[PGT] Flames lose 2-1 to Bruins

[Sylvanfan]

As much as winning only hurts the draft odds. It's really disappointing to see the Flames being this awful. No way I would have thought at the start of the year that this would be the worst Flames team ever. Like worse than the 99-00 team that KevanGuy paid money to watch.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

His adjusted save percentage and save percentage are woese than Hiller's. He was terrible on the AHL too this year, last year was mediocre. If we only eliminate the bad things he had a good ahl season two years ago and a few great performances mixed in the NHL. Why should we eliminate all the bad parts? He's 25 this April, so while there's some room for improvement, it's a pretty big gamble to suggest he's going to be an NHL goalie.

I respect your opinion but I disagree. The fact that he has a .500 quality start percentage weighs over his save percentage to me. Maybe that maxes him out as a 20 game backup next year but it shows me that he's been better or at least more consistently good for us than Hiller. When he's bad, specifically the Montreal Game, it doesn't matter if he had a .600 or a .300 save percentage. That one game shouldn't be allowed to skew the fact that he's given this team a chance often before they fell apart in front of him.

...Hiller has a .350 quality start percentage.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by LanceUppercut

If Ortio continues to play even remotely well, I'll predict that he will be the backup next year. Treliving is going to go out and find a #1 goalie.

They would love to find a #1 goaltender but as the Oilers have found out if he's not already in your organization you are going to have to reach to backups and prospect in other organizations. If they can get a legit guy like say Ben Bishop it's possible they go with an unproven backup but their other options in Reimer, Ward, etc are not guys you can say with certainty will be able to run with it so they will look to add a backup with plenty of experience. I'm not too worried about who they get as I know Treliving will leave no stone unturned but ultimately he's at the mercy of other teams when it comes to trading for a goaltender.

[Freeway]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

His adjusted save percentage and save percentage are woese than Hiller's. He was terrible on the AHL too this year, last year was mediocre. If we only eliminate the bad things he had a good ahl season two years ago and a few great performances mixed in the NHL. Why should we eliminate all the bad parts? He's 25 this April, so while there's some room for improvement, it's a pretty big gamble to suggest he's going to be an NHL goalie.

2015-16: (if he qualified for leaderboard), 41st in save percentage
2014-15: 31st in save percentage
2013-14: 2nd in save percentage

[ComixZone]

Since Ramo went down, Ortio's starts have been impressive:

CGY @ BOS: .920, 2GA
OTT @ CGY: .800, 5GA
NYI @ CGY: .941, 2GA
CGY @ LAK: .946, 2GA

If you look past the Ottawa game, which I still don't pin on Ortio's goaltending as the weak point of that game - he has put together a very strong stretch of starts, and deserves the opportunity to continue to play this year in hopes of a contract next year.

If Ortio was getting ANY goal support, he'd 3-1-0 over the last 4 games.

Ignore that Ottawa game - Ortio has a .936 S% and a 2.00 GAA in the 3 other starts.

We'll see how he does over this next little stretch, but 3 very good games should not be thrown out the window because of 1 rough game where his team fell apart in front of him.

[Stanley]

I'm really curious to see what Backstrom's got left in the tank...who knows, he could be a pleasant surprise despite his age and injury woes...

[polak]

Yeah, run with Ortio and see what he has left. He's playing for his career at this point but don't judge him on stats, as this team is god awful and very much in the conversation for the worst in the league. Judge him on the eye test. Eye test is pretty reliable for goalies.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

As much as winning only hurts the draft odds. It's really disappointing to see the Flames being this awful. No way I would have thought at the start of the year that this would be the worst Flames team ever. Like worse than the 99-00 team that KevanGuy paid money to watch.

Regression was always a possibility after a lot went their way the season before. As bad as they have been it's kind of been par for the course since Hartley took over as after four seasons the playoff year seems to be the aberration as they have finished 26, 27, 16, 28 est. Now part of the low placing in the standings is due to lacking talent but I feel the coaching staff should feel pretty lucky if they get another opportunity next season as this kind of performance over a four year period typically results in a coaching change.

[IliketoPuck]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Since Ramo went down, Ortio's starts have been impressive:

CGY @ BOS: .920, 2GA
OTT @ CGY: .800, 5GA
NYI @ CGY: .941, 2GA
CGY @ LAK: .946, 2GA

If you look past the Ottawa game, which I still don't pin on Ortio's goaltending as the weak point of that game - he has put together a very strong stretch of starts, and deserves the opportunity to continue to play this year in hopes of a contract next year.

If Ortio was getting ANY goal support, he'd 3-1-0 over the last 4 games.

Ignore that Ottawa game - Ortio has a .936 S% and a 2.00 GAA in the 3 other starts.

We'll see how he does over this next little stretch, but 3 very good games should not be thrown out the window because of 1 rough game where his team fell apart in front of him.

Precisely why we need to be playing Hiller right now.

Never underestimate the Oilers when it comes to tanking, they are world champs. We need all hands on deck right now.

[Toonage]

Hypothetical: You're Treliving. The Flames pick in the top 3. Either they get Matthews or one of the Fins. Do you turn around and try trading a package including your 2017 1st to Pittsburgh for Murray?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Toonage

Hypothetical: You're Treliving. The Flames pick in the top 3. Either they get Matthews or one of the Fins. Do you turn around and try trading a package including your 2017 1st to Pittsburgh for Murray?

It would have to be lottery protected. Not sure Murray is worth a 1st let alone a "package".

So yeah, probably wouldn't do it.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Stanley

I'm really curious to see what Backstrom's got left in the tank...who knows, he could be a pleasant surprise despite his age and injury woes...

I don't believe there is any chance that Backstrom will ever factor into the Flames' plans after the season. He could end up playing great, and I am quite confident that they will not re-sign him if for no other reason than that he is already 38-years-old. His playing time is in satisfaction of his agreement to waive his NTC and nothing more. Anything he does in the next 40 days is unto his own benefit as a pending UFA who may pursue another NHL contract but with another NHL team.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Nope. Very good chance he's done.

Ortio is a pending RFA. He will be qualified and will at minimum play out his contract up to UFA. I'm less confident after this season in his future as a NHL goalie than I was last year, but I think there is almost no chance that the Flames just let him go.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

His adjusted save percentage and save percentage are woese than Hiller's. He was terrible on the AHL too this year, last year was mediocre. If we only eliminate the bad things he had a good ahl season two years ago and a few great performances mixed in the NHL. Why should we eliminate all the bad parts? He's 25 this April, so while there's some room for improvement, it's a pretty big gamble to suggest he's going to be an NHL goalie.

For a usually rational poster - you sure seem to have it out for Ortio.

I don't think he's any great shakes or anything. But I'd rather have a cheap back-up than an expensive one if they are going to be bad.

Find a starter, have Ortio/Poulin battle for the back-up spot. Have Gillis start in the AHL with the Ortio/Poulin loser as back-up and McDonald in the ECHL.

I'd rather have Gillis spend the full year in the AHL than have to yank him up to sit on the bench whenever you get an injury in the NHL because you have no goalie depth.

[nemanja2306]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

First of all the head coach is not a fan. 2nd of all management has been extremely disappointed by the performance of the goaltenders and their top offseason focus is improving in this area and there is slim to no chance they bring back Ortio to be the backup (Ramo and Hiller will not be back) next season. After seeing an entire season derailed in the first two months of the season due largely to goaltending they are going to take absolutely no chances on a repeat situation so unless they can pry Bishop away from TB you should expect most likely Reimer and an experienced 1B/backup in a situation not much different from year one of Hiller/Ramo (before they were both terrible) where they will run with the hot goaltender if they need to.

Now if Ortio is lights out over the stretch drive that may change things but so far he's been good but not really good and I believe he needs to be really good for them to take a chance on him.

So, what, he needs to score goals as well? Based on his performance, he should have 3 wins in his last 4 starts but the rest of the team is playing like garbage and can't score if their life depended on it.

Ortio is still. relatively young. Kipper was like 27 when we got him.

I truly believe that what he needs the most is confidence and trust from Hartley. He plays bad, gets benched. Hiller plays bad, gets another start...

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Gaudfather

I think this three goalie setup is just a recipe for disaster again, even over the last 20 games of the season.

What are the chances that the Flames put Hiller on waivers, and then send him down to Stockton?

This then leaves Backstrom to perhaps act as a bit of a mentor to Ortio over the last 20 games, as well as picking up perhaps 2-3 games himself. I sense that being a fellow Finn, he may make a better tandem with Ortio than Hiller.

I don't think it is a disaster any longer - chances for playoffs are long gone. Also, I doubt that they start 3 goalies. No single goalie is going to start 100% of the time from here on out. There will be two - and I imagine Ortio will be getting the bulk of the time as it makes the most organizational sense at this point. I would suspect that Backstrom gets a shot (or at least the next time Calgary travels to Minnesota).

I think it is between Hiller and Backstrom to get into the games that Ortio will not be starting in, and I guess it really depends on how game-shape Backstrom is and how he does in his first start (if any). This season is done at this point - 2 goalies or 10 - it means little now IMO.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I don't believe there is any chance that Backstrom will ever factor into the Flames' plans after the season. He could end up playing great, and I am quite confident that they will not re-sign him if for no other reason than that he is already 38-years-old. His playing time is in satisfaction of his agreement to waive his NTC and nothing more. Anything he does in the next 40 days is unto his own benefit as a pending UFA who may pursue another NHL contract but with another NHL team.

I would 99% agree here, with the caveat that the Flames probably do want to see how good (or bad) Backstrom is, just to ensure they keep all their options open in case nothing of note transpires in the off-season. A one year stop-gap may (unfortunately) be the best option if any of the UFA goalies decide to sign elsewhere, and if the teams willing to part with a goalie demand too high of a cost asset-wise.

Definitely not campaigning for a Backstrom re-signing here. Just think the Flames will explore all avenues, and that Backstrom will probably get a start or two at least from now until the end of the season.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by nemanja2306

...I truly believe that what he needs the most is confidence and trust from Hartley. He plays bad, gets benched. Hiller plays bad, gets another start...

I think that the coaching staff's handling of Ortio could be related to perceived conditioning and possibly attitude problems in training camp and the early part of the season. Didn't he refuse an AHL conditioning stint at the beginning of the season? It would go a long way to explaining why his leash has looked shorter than Hiller's. Moreover, Ortio seems to have a tendency for slow starts, and I wonder if these factors have contributed significantly to the coaches' confidence in him overall. If this is the case then hopefully he has learned a lot from this season, and ends up having a much better showing in TC next fall than he did this year. If he does, then I would also expect this to translate in a higher level of confidence from the coaching staff.

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by polak

Last year was mediocre? He was an AHL all star. Yes his stats this year are terrible. He had a terrible start being thrown to the wolves thanks to Trelivings 3 headed mistake which would destroy any tenders confidence. I'd call this year an aberration and in my eyes, he has completely erased that start (like Ramo) since being called up again.

Man, three or four bad games during a time when Patrick Roy couldn't save this team and we're ready to write off an AHL All Star tender who has been great in the NHL outside of that bad stretch.

I'm going bookmark this post for when he goes all Kiprusoff and makes the Flames look stupid. Also Hartley's opinion of players should matter very little to you as a fan trying to judge players given his line up choices.

Just look at Ortios career stats versus Kiprusoff. Kipper went below .9 once, had a career .92 in the NHL. Ortio has had 4 years below .9 and an NHL average of .899

What possible logic can correlate the two? Their career stats and performances are nothing alike.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

I just don't get why we're burning out Gio-Brodie? The season is toast, how about scale back their minutes to decrease a chance of a major injury?

The 3rd pairing is playing about 10-11 minutes, take away 5 minutes from the top pair and give it to 3rd pair.

24 mins for top pair
20 mins for 2nd pair
16 mins for 3rd pair (put these guys in a bit of tough situation to see how they respond)

Don't care about this season but need Gio-Brodie healthy for next year. I really dont like Hartley's madness.

Yeah, Treliving needs to tell Hartley to take it easy on Giordano, doesn't he realize he has 6 more years left on his contract.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

For a usually rational poster - you sure seem to have it out for Ortio.

I don't think he's any great shakes or anything. But I'd rather have a cheap back-up than an expensive one if they are going to be bad.

Find a starter, have Ortio/Poulin battle for the back-up spot. Have Gillis start in the AHL with the Ortio/Poulin loser as back-up and McDonald in the ECHL.

I'd rather have Gillis spend the full year in the AHL than have to yank him up to sit on the bench whenever you get an injury in the NHL because you have no goalie depth.

I don't mind this solution, I just find it odd that a goalie like Ortio is looked at like there's a great future here. He could be a short stop gap I guess, as we'll need a warm body. I agree Gillies shouldn't be in the NHL.