Black Lives Matter get police float kicked out of Pride Parade

[Kjesse]

I don't have a horse in this debate directly, but do indirectly. Those who one could call 'black' whom I've heard from do not identify with this group or movement at all, and some feel they need to make that point in conversation which has nothing to do wthat this issue... As in raise it themselves.

The sense I get is this is not about black lives mattering as much as it is about a particular group of people whom identify as a particular subset of blacks trying to turn this into something it is not.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

You don't think the fact that black people are more likely to be poor is a race problem?

Not really. It's a social mobility problem. In the US it's hard to get a good education, or have a future if your parents don't have much money.

It's just easier to say it's a black thing.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

[B]So, because you falsely believed the struggle was over for the LGBTQ community and were reminded that "Hey, life isn't always fantastic when you're gay," suddenly the Pride events have meaning to you? That's fantastic.[B]

The Orlando shooting had zero impact on the level of acceptance I feel. That being: A comfortable amount of acceptance with more strides to make. This was one psycho who targeted the LGBTQ community. ISIS? Homophobe? Gay man with a vendetta? I'm not really concerned with the why anymore. It happened, we move forward, it most DEFINITELY did NOT move us backward.

My point is that the Pride parades don't really mean much anymore, certainly not what they did, and now there is very little political significance to marching in one. As has been pointed out, it's now used more as a way to save face with the gay community in general, even when your voting patterns don't indicate you truly support gay rights.

I stand by thinking that BLM stood for the right things. We're they bullish and callous about it? Sure, but LGBTQ history is riddled with radical activists. The Pride parade was designed to remember them! It was a good time and a good place to bring some issues forward regarding treatment of people of colour within the gay community.

If that didn't shake you to your core then you're full of hot air. I've always supported pride, this year highlighted that the struggle is not over.

You're supporting BLM and that's great but you back it up by saying the LGBTQ community white wash things. So if that's truly the reason behind the protest, why do they care if there's a police float there?

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Delgar

I don't have a horse in this debate directly, but do indirectly. Those who one could call 'black' whom I've heard from do not identify with this group or movement at all, and some feel they need to make that point in conversation which has nothing to do wthat this issue... As in raise it themselves.

The sense I get is this is not about black lives mattering as much as it is about a particular group of people whom identify as a particular subset of blacks trying to turn this into something it is not.

This is the most roundabout way of saying "I've got black friends" ever.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

This is the most roundabout way of saying "I've got black friends" ever.

Way to contribute zero to the conversation and try to inflame it. Bravo troll.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

If that didn't shake you to your core then you're full of hot air. I've always supported pride, this year highlighted that the struggle is not over.



You're supporting BLM and that's great but you back it up by saying the LGBTQ community white wash things. So if that's truly the reason behind the protest, why do they care if there's a police float there?

Please, do not begin to judge my personal reaction to Orlando. Unlike you, apparently, I wasn't naive to think the struggle was over. Orlando was a reminder but did absolutely nothing to change where we are as a community. Zero.

As far as the police float goes, why haven't you read anything? The BLM chapter that staged this explained exactly why they don't think the float is appropriate. And to top it off, it was literally one of a handful of requests and pretty much the least important of them all. But because it impacts people who are straight too, it's getting good media traction.

[Kjesse]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

This is the most roundabout way of saying "I've got black friends" ever.

What are you saying in a 'roundabout' way? That someone without so called black skin can't comment on the issue?

If you need to be black to talk about your experiences or opinions on the matter, declare your skin colour and go from there.

[PepsiFree]

As a commentary on the situation as a whole, I find this thread (and some of the media coverage) odd.

BLM staged a protest in a parade that is held to remember a violent uprising in the gay community, to call for greater inclusion of people of colour AMONGST the gay community.

Their demands were as follows:

increase funding and support for Black Queer Youth events and Blockorama, the Pride showcase for black performers; reinstate the South Asian stage; hire more black deaf and ASL interpreters; hire more black trans women, indigenous people, and others from vulnerable communities; and remove police floats from future parades.

Why did I bold the last one? Right, because that's all anyone wants to talk about, good or bad, is police. Nobody wants to talk about the issue of racism in the LGBTQ community, nobody wants to talk about what a great idea it is to have increasing funding for BQY events, or hiring more people of colour, or getting the South Asian stage back... they want to talk about the police float.

It's sort of funny I guess, and probably an issue with the way BLM goes about things as a whole. They are fighting for good, just things, and yet? Because they've demonised police officers as a whole that is all anyone wants to talk about.

It's just sort of bizarre. The police float thing was such an insignificant part of their list of demands but it is getting all the attention. Really, if they don't say anything about the police, does a thread even get made?

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Way to contribute zero to the conversation and try to inflame it. Bravo troll.

Im guessing you missed the first 5 pages of the thread then. Catch up.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

As a commentary on the situation as a whole, I find this thread (and some of the media coverage) odd.

BLM staged a protest in a parade that is held to remember a violent uprising in the gay community, to call for greater inclusion of people of colour AMONGST the gay community.

Their demands were as follows:


Why did I bold the last one? Right, because that's all anyone wants to talk about, good or bad, is police. Nobody wants to talk about the issue of racism in the LGBTQ community, nobody wants to talk about what a great idea it is to have increasing funding for BQY events, or hiring more people of colour, or getting the South Asian stage back... they want to talk about the police float.

It's sort of funny I guess, and probably an issue with the way BLM goes about things as a whole. They are fighting for good, just things, and yet? Because they've demonised police officers as a whole that is all anyone wants to talk about.

It's just sort of bizarre. The police float thing was such an insignificant part of their list of demands but it is getting all the attention. Really, if they don't say anything about the police, does a thread even get made?

Then why did they say it at all?

[Red Potato Standing By]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

As a commentary on the situation as a whole, I find this thread (and some of the media coverage) odd.

BLM staged a protest in a parade that is held to remember a violent uprising in the gay community, to call for greater inclusion of people of colour AMONGST the gay community.

Their demands were as follows:


Why did I bold the last one? Right, because that's all anyone wants to talk about, good or bad, is police. Nobody wants to talk about the issue of racism in the LGBTQ community, nobody wants to talk about what a great idea it is to have increasing funding for BQY events, or hiring more people of colour, or getting the South Asian stage back... they want to talk about the police float.

It's sort of funny I guess, and probably an issue with the way BLM goes about things as a whole. They are fighting for good, just things, and yet? Because they've demonised police officers as a whole that is all anyone wants to talk about.

It's just sort of bizarre. The police float thing was such an insignificant part of their list of demands but it is getting all the attention. Really, if they don't say anything about the police, does a thread even get made?

it could be that is the only part that people don't agree with.why would you be upset or want to argue something you agree with?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Zethrynn

it could be that is the only part that people don't agree with.why would you be upset or want to argue something you agree with?

Well, there is a tone amongst some people that basically demonises BLM for protesting in the parade at all, so I can't imagine those people care much for the 90% of worthwhile things they were protesting for.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Zulu29

Then why did they say it at all?

Please read one of the multiple articles that includes quotes from Janaya Khan.

[Red Potato Standing By]

nvm

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Delgar

I don't have a horse in this debate directly, but do indirectly. Those who one could call 'black' whom I've heard from do not identify with this group or movement at all, and some feel they need to make that point in conversation which has nothing to do wthat this issue... As in raise it themselves.

The sense I get is this is not about black lives mattering as much as it is about a particular group of people whom identify as a particular subset of blacks trying to turn this into something it is not.

Hang on, are you suggesting that 50 or 100 activists furiously issuing demands do not necessarily represent the millions of people who they claim to represent, even though they share a race, gender, or ethnicity? That those millions of people aren't a homogenous group and might have diverse opinions about police, race, gender, and a host of other issues?

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Why did I bold the last one? Right, because that's all anyone wants to talk about, good or bad, is police. Nobody wants to talk about the issue of racism in the LGBTQ community, nobody wants to talk about what a great idea it is to have increasing funding for BQY events, or hiring more people of colour, or getting the South Asian stage back... they want to talk about the police float.

This goes back to what I said earlier about the most dedicated cadre of anti-establishment activists alienating even many of the people they claim to represent by insisting that all who are struggling against West/Patriarchy/White/Straight/Capitalist establishment have common interests. Each time you introduce a new mandatory cause to show solidarity with you narrow the appeal of your own cause.

Okay women, let's stand up for ourselves and press for equal opportunity in the workplace and in marriage! (Millions of women cheer)

And let's tell that misogynist Catholic Church that they can go to hell! (Hundreds of thousands of Catholic women look around nervously and walk away)

And we have to put a stop to the exploitation of capitalism and put the power of the economy in the hands of the state! (Hundreds of thousands of women who are okay with the free market slip away)

And we won't stand for the raping of the environment any longer. Stop logging! Stop fracking! Stop the oilsands! (Hundreds of thousands of women whose families relies on those industries shrug and leave).

And let's show our solidarity with Palestinians by denouncing Israel! (Hundreds of thousands of women who have no dog in that fight shake their heads and walk away)

Hey, where did our support go? We're being marginalized! The mainstream media and the establishment have demonized our cause!

Is it reasonable to expect everyone who is gay or who supports gay rights to necessarily be on-side with Black Lives Matter, or any other activist group, and be willing to throw people who they are trying to build bridges with under the bus out of solidarity with radicals?

To True Believers there's no question. When you've built your entire worldview and public engagement on an unrelenting ambition to tear down the establishment, anyone who doesn't share your zeal seems like traitors to the cause. But most people aren't True Believers. Most people, be they gay, feminist, an advocate for the homeless, or a supporter of environmental stewardship has at least one foot in mainstream society, and doesn't want to burn it all down. They drive cars and shop at malls and live in the suburbs and take their kids to soccer. They don't side with the radical left on every issue. Maybe it's more important to them to welcome police to a parade than it is to give Black Lives Matter a platform for their narrow cause.

[Zulu29]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Hang on, are you suggesting that 50 or 100 activists furiously issuing demands do not necessarily represent the millions of people who they claim to represent, even though they share a race, gender, or ethnicity? That those millions of people aren't a homogenous group and might have diverse opinions about police, race, gender, and a host of other issues?



This goes back to what I said earlier about the most dedicated cadre of anti-establishment activists alienating even many of the people they claim to represent by insisting that all who are struggling against West/Patriarchy/White/Straight/Capitalist establishment have common interests. Each time you introduce a new mandatory cause to show solidarity with you narrow the appeal of your own cause.

Okay women, let's stand up for ourselves and press for equal opportunity in the workplace and in marriage! (Millions of women cheer)

And let's tell that misogynist Catholic Church that they can go to hell! (Hundreds of thousands of Catholic women look around nervously and walk away)

And we have to put a stop to the exploitation of capitalism and put the power of the economy in the hands of the state! (Hundreds of thousands of women who are okay with the free market slip away)

And we won't stand for the raping of the environment any longer. Stop logging! Stop fracking! Stop the oilsands! (Hundreds of thousands of women whose families relies on those industries shrug and leave).

And let's show our solidarity with Palestinians by denouncing Israel! (Hundreds of thousands of women who have no dog in that fight shake their heads and walk away)

Hey, where did our support go? We're being marginalized! The mainstream media and the establishment have demonized our cause!

Is it reasonable to expect everyone who is gay or who supports gay rights to necessarily be on-side with Black Lives Matter, or any other activist group, and be willing to throw people who they are trying to build bridges with under the bus out of solidarity with radicals?

To True Believers there's no question. When you've built your entire worldview and public engagement on an unrelenting ambition to tear down the establishment, anyone who doesn't share your zeal seems like traitors to the cause. But most people aren't True Believers. Most people, be they gay, feminist, an advocate for the homeless, or a supporter of environmental stewardship has at least one foot in mainstream society, and doesn't want to burn it all down. They drive cars and shop at malls and live in the suburbs and take their kids to soccer. They don't side with the radical left on every issue. Maybe it's more important to them to welcome police to a parade than it is to give Black Lives Matter a platform for their narrow cause.

Nailed it

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Hey, where did our support go? We're being marginalized! The mainstream media and the establishment have demonized our cause!

Or, like most political movements and ideologies, they break off into different sects and form different political theories. For instance there's a massive divide between second and third-wave feminists on the issue of prostitution, but we're still seeing evolution in prostitution laws. You don't need complete unity and cohesion for a cause to be effective.

[Mr.Coffee]

this thread might be one of Cliff's best performances.

Great discussion and thanks to rube for questioning and furthering the debate so I have interesting stuff to read.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Maybe it's more important to them to welcome police to a parade than it is to give Black Lives Matter a platform for their narrow cause.

I both agree and disagree.

I have the most trouble wrapping my head around those, like Zulu most recently, who seemed to just need to be outraged by BLM without much thought. I think you've stated your issue extremely well and it's a broader one, but I'm hearing a lot of "How could they do this at Pride?" Sort of stuff, which tells me immediately that those people A. have no idea why BLM was even there and didn't bother to look into it, and B. don't really know/care much about the history of Pride at all. What they were protesting for (aside from the police float) were very real issues facing the LGBTQ community but still a few people tunnel visioned on the police thing.

Ironically, the people who think BLM tried to "ruin" Pride with their protest/activism might be the same people a fair selection of the LGBTQ community believe ruined Pride by taking all of the politics out of it and making it a corporate family thing.

It just seems like something that could use a boost of awareness and should be a serious discussion amongst the LGBTQ community about the problem of racism within has been discarded, and we got another conversation about BLM and the police which is fine, but seems like a stretch in this scenario. But the media wants what it wants.

[SebC]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

The police float thing was such an insignificant part of their list of demands but it is getting all the attention. Really, if they don't say anything about the police, does a thread even get made?

Their non-police demands can be loosely described as affirmative action, a subset of identity politics, and have certainly been discussed quite a bit, even if addressed generically.

Furthermore, be cautious interpreting silence as endorsement. Sometimes it's just fatigue.