The Whoas! of Dougie Hamilton

[Nevermind32]

He needs to be tough and use his size more.

[Robo]

Originally Posted by Nevermind32

He needs to be tough and use his size more.

Last year maybe so far this year he looks like a real prick

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Brodie and Gio had absolutely different starting points..... Brodie was likely close to 160 lbs when he was drafted. They both had a lot to work on to improve upon. Gio's initial way to the NHL was by being an agitator... He did not have the skill set to get drafted... not as a 18 year old and not as a 19 year old. These players had a list of things to work on.

Hamilton is a freak of nature being 6-5 and 200 as a 19 year old. He was 2-3 times better than Gio and or Brodie as a 18 year old... in 4-5 years Gio and Brodie caught up. As Flames fans we are expecting our best d-men to do better year after year. That is why we (as a group) turned on Russell last year. He had peaked out at the end of 2014-15.

Has Hamilton significantly improved from what he was as a 19 year old rookie?

Why the heck did he want out of Boston?

He has had 4 years of NHL coaching and sports psychologists.

What will he do differently this year over last year to make him better? Score more? will that win more games for the Flames?

He's 28th in scoring over the last 3 seasons.

You're being really silly

[Wastedyouth]

Why argue with Ricardo? Its a lesson in futility...

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

He's 28th in scoring over the last 3 seasons.

You're being really silly

so you are totally happy and satisfied with what he is bringing to the Flames and another 5 years of the same is good enough for you?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

Why argue with Ricardo? Its a lesson in futility...

I have trouble when the answer to why is Hamilton going to get better is "Because".

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Nevermind32

He needs to be tough and use his size more.

Bing Bing Bing.... we have a winner... first person to have an actual opinion on how Hamilton can get better.

Yep I can agree that he would be a more valuable player if he used his size more. make the other team think twice about running Brodie and Gaudreau.

[Wastedyouth]

"Use his size more"

To what exactly. What does this even mean?

[TheoFleury]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Brodie and Gio had absolutely different starting points..... Brodie was likely close to 160 lbs when he was drafted. They both had a lot to work on to improve upon. Gio's initial way to the NHL was by being an agitator... He did not have the skill set to get drafted... not as a 18 year old and not as a 19 year old. These players had a list of things to work on.

Hamilton is a freak of nature being 6-5 and 200 as a 19 year old. He was 2-3 times better than Gio and or Brodie as a 18 year old... in 4-5 years Gio and Brodie caught up. As Flames fans we are expecting our best d-men to do better year after year. That is why we (as a group) turned on Russell last year. He had peaked out at the end of 2014-15.

Has Hamilton significantly improved from what he was as a 19 year old rookie?

Why the heck did he want out of Boston?

He has had 4 years of NHL coaching and sports psychologists.

What will he do differently this year over last year to make him better? Score more? will that win more games for the Flames?

Regehr is a good a example of a D that started to put his defensive game together at around Hamilton's age, and he was a pure shutdown guy with no offense to speak of. If Hamilton can become half of what Regehr was in his own end, the rest is already there. Most Dmen aren't great defenders age 18-23, there is no reason Hamilton can't improve in this area by a fair amount over the next year or two.

If he is still lacking defensively at 25-26, I will concede the point. However, for right now, it's too early to say what will happen. The kid has all the tools, it's just a matter of putting it all together. Of course there are no guarantees, but to EXPECT he won't improve is a weird opinion IMO.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I have trouble when the answer to why is Hamilton going to get better is "Because".

Except your reason for him not getting better is "because".

Why do you think experience, maturity and continued training will not result in better performance from a 23 year old?

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Of course there are no guarantees, but to EXPECT he won't improve is a weird opinion IMO.

It's the not so fine line between prediction and narrative. Ricardodw is all narrative.

[Buff]

Use his size more?

Does he not reach for the puck enough or does he not hit enough? I suspect people want to see the latter.

Hamilton is 6'5". Does that mean he should be a guy who hits and crushes people at every opportunity? I hardly think so. Big does not equate to tough and bruising. Make a guy play a different game than suits his ability and you see a player who is a shell of what he was or could be. Height and size are not an ability, they are a feature. Dougie is more of a skill player than a physical player.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

I have trouble when the answer to why is Hamilton going to get better is "Because".

How about "why not"?

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

so you are totally happy and satisfied with what he is bringing to the Flames and another 5 years of the same is good enough for you?

Assuming he finds the appropriate partner, absolutely. He is very much equal to a guy like Brent Seabrook.

High scoring defense groups have a high correlation with championships.
RGI, does not.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Regehr is a good a example of a D that started to put his defensive game together at around Hamilton's age, and he was a pure shutdown guy with no offense to speak of. If Hamilton can become half of what Regehr was in his own end, the rest is already there. Most Dmen aren't great defenders age 18-23, there is no reason Hamilton can't improve in this area by a fair amount over the next year or two.

If he is still lacking defensively at 25-26, I will concede the point. However, for right now, it's too early to say what will happen. The kid has all the tools, it's just a matter of putting it all together. Of course there are no guarantees, but to EXPECT he won't improve is a weird opinion IMO.

IIRC, Regehr was expected to be somewhat of an offensive guy out of junior. in his first couple years there were sure critics. Then he found his game. There may have been a bit more patience because of his accident.

Hamilton will get better - he's had three coaches and three systems in three years. I wish he'd develop his slapshot more, to be a threat on the PP, though his wrister is deadly.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by TheoFleury

Regehr is a good a example of a D that started to put his defensive game together at around Hamilton's age, and he was a pure shutdown guy with no offense to speak of. If Hamilton can become half of what Regehr was in his own end, the rest is already there. Most Dmen aren't great defenders age 18-23, there is no reason Hamilton can't improve in this area by a fair amount over the next year or two.

If he is still lacking defensively at 25-26, I will concede the point. However, for right now, it's too early to say what will happen. The kid has all the tools, it's just a matter of putting it all together. Of course there are no guarantees, but to EXPECT he won't improve is a weird opinion IMO.

To this cogent argument I counter Dion Phanuef

another freak of nature... outstanding scoring guy with that just never got to the point where he understood the game.

Phanuef was the #6 highest scoring d-man in the NHL over his first 3 years ending when he was 22.

[Wastedyouth]

Literally every casual and advanced stat, and the eye test, show Hamilton as at the very least a #3 Dman, and in most cases, a top pairing one.

I'm not sure what other proof you need. Other than the fact that it doesn't fit your narrative so no amount of proof will ever change your bias.

[Bear]

I'm not totally sold on him as a top pair guy yet but anyone who hasn't noticed Dougie being more physical isn't watching the games.

[cznTiburon]

Dougie just needs to score more goals, get more primary assists, box out the front of the net, drive people through the boards, take less penalties and skate faster. That will fix all of his and the teams problems

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by belsarius

Except your reason for him not getting better is "because".

Why do you think experience, maturity and continued training will not result in better performance from a 23 year old?

I am not saying he is not going to get better I am just asking what he needs to do to get better. A lot of people are saying that the 25-26 year old Hamilton will be worth 8M / year.

What will that future Hamilton look like? A Chara or a Keith? Can he play well enough in his own zone to be a Seabrook?

Will he be a skilled PP specialist? will he kill penalties? Will he be one of the players who you take a time out for him to play the last minute of a game with a one goal lead?