Should Treliving Be Fired?

[IntenseFan]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Where exactly did you see we are in win-now mode? Because all I've heard from the Flames is words like ''patience'', ''it's a process'', ''we're not done yet'', ''work to be done'', etc. Sounds to me like the rebuild is still very much in full swing.

The day the BT starts trading our draft picks for immediate help when weare close to the top of the standings is the day I'll believe we are in win-now mode. As this last season proved, we aren't anywhere close.

So no I don't think Treliving should be judged based on that assertion. Judge him on how he's done rebuild-wise. In that regards, he's done a damn fine job. But to judge his work because we are suddenly in win-now mode? Hell no, we aren't close to that.

What else would they be saying right now? The Flames brass aren't clueless at PR and they understand placation and politics.

There's outside pressures also to win now that you shouldn't discount. A weakened Canadian dollar, a need for a new rink, economic downturn in Alberta. The Flames are going to get a bit cash-squeezed compared to the last few years. They likely feel they need to compete and succeed to overcome this.

I agree we are not close to win-now, but I have great fear that Flames management is not in the same head-space.

Very interested to see the draft moves this year. I suspect it will shed light on my assumption.

[Poe969]

So I'll translate what ricardodw is saying...

Originally Posted by ricardodw

He traded for Hamilton and signed Frolik and I don't like them so he should be fired!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Poe969

So I'll translate what ricardodw is saying...

Ricardo is not so subjective as to judge a GM by whether ricardo likes a GM.

Ricardo judges a GM objectively - by the RGI of the NHLers he brings in and the RBI of the prospects.

[ricardodw]

Sutter was gm from 2003-2010

Number of years where the Flames were not within 3 pts of a playoff spot -none

If you can spend to the cap you have to be at least close to a playoff spot.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

bunk.

No one can credibly state that Hartley is let go today if the team makes the playoffs or contends for a playoff spot.

And the #1 reason for that not happening is the goaltenders.

There were a lot of reasons, and regardless, (and for the 2nd time) if the management team felt there is a better candidate moving forward, it doesn't need to be about anything Hartley did or didn't do.

This is a business.

You suggesting the GM be fired two years into a rebuild process is beyond brutal. The only thing you should be doing is admitting you have grossly over-reacted instead of responding emotionally to a single personnel change. Do you see anyone agreeing with you? That's a pretty tiny limb you're out on.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by dino7c

come on now...he signed Stajan? Wideman? traded for Jones? need to give the guy a few years. I know you like to stir it up but seriously use your brain

And other teams that spend to the cap do not handle bad contracts on a regular basis and keep making the playoffs?

[codynw]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Trevling has one more year... If he puts out a team that is close to the top of the salary cap and does not make the playoffs then he will rank in the bottom of the GM ladder.

14 teams do not make the playoffs.... 4 teams are within 3 pts of the last team to make the playoffs.

10 teams did BAD.

5 of the BAD teams had more than 8M cap space left over ie they were rebuilding.

Any GM that spends to the cap and finishes in the bottom 6 needs to be fired.

Being close to the cap means nothing when half of the contracts are about to expire and the players won't be back.

[DomeFoam]

If you're judgement is this bad maybe its you that should be fired from your day job

[Poe969]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Sutter was gm from 2003-2010

Number of years where the Flames were not within 3 pts of a playoff spot -none

If you can spend to the cap you have to be at least close to a playoff spot.

"not within 3 pts of a playoff spot So in you're books its ok to miss the playoffs as long as you're 3 points or closer? Most of those years sucked because the team wasn't good enough to make it and not bad enough to get a good pick. BT took the team after Feaster started the rebuild and he's slowly improving them. If you thought he'd come in and make them contenders right away, you must be....ricardodw

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by codynw

Being close to the cap means nothing when half of the contracts are about to expire and the players won't be back.

Careful, that's context.

When he figures out what that is it might cause a complete main-frame meltdown.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

KC I gotta say your commitment is impressive.

i'm quite enjoying some of the responses actually. Some legitimately funny ones in there.

I have no problem advancing unpopular positions. I see inconsistency is how the organization is evaluating its people and think that the GM needs more scrutiny in the discussion.

[Benched]

Congratulations. You've officially trumped Edmonton for championship of the 'no good'


I honestly never thought I'd see the day.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

LOL. Maybe it's just me then.

Then tell me what accountability do you propose for his failure to address the goaltending?

Or are you suggesting that Hartley could have done better with Hiller and Ramo last season?

If the Flames had even NHL average goaltending this year does Hartley still get fired?

I could put some of the blame on Hartley for the poor goaltending. Having 3 goalies at the start of the year hurt us badly but for game 1 both Hiller and Ramo looked awful and Hartley refused to give Ortio a chance to about 10 games in. Basically sat him for 3 weeks then gives him 2 games he doesn't play well and he is done. I believe that Ortio's fate could have been much better if he got a honest crack early in the season

I also think Hartley favours veterans over youth too much. I like making guys earn it but at time guys that are god awful played too many minutes. How often did Raymond get scratched then the next game he is on the first line and first pp unit?? Engeland vs guys like Nakaldal, Kulak, Wotherspoon. After Russell was traded it was pretty clear some of these guys deserved to play but didn't get a chance until Treliving dumped someone

Then throw on top of that the Gaudreau, Monahan, Bouma situation. They should have just been given a day off after superbowl. Hartley types don't last on teams very long, too strict

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

bunk.

No one can credibly state that Hartley is let go today if the team makes the playoffs or contends for a playoff spot.

And the #1 reason for that not happening is the goaltenders.

It is the #1 reason but far from the only reason. Did you hear the press conference? Treliving owned the goalie problem, said it was his fault. But he had a problem with the way the team played in front of the goalies. It is for this reason Hartley is fired.

You seem to be tunnel visioning on the goalies and ignoring the defensive zone play, special teams and lack of possession. You aren't judging Hartley on his entire body of work this year. And then you want to fire the GM who has an amazing record in trades so far?

This thread is dumb. And that's putting it nicely. I liked Hartley, I thought he'd return. But you have put the blinders over your eyes if you don't see this is about something far greater than our goalies this year.

Luckily ricardodw showed up in this thread to take some heat off of you.

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

There were a lot of reasons, and regardless, (and for the 2nd time) if the management team felt there is a better candidate moving forward, it doesn't need to be about anything Hartley did or didn't do.

This is a business.

You suggesting the GM be fired two years into a rebuild process is beyond brutal. The only thing you should be doing is admitting you have grossly over-reacted instead of responding emotionally to a single personnel change. Do you see anyone agreeing with you? That's a pretty tiny limb you're out on.

Does it look like I'm really concerned with how many people agree with me?

i'll say it again.

Treliving might believe there is a better person out there. There is no doubt the team underperformed. There is no doubt the young core took steps forward this year, many with career years.

There is also no doubt what the #1 reason for the team underperforming is. And the coach shouldnt be fired for personnel that the GM failed to change.

[GoJetsGo]

Nope, once again you're completely missing the fact that this is a business and a personnel change can be made without there being any kind of "fault" at play.

If they felt Hartely wasn't the guy going to advance the rebuild all along, this could have been a foregone conclusion.

You're suffering from Ricardow tunnel-vision, stuck on the train of thought that this is a direct consequence of something Hartely did or didn't do.

There's a bigger picture here. The fact you seem to think you're ingenious for having an unpopular opinion doesn't change the fact it's rooted in ignorance.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

i'm quite enjoying some of the responses actually. Some legitimately funny ones in there.

I have no problem advancing unpopular positions. I see inconsistency is how the organization is evaluating its people and think that the GM needs more scrutiny in the discussion.

So what is your take on Burke?

Doesn't BT's performance fall at his feet?

[GoJetsGo]

Quote from Treliving's presser:


"This decision that I reached was not based solely on this season. Anytime you go through a situation that a coach is being relieved, there is blood on a lot of hands. It starts with myself, there is responsibility with the players and it goes through the organization. Make no mistake, there is responsibility to bear outside of Bob. But when you go through the process, which I have gone through over the course of the last couple weeks, I just felt that at this particular time for us to move forward Bob has taken this team as far as he can take it."

"Each coach has their own style and their own way of doing things. Bob is able to get a lot out of players, but when we sat back and reviewed the season, I felt for us to move forward as an organization it was time, it was important and critical that we made this decision. I wish him nothing but the best."

[killer_carlson]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

It is the #1 reason but far from the only reason. Did you hear the press conference? Treliving owned the goalie problem, said it was his fault. But he had a problem with the way the team played in front of the goalies. It is for this reason Hartley is fired.

You seem to be tunnel visioning on the goalies and ignoring the defensive zone play, special teams and lack of possession. You aren't judging Hartley on his entire body of work this year. And then you want to fire the GM who has an amazing record in trades so far?

This thread is dumb. And that's putting it nicely. I liked Hartley, I thought he'd return. But you have put the blinders over your eyes if you don't see this is about something far greater than our goalies this year.

No, i didn't see the press conference. I couldn't stream it at the office.

And if you look at my position throughout the thread - from the initial post - it's that the GM probably doesn't deserve to be fired, but neither does the coach.

And i'm also evaluating the GM on trades not made as well as trades that were made. There was no move made to address the goaltending. That's part of the GM assessment as well.

As far as the coach goes, if we're evaluating the entire body of work, let's also include the career years for Gaudreau, Brodie, Backlund, Hamilton, Colborne, and another great year from Monahan. Giordano started slow and picked it up as the season progressed. Top 10 in offence notwithstanding a weak powerplay for most of the season. Penalty killing was poor, but that goes back to the goalies having poor seasons.

I can make as many arguments in favour of keeping Hartley as you can about the wonderful things Treliving has done.

Neither deserves to be fired. Both should get 1 more year.

[dino7c]

It is all on the GM in the end...that is probably why he wants to hire a coach and not just go with the one he inherited