Murray Edwards Changes Residency from Calgary to London

[OMG!WTF!]

This seems to clarify some of the tax questions...

http://business.financialpost.com/fp...murray-edwards

Looks like it costs $250 to cut and paste from Post articles now. But what stands out is that Canada is now one of the highest tax jurisdictions for wealthy people at 53%. Only Sweden, Denmark, and France are higher in the western world. Great Britain has a special "non-domicile" tax rate, close to 0%, specifically for rich ex pats and it works....lots of rich people move there for that reason. Edwards was looking at a 20% increase in income tax, 23% increase in capital gains and a 50% increase in dividend taxes so he left. Not a real head scratcher.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

This seems to clarify some of the tax questions...

http://business.financialpost.com/fp...murray-edwards

Looks like it costs $250 to cut and paste from Post articles now. But what stands out is that Canada is now one of the highest tax jurisdictions for wealthy people at 53%. Only Sweden, Denmark, and France are higher in the western world. Great Britain has a special "non-domicile" tax rate, close to 0%, specifically for rich ex pats and it works....lots of rich people move there for that reason. Edwards was looking at a 20% increase in income tax, 23% increase in capital gains and a 50% increase in dividend taxes so he left. Not a real head scratcher.

Wikipedia tells me the UK's top marginal tax rate is 60%. So whatever their special policy is for rich immigrants, they tax their own rich at a higher rate than Canada does.

And France's highest rate is 75%, Belgium's is 64%, Finland is 62%, Netherlands is 56%, and the U.S. is 56%. It's also worth noting that all of those countries, with the exception of the U.S., have a VAT (sales tax) of 15-25 per cent.

Anyone who thinks Canada has a high tax regime is clueless.

List of countries by tax rates

[Resolute 14]

France's highest rate was 75%, but that supertax was dropped last year after it was discovered the rate caused more problems than it solved. Notably and relevantly: high earners were abandoning the country. Also, that rate was achieved at €1 million in income, not $200,000 like the top federal tax bracket in Canada. Near as I can tell, the highest federal tax bracket in France is now 45%, on income over about €152,000.

Not saying your argument is wrong, Cliff. But you are presenting a simplistic view, and in one case, over a year out of date.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Wikipedia tells me the UK's top marginal tax rate is 60%. So whatever their special policy is for rich immigrants, they tax their own rich at a higher rate than Canada does.

And France's highest rate is 75%, Belgium's is 64%, Finland is 62%, Netherlands is 56%, and the U.S. is 56%. It's also worth noting that all of those countries, with the exception of the U.S., have a VAT (sales tax) of 15-25 per cent.

Anyone who thinks Canada has a high tax regime is clueless.

List of countries by tax rates

I'm not sharp on this at all but it seems when you look at income tax only, Canada is now one of the very highest at 53%...higher than GB a 50%. And higher than all but a couple western nations. Of course you need to compare other taxes, what you get for taxes and other costs of living etc. But all the lists I can see put us squarely at the top.

[Locke]

And the important note is that our 'top-end' is comparatively low.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

...
Anyone who thinks Canada has a high tax regime is clueless. ...

I always assume that there is rhyme and reason in these transactions. I once met an immigration lawyer out of Toronto assisting people in gaining citizenship in other countries based on the objectives they have (financial, tax, family,travel convenience, property security etc.). For example, to become a citizen of Malta, which opens some different doors to EU for North Americans, would cost approximately $250,000. People that pay this amount have much more at stake, I presume. People like Edwards have hundreds of millions more at stake. They use teams of professionals - tax lawyers, immigration lawyers, accountants and bankers on both sides of the border - to calculate and model the savings for them. Do you seriously have any doubts he is doing it for huge tax savings?

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

I always assume that there is rhyme and reason in these transactions. I once met an immigration lawyer out of Toronto assisting people in gaining citizenship in other countries based on the objectives they have (financial, tax, family,travel convenience, property security etc.). For example, to become a citizen of Malta, which opens some different doors to EU for North Americans, would cost approximately $250,000. People that pay this amount have much more at stake, I presume. People like Edwards have hundreds of millions more at stake. They use teams of professionals - tax lawyers, immigration lawyers, accountants and bankers on both sides of the border - to calculate and model the savings for them. Do you seriously have any doubts he is doing it for huge tax savings?

I doubt it 100% and I think it's asinine to view it any other way.

He is rich enough to live anywhere in the world in absolute lavish comfort. He's going to live where he can enjoy life the most. Right now it's London. Maybe in a few years it'll be Hawaii. If he's moving to save a few bucks in taxes - which, by the way, will be immaterial relative to his net worth - then it's hilarious.

You guys really think he'd stay in Calgary if only we'd let him keep his billions, but instead he has to flee the country and live in the second-rate city of London? This is beyond stupid.

[Resolute 14]

Why yes, Sliver. It was obviously just a total coincidence that Edwards chose to leave, after spending decades in Calgary, right at the same time both levels of government massively jacked his tax burden. No correlation at all.

[Sliver]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Why yes, Sliver. It was obviously just a total coincidence that Edwards chose to leave, after spending decades in Calgary, right at the same time both levels of government massively jacked his tax burden. No correlation at all.

Yeah, I've never known any old guy to leave Calgary after they're done their career here. This is totally weird and new. Most wealthy people love kicking it here in the winters. Hanging out at Market Mall. Checking out the Glenbow. Sounds like a dream retirement.

He could easily afford to live in Calgary if he wanted to live in Calgary. If he wanted to live somewhere else and he could benefit financially from doing so, then no wonder he is leaving. Pretty sure he's not up at night thinking about how much he'd love to be cruising down MacLeod Trail with his windows down and his system up, if only it wasn't such an expensive town for a poor little rich boy!

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

I always assume that there is rhyme and reason in these transactions. I once met an immigration lawyer out of Toronto assisting people in gaining citizenship in other countries based on the objectives they have (financial, tax, family,travel convenience, property security etc.). For example, to become a citizen of Malta, which opens some different doors to EU for North Americans, would cost approximately $250,000. People that pay this amount have much more at stake, I presume. People like Edwards have hundreds of millions more at stake. They use teams of professionals - tax lawyers, immigration lawyers, accountants and bankers on both sides of the border - to calculate and model the savings for them. Do you seriously have any doubts he is doing it for huge tax savings?

Newsflash: wealthy people move all the time. Just like non-wealthy people.

I'm sure he will save some money on the deal. Good for him. Apparently the UK has it set up like that.

Trying to paint this as "business tycoon flees country because NDP and Justin", which seems to be your goal, isn't really taking hold.

Unless you know the guy, and that's what he told you. If not, you are just speculating about a stranger and why he might be moving.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

...
Trying to paint this as "business tycoon flees country because NDP and Justin", which seems to be your goal...

That's exactly what I am thinking, yes. And a lot of people agree, actually.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yeah, I've never known any old guy to leave Calgary after they're done their career here. This is totally weird and new. Most wealthy people love kicking it here in the winters. Hanging out at Market Mall. Checking out the Glenbow. Sounds like a dream retirement.

He could easily afford to live in Calgary if he wanted to live in Calgary. If he wanted to live somewhere else and he could benefit financially from doing so, then no wonder he is leaving. Pretty sure he's not up at night thinking about how much he'd love to be cruising down MacLeod Trail with his windows down and his system up, if only it wasn't such an expensive town for a poor little rich boy!

Murray retired?

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

That's exactly what I am thinking, yes. And a lot of people agree, actually.

A buddy of mine moved to London a few years ago. Why? I mean, since you have an inside track on why strangers move and all, I figure you can nail this one.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Sliver

I doubt it 100% and I think it's asinine to view it any other way.

He is rich enough to live anywhere in the world in absolute lavish comfort. He's going to live where he can enjoy life the most. Right now it's London. Maybe in a few years it'll be Hawaii. If he's moving to save a few bucks in taxes - which, by the way, will be immaterial relative to his net worth - then it's hilarious.

You guys really think he'd stay in Calgary if only we'd let him keep his billions, but instead he has to flee the country and live in the second-rate city of London? This is beyond stupid.

So you think that it is also just a total fluke that Great Britain is also by far and away the most popular place for high net worth immigration?

http://www.businessinsider.com/which...move-to-2015-3

As a destination, the UK far outpaced every other country, with more than 114,000 HNWIs migrating there during the 10-year period.

114k high net worth people immigrated to jolly ole in a ten year period...the next closest is 42k. So by total and complete fluke Murray Edwards just happened to pick this spot. That dude is just so bloody lucky with money.

[Ozy_Flame]

I had a friend who wanted to backpack for a year abroad go to Australia. He insisted it was so he can have a gap year before he starts his career, but we all know it was because it was a tax haven and he was trying to escape the NDP.

[Resolute 14]

The question is not whether all the tax increases will drive people like Murray out of the country. The question is whether the increases drive enough people like Murray out of the country to create issues for us. You guys would be much better off arguing Murray could be an outlier rather than pretending the new taxes aren't the dominating theme in this particular case.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

So you think that it is also just a total fluke that Great Britain is also by far and away the most popular place for high net worth immigration?

http://www.businessinsider.com/which...move-to-2015-3

114k high net worth people immigrated to jolly ole in a ten year period...the next closest is 42k. So by total and complete fluke Murray Edwards just happened to pick this spot. That dude is just so bloody lucky with money.

I don't know that anyone thinks it's a fluke. I'm sure the guy didn't throw a dart at a map.

I also don't think all the Chinese high-rollers who move there do so because of the NDP and Justin Trudeau.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Sliver

Yeah, I've never known any old guy to leave Calgary after they're done their career here. This is totally weird and new. Most wealthy people love kicking it here in the winters. Hanging out at Market Mall. Checking out the Glenbow. Sounds like a dream retirement.

He could easily afford to live in Calgary if he wanted to live in Calgary. If he wanted to live somewhere else and he could benefit financially from doing so, then no wonder he is leaving. Pretty sure he's not up at night thinking about how much he'd love to be cruising down MacLeod Trail with his windows down and his system up, if only it wasn't such an expensive town for a poor little rich boy!

A) Murray is 56, hardly an old man and not really comparable to the 70 year olds who flee to Phoenix or Palm Springs.

B) The bolded. Aren't you arguing that the finances have nothing to do with it?

Fact is, Edwards can spend plenty of time in London without changing his residency. How much time do you think he's going to spend there vs here? Seeing as the company he runs is based here, I'm thinking he will spend the exact amount of time in London as he has to in order to be a resident in the eyes of the law, and that's about it.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I don't know that anyone thinks it's a fluke. I'm sure the guy didn't throw a dart at a map.

I also don't think all the Chinese high-rollers who move there do so because of the NDP and Justin Trudeau.

Also pretty sure his dad was from London.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by RougeUnderoos

I don't know that anyone thinks it's a fluke. I'm sure the guy didn't throw a dart at a map.

I also don't think all the Chinese high-rollers who move there do so because of the NDP and Justin Trudeau.

Sliver 100% doubts Edwards is moving to save on taxes. Lots of people here have doubted the move is tax related. Why would people who live in China worry about out taxes? You confused?