spending $3m on a 4th-line centre, or $5m on a 3rd-pairing defenceman, would be a good start.

Honestly, I'm amazed how many people think the principal purpose of a hockey team is to maximize the trade value of your assets. There is also this little thing about winning hockey games at some point, which requires actually keeping your players once they become valuable.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by FlamesFan68

Puleezzzzzz. The Flames are famous for not developing players correctly since the 80's. Fleury tore a new hole in the AHL. Toronto sent Mitch Marner back to junior and in my opinion was the lynchpin on the line with Tkachuck. They did this not because they desperately needed scoring now but because they wanted to develop the player correctly. He's now an early rookie of the year candidate.

Where is Bennett? Mired in inconsistency and bad penalties.

Could Backlund have used a few years in the AHL, of course. Not all players are here for scoring, Backlund was initially, but he developed more defensively then came around offensively when he became comfortable.

Nothing makes me laugh more then when fans talk about on ice factors for organizations over the course of decades like it's relevant.

Regardless of whether your stance on what happened in the 80's is correct, how is it relevant? Nobody involved in making any of the decisions for this club right now, were around, or involved with the team back in the 80's. It's completely irrelevant. What would be relevant is if you had decades worth of data or examples of decisions Treliving, Burke, Conroy, or our current coaching staff have done in regards to player development.

What this club did under Feaster is no longer relevant, how can what did or didn't happen during the Fletcher era possibly be.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by FlamesFan68

Puleezzzzzz. The Flames are famous for not developing players correctly since the 80's. Fleury tore a new hole in the AHL. Toronto sent Mitch Marner back to junior and in my opinion was the lynchpin on the line with Tkachuck. They did this not because they desperately needed scoring now but because they wanted to develop the player correctly. He's now an early rookie of the year candidate.

Where is Bennett? Mired in inconsistency and bad penalties.

Could Backlund have used a few years in the AHL, of course. Not all players are here for scoring, Backlund was initially, but he developed more defensively then came around offensively when he became comfortable.

So you are suggesting sending Bennett to the minors?

Backlund was no where near Bennett is at 20 years old. My point is Backlind struggled to hit his potential prior to turning 25 so that is why it is too early to worry about Bennett not being a superstar at 21

[Boxman]

Backlund would most likely sign a contract with a Stanley Cup contender who is loading up for a deep run into the playoffs. To stay with Calgary, he will want high term and dollars a la Giordano as someone else put it. Calgary's situation is different from other teams in that they have recent high draft picks Bennett and Tkachuk that we probably want to keep. Other teams picked in the bottom 15 in recent years and don't have the same considerations - different cap situations. Not impossible to resign Backlund, but is it really desirable to resign a player on the wrong side of 25 who is performing at his all time best?

The money doesn't work out - economically sound decisions are easy to talk about in hindsight, but difficult to make in practice. Not to be overly critical of Giordano, but his contract doesn't seem economical even when he's playing at his best. We will have to face the reality that some contracts will be a good deal, some average, some a bad deal. It's tough to just decide to economize and then do it.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

So you are suggesting sending Bennett to the minors?

Backlund was no where near Bennett is at 20 years old. My point is Backlind struggled to hit his potential prior to turning 25 so that is why it is too early to worry about Bennett not being a superstar at 21

It was an odd post. He praised the Leafs for returning Marner to junior as an 18 year old, which is exactly what the Flames did. Both Bennett and Marner started full seasons as 19 year olds.

Bennett lost a good chunk of development being injured for almost an entire season. That's not a small thing.

#MMFexcuses