What is the most you would give up for 3rd OA?

[Poe969]

You are basically Oiler-izing the Flames if you trade away Mikael Backlund for a winger prospect. May as well trade Gio for Darnell Nurse while you're at it. After all Nurse can skate really good and he's the next Chris Pronger, hockey fans said so

I"m sorry but this is just a terribly ignorant comment. You're saying that Backlund who's best year is 20 goals is the same level as Gio who's been in the Norris Trophy conversation for 2 years and that Nurse is the equivalent to Puljujarvi.

If anything, your attitude is "oilerizing" the team. The mentality of "I don't want to trade this guy, he's one of our best players and I really like him so he has to be worth more" is what the oilers are doing. They over value all of their players. Backlund is good but take a step back for a second and look at the big picture; Backlund really isn't part of the core, he's a third line center (if he's playing higher, your team is in trouble) and he's scored 20 goals once and never eclipsed 50 points. If he was on another team, most Flames fans would laugh at the thought of a third line center having enough value to move into the top 3.

Take a look at third line centers from around the league and see if any of them are good enough to add to pick #6 for pick #3. It's going to take more than a third line center to make CBJ trade away that pick.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Poe969

If anything, your attitude is "oilerizing" the team. The mentality of "I don't want to trade this guy, he's one of our best players and I really like him so he has to be worth more" is what the oilers are doing.

I am fine with trading Backlund, actually.

For a return that makes sense, like an actual, tangible upgrade on Backlund who plays the same (vital) position and won't take three or four more years to get up to speed as a two-way player.

I'm even fine with moving Monahan for Matthews, for that same reason.

Jesse Puljujarvi for Backlund makes zero sense because he is an 18 year old winger, which leaves a giant donut hole in the middle if Backlund is out. Backlund is a 26 year old veteran center who happens to be by far the best 200-foot forward on our team.

and he's scored 20 goals once and never eclipsed 50 points.

Fact is Backlund produces at a rate empirically comparable to second line forwards. He plays a second line role at center, where his second line outscores other team's second lines and at times first lines.

These above statements are all true. Tthe Flames don't have a replacement for him. That's a fact. Not Monahan nor Bennett. Not yet. Not remotely.

If he was on another team, most Flames fans would laugh at the thought of a third line center having enough value to move into the top 3. Take a look at third line centers from around the league and see if any of them are good enough to add to pick #6 for pick #3. It's going to take more than a third line center to make CBJ trade away that pick.

Value's got nothing to do with it. Even if Backlund lacks the value to return Puljujarvi, his value to us is more than his value to another team. Center is not a position of excess for us as all our most talented centers are green.

[bigrangy]

2016 1st + 2017 1st, top 5 protected. if the pick ends up being protected (it won't be :P) 2018 1st unprotected.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I am fine with trading Backlund, actually.

For a return that makes sense, like an actual, tangible upgrade on Backlund who plays the same (vital) position and won't take three or four more years to get up to speed as a two-way player.

I'm even fine with moving Monahan for Matthews, for that same reason.

Jesse Puljujarvi for Backlund makes zero sense because he is an 18 year old winger, which leaves a giant donut hole in the middle if Backlund is out. Backlund is a 26 year old veteran center who happens to be by far the best 200-foot forward on our team.



Fact is Backlund produces at a rate empirically comparable to second line forwards. He plays a second line role at center, where his second line outscores other team's second lines and at times first lines.

These above statements are all true. Tthe Flames don't have a replacement for him. That's a fact. Not Monahan nor Bennett. Not yet. Not remotely.



Value's got nothing to do with it. Even if Backlund lacks the value to return Puljujarvi, his value to us is more than his value to another team. Center is not a position of excess for us as all our most talented centers are green.

I strongly disagree about him being the 2nd line C. I have little doubt your top two centres next year will be Monahan and Bennett. Backlund is a fantastic 3rd line C but due to C depth he is expendable for the right piece. Would I do Backlund and 6 for 3? Absolutely. I don't think the Jackets would though because they really don't need Backlund.

[Sylvanfan]

Backlund has 2 years left on his contract and than he can be a UFA.

No matter how much you huff and puff advanced stats.....that does effect his trade value.

[FlameZilla]

Backlund's name pops up in trade rumours because he's nearly UFA & could potentially become quite expensive for our salary hierarchy. There's no denying that what he provides is vital to the team, but down the line he may not be as irreplaceable as some of the other guys like Monahan/Gaudreau/Brodie/Giordano/Hamilton/Bennett.

I love Backs, but it's worth considering 'selling high' while his contract is still palatable. If that pockets us an elite scoring winger in the same age bracket as our young core then I can cope with seeing him go.

[GreenLantern2814]

Backlund + 6 + ? for 3rd overall seems fair. I've always thought he's eventually going to be moved for wing help anyway - they aren't going to be able to pay him what he's worth in two years.

I've never really seen a scenario present itself where that returns a winger as good as Puljujarvi - the timing may be a little earlier than we'd all like, but this is a good trade for both teams.

Columbus solves their center depth almost overnight - Dubinsky, Backlund, draft Brown, still have William Karlsson too.

Calgary gets a winger to play with Bennett, who will be forced to grow up fast and play #2C from the start of camp. Stajan moves up the depth chart, and a kid plays on the 4th line. Arnold, Jankowski, whoever.

Who knows. Maybe we don't need to do this at all, Columbus takes Brown at 3, the Oilers take Juolevi, the Canucks want a big center in Dubois and Puljujarvi falls to us organically. Stranger things have happened.

[icecube]

Name one thing stranger ^^

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by icecube

Name one thing stranger ^^

Fowler falling to 12 in 2010 was pretty crazy. He was pegged to go top 3/5 that year iirc.

[GreenLantern2814]

^^What he said - Fowler was supposed to be the consolation prize for missing out on Seguin and Hall. Ironically, Fowler is better than every player taken between 3 (Gudbranson? WTF) and 12. Or he's the 2nd best player, depending how you feel about Ryan Johansen.

[EldrickOnIce]

Though they are all studs - and I expect it was pretty close to begin with, Seth Jones was ranked #1 going into the 2013 draft and fell 3 spots to #4.
I don't think this year is one of those times - but I guess you never know.

[Funkhouser]

I would offer #6, #55 and Colborne for
#3 and Hartnell

gives CLB a younger, cheaper wing without a NMC and give Calgary 2 RWs (albeit one overpaid)

[iloveicedhockey]

I imagine that slide only took place because it a d man sliding, and defenceman aren't sexy, marketable picks for a good few years. If everyone picks as they are there's a low chance CBJ pass and none that Edmonton do. If (huge if) we somehow end up with Puljujarvi, we would've paid for him.

[David Struch]

To Flames:

3rd Overall (Jesse Puljujärvi)

To Blue Jackets:

6th Overall
35th Overall
54rd Overall
56th Overall

Columbus receives Calgary's 2nd for moving from 3rd to 4th, Florida's 2nd for moving from 4th to 5th, then the Dallas 2nd from moving 5th to 6th.

[Cleveland Steam Whistle]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

I am fine with trading Backlund, actually.

For a return that makes sense, like an actual, tangible upgrade on Backlund who plays the same (vital) position and won't take three or four more years to get up to speed as a two-way player.

I'm even fine with moving Monahan for Matthews, for that same reason.

Jesse Puljujarvi for Backlund makes zero sense because he is an 18 year old winger, which leaves a giant donut hole in the middle if Backlund is out. Backlund is a 26 year old veteran center who happens to be by far the best 200-foot forward on our team.



Fact is Backlund produces at a rate empirically comparable to second line forwards. He plays a second line role at center, where his second line outscores other team's second lines and at times first lines.

These above statements are all true. Tthe Flames don't have a replacement for him. That's a fact. Not Monahan nor Bennett. Not yet. Not remotely.



Value's got nothing to do with it. Even if Backlund lacks the value to return Puljujarvi, his value to us is more than his value to another team. Center is not a position of excess for us as all our most talented centers are green.

I think you just painted the perfect case for why we should trade Backlund for a good young winger. Lots of green centre depth, we need some on the wing.

If Backlund is our best centre, then this team isn't winning anything anyway, so why not move him out for a player that will peak with our green centres? What's the point of keeping Backlund around now so he can be our best centre until the others catch up and he's then post apex in his 30's on the decline?

[Alberta_Beef]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Backlund has 2 years left on his contract and than he can be a UFA.

No matter how much you huff and puff advanced stats.....that does effect his trade value.

Does anyone else just love how any player signed at any point in their contract will seemingly have their value hurt by the contract if you listen to fans.

[BrownDrake]

Backlund and #6 for #3

We will be trading Backlund by the trade deadline in 2018 where he likely only gets us a late first rounder. In a redraft of 2007 he is likely a #15 to 18 pick, thats probably what is required to move those three spots. Asset management, you need someone in the system to step up (Bennett to 2nd line center) and someone in your system to step into the 3rd line center role (Jankowski, Grant, Colborne Hamilton????) that has a lower cap hit.

If you have to throw in a late second rounder to get it done you do it. Gives us two dynamic players on lines 1 and 2 and adds size.

We are likely not a playoff team until 2017/18 or 2018/19 anyway, gives us a couple years to allow our 2nd and 3rd line centers to grow/improve and likely a few more top 15 picks to address other needs.

Please use patience management, if we sign some high paid older RW UFA trying to compete with some of these other Western teams in the near term we are likely making a mistake and downgrading our potential in 3 to 5 years when this team should be competing strongly for a chance at a cup.

[1qqaaz]

Ugh, I really want the Flames to pick 3rd, but I don't want to trade away Backlund. He's a Flame through and through, and I believe he helps the winning culture of the team. I also don't think Columbus needs him.

Maybe Columbus would want Colborne, Frolik (possibly retained), picks, or any non-Gillies prospect.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by BrownDrake

Backlund and #6 for #3

We will be trading Backlund by the trade deadline in 2018 where he likely only gets us a late first rounder. In a redraft of 2007 he is likely a #15 to 18 pick, thats probably what is required to move those three spots. Asset management, you need someone in the system to step up (Bennett to 2nd line center) and someone in your system to step into the 3rd line center role (Jankowski, Grant, Colborne Hamilton????) that has a lower cap hit.

If you have to throw in a late second rounder to get it done you do it. Gives us two dynamic players on lines 1 and 2 and adds size.

We are likely not a playoff team until 2017/18 or 2018/19 anyway, gives us a couple years to allow our 2nd and 3rd line centers to grow/improve and likely a few more top 15 picks to address other needs.

Please use patience management, if we sign some high paid older RW UFA trying to compete with some of these other Western teams in the near term we are likely making a mistake and downgrading our potential in 3 to 5 years when this team should be competing strongly for a chance at a cup.

Completely agree with the bolded. Sorry for the double post.

The Flames don't have the cap space to sign a top 6 forward in this year's free agency. They shouldn't waste their little cap on non-quality players, since that'll just leave less room next year. Lets wait for the 2017 free agency, so we can go hard on a top player (Benn, Burns, maybe Bishop).

Championship teams are built by going over the top for a few seasons. That takes patience. It's not about making the playoffs this year, it's about winning the cup in 3 to 5 years. I think Puljujarvi could definitely help the Flames win a cup in 3 to 5 years. Much more than anyone picked at 6th. Therefore, unless the Flames really overpay, it's worth it.

[Vinny01]

I could definitely see Columbus wanting to dump some salary and free up space for prospects if they move that pick. Flames chased those deals in 2014 and got Hamilton in 2015 having the space to sign him and the picks to do it.

I could see our first and 2 of our seconds for 3, Hartnell, Bobrovsky which would save the Jackets $12M in space ($15M considering Puljujarvi plays next year and Brown/Keller likely don't)

Unfortunately we don't have the space for that move but it would add 2 top 6 forwards and a goalie which are our biggest needs