[PGT] Free Fallin' for Forty Days: PHI 5 - CGY 3

[neo45]

The team also needs a face off ace for key situations, and to trim about 10 million of dead weight off the roster. I imagine buyouts or retained salary trades are coming for Raymond, Wideman, Stajan, and Smid if he is healthy.

Keep our first round pick and trade our 2nds and some prospects for a young goalie and Travis Hamonic. Sign a veteran backup to bring stability.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by saillias

Why not? We don't need to waste another full year of our young core's prime with a poor coach. The change should be made this off-season.

The question is how soon do you want them to move from bottom 5 to the 10-15 spot which is no-man's land in regards to finding sure-fire franchise players? We know Hartley will very likely deliver a top 6 or better pick as after this season he will have delivered that three times in his four seasons as Flames head coach. Chances are very good that in year five he will deliver another high draft pick and coincidentally it makes the best time to fire him with only a year left on his deal. The team will likely ice a less talented team next season with guys like Hudler and Russell not being immediately replaced. Sure a couple of young players may surprise but a better coach likely still only gets the team out of the bottom five but not a playoff team. May as well take your lumps with Hartley one more season to get a better first round pick IMO.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I fail to understand all this angst at the moment.

Yes, this team 'sucks'. Yes, they are one of the worst teams in the league this year.

IIRC, this is a rebuild. I sometimes have to stop and think with reading some posters opinions. They either expect this team to be a playoff team, or they are fed up and 'couldn't care less' about anything and have given up on the team.

Both sides are absolutely silly, IMO.

This is what a rebuild is. I thought that last season the Flames would bottom out, and then start their rise. Now, this is what I think of a rebuild.

Season 1 - the pre-rebuild. This is when we had Iginla. We traded him, fell apart, and picked up Monahan. Lockout shortened season, and it was fine.

Season 2 - Flames finished 4th worst - but IIRC, they were closer to 8th place than last place. Hardly a 'bad season' for a rebuilding squad. They were a treat to watch for the most part, regardless of how poor they finished in the standings. Picked up Bennett at the draft.

Season 3 - Flames finished in the playoffs in an incredibly spectacular season. This is the season I predicted bottoming-out. Made it all the way to the 2nd round of the playoffs. Hartley wins the Jack Adams - and definitely deserved it considering what the expectations were, and the personnel on the team. Flames picked up Hamilton via trade on draft day.

Season 4 - this is where the Flames 'should' have started climbing up again. Not competing, but climbing out of the bottom 5 or so. Seems they had a year or two in a bit of a mix-up - looks like they are bottoming-out this year. I expect a really good add.

Season 5 - that is when - if things go well - that you start making a push for the playoffs. Following seasons SHOULD see the team become a playoff team, and then a 'perennial playoff team', and then hopefully into 'bona fide contender', and then with a whole lot of luck - champs.

The Flames' success last year came back to bite them in the butt with the fanbase here. Extremely fickle. This is a rebuild - something that the fans were not just wanting, but DEMANDING. With the Flames having their first 'terrible' season, everyone is demanding other things. You don't speed this thing along. You don't fire the coach who managed to squeeze blood from a stone. You don't trade youth to try and plug the holes and push this team forward (including goalies). You simply build.

Now, what are people upset about? That we will become the Oilers? Fat chance. Not going to happen. Oilers have a poorly built team. One look at how the Flames are building, and that is not an issue. They have depth in every position organizationally other than RW, and a competent NHL goalie for today (and next season) - but that is why this team is still rebuilding.

Treliving just unloaded 3 veteran guys for futures - prospects and picks. This team is looking to be drafting at least in the top 5 or 6 (if the lottery goes badly) - and there are some very attractive prospects that will further help the rebuild.

So the Flames aren't playing a strong game these days. That's ok - this is a REBUILD. If they were playing well, they would be out of the rebuild. Last season was an aberration of what a rebuild should look like. Heck, every single season up until this one has been an aberration of what a rebuild looks like. This is the only 'painful' season thus far, and people are already fed up?

No wonder Dim Jim and the Aquillinis are looking like they want to avoid a rebuild at all costs. We don't have to be gullible minions handing over top dollar year after year after year like they do up in Edmonton, but we also don't have to give up and LOUDLY complain that this team sucks at the first sign of tough times. Tough times is part of the package when a team decides to rebuild, and this is why GMs - especially in Canada where the heat is on - try to avoid rebuilds altogether, or try to artificially speed up the process.

I know this rebuild will succeed because Treliving is unflinching. He isn't making knee-jerk reactions to appease the fans, or make it look like the expectations aren't being met. He knows what kind of players this team has, and what kind of players a team needs more of to win. He is fully aware of the shortfalls - and this is why he sold this year just like everyone assumed he would.

This team is playing like a rebuilding team. Some really nice pieces that are fun to watch. Some really wild games at times. Poor defensive structure at times where it seems everyone is running around with their heads chopped off or up their butts, but that is what a rebuild looks like.

I myself don't focus on the standings. I focus on what I see on the ice - how the young players are developing, and how the vets are helping them learn the NHL craft. I have to say, I can't complain much. This is better than I thought it would be. It is still a fun team to watch - annoying a times? Of course - it is a rebuilding team! Hugely annoying with terrible breakdowns and WTF moments.

Last year was an aberration. Luck. Things coming together in a perfect storm. Lightning in a bottle. It was fun and a great experience for us as fans, and definitely a huge learning experience for the players as well. Hopefully they will be a step closer to the playoffs next season. If not, then I would expect them in the playoffs the season after. If not, that is when I start 'losing it' as a fan. Last year was fun - but it almost set us back with expectations.

As for the game last night - it wasn't horrible. People are complaining about Engelland? Really? I absolutely loved Engelland last night - he was a force who continuously stuck up for his team when things got chippy. He was constantly challenging them and in their face. I think this is exactly the player that Burke and Treliving were hoping for when he was acquired. He was angry. That was a fairly chippy game.

Yeah, some poor defensive zone coverage and a poor goalie cost us the game (again), but this is a rebuild. I was more interested to see the push-back. How the team would respond when they got into a hole. At least they showed some fight - both with their "chippiness" and on the scoreboard. It is a team that doesn't accept losing still, and that to me is what is important.

They have been a losing team (outside of last season) more often than not, yet they are a team that is not accepting losses. I love Hartley for that, and the entire culture on the team for it. This team simply doesn't have enough horses nor enough experience to be a good team yet. Rebuilds take time and patience, and I just get stunned with some posters who are so adamant that big changes need to happen because the team 'sucks now'. This is a rebuild - rebuilding teams suck. Calgary is like Ottawa which was like Colorado and which is like Arizona - some moments of 'sunshine' in a rebuild putting on higher expectations.

Oilers have never had a single good season in their rebuild - that is a huge difference. I guess in retrospect, perhaps a rebuild includes an early playoff season followed by missing again and falling in the standings to the basement, and then finally rising up? Let's see where this takes us. All I know is that it is too early in this thing for people to expect too much now - and if you did, perhaps it is time to re-examine some expectations based on the quality and age of the players on this team. They are not ready to be challenging yet, and you just have to show patience.

Just my rant...

[neo45]

I think the fan base has handled this season extremely well personally. Especially given the economic landscape. The dome has had a very good atmosphere all year and the buzz around the team is very positive considering our spot in the standings

[Inglewood Jack]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

We know Hartley will very likely deliver a top 6 or better pick as after this season he will have delivered that three times in his four seasons as Flames head coach. Chances are very good that in year five he will deliver another high draft pick and coincidentally it makes the best time to fire him with only a year left on his deal.

I understand this strategy, as brutally cynical as it is, but how much longer do you want to expose our young players to his broken systems and strategies? giving up the neutral zone like a bunch of frightened rabbits? collapsing towards the goalie too early and attempting to block all shots instead of trying to get the puck back? firing stretch pass after failed stretch pass? desperately putting lines in a blender and not allowing linemate chemistry to form? and most of all, overplaying roster favorites in positions where they do nothing but fail?

we've seen clear evidence up north that once bad habits are formed, they can be exceedingly difficult to break. I'm worried that by the time the new coach does come in, it will take a whole season or more just to reprogram the team to play modern NHL hockey.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Inglewood Jack

I understand this strategy, as brutally cynical as it is, but how much longer do you want to expose our young players to his broken systems and strategies? giving up the neutral zone like a bunch of frightened rabbits? collapsing towards the goalie too early and attempting to block all shots instead of trying to get the puck back? firing stretch pass after failed stretch pass? desperately putting lines in a blender and not allowing linemate chemistry to form? and most of all, overplaying roster favorites in positions where they do nothing but fail?

we've seen clear evidence up north that once bad habits are formed, they can be exceedingly difficult to break. I'm worried that by the time the new coach does come in, it will take a whole season or more just to reprogram the team to play modern NHL hockey.

That's a management call. It's not a given that Hartley and his staff will be back next season but I just have that feeling they are going to bring him back if only because ownership isn't keen on eating the last two years of his deal.

[AcGold]

The stretch passes, blocking shots and playing soft in the neutral zone revolves around having the worst goalies in the league.

Stretch pass you gotta keep North South

Blocking shots because Hiller is apt to let in anything

Dmen can't provide support in the neutral zone as they have to stay back

We can't properly judge an NHL coach in a game of small advantages when we have the worst goalies, it's the most important position. How the goalie goes the team will follow regardless of coaches and strategies.