Man who beheaded fellow bus passenger wants to live on his own

[Puddy27]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

You have literally no idea what you're talking about.



Are you a doctor? Or just some guy handing out meds?

No I'm not. I was being facetious if you didn't understand. I do have a lot of training in the area though. I don't pretend to be more than I am in regards to education which is also a crock for the most part. I literally just work with people suffering with this illness every day and am just providing information I've gathered from the clients themselves and from my own daily observation.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

How is giving an innocent person the possibility to rebuild his life the same as bringing back the death penalty? Most rational people would see these as polar opposite of a society. One is about punishing, pure and simple, and the other is rehabilitating. One is about taking the life of a person, the other is about trying to give it back.

Explain it because, and I don't mean to be rude, but that has to be one of the most stupid leaps in logic I have ever heard.

Honest question, but from a legal definition, are "innocent" and "not criminally responsible" used interchangeably?

I admit it, have have trouble considering him "innocent" even if I agree that it's up to the experts to decide if he is actually criminally responsible.

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

How is giving an innocent person the possibility to rebuild his life the same as bringing back the death penalty? Most rational people would see these as polar opposite of a society. One is about punishing, pure and simple, and the other is rehabilitating. One is about taking the life of a person, the other is about trying to give it back.

Explain it because, and I don't mean to be rude, but that has to be one of the most stupid leaps in logic I have ever heard.

Its obvious that you are fixated on the death penalty topic, I will not engage you on that any further as you clearly cant understand what I was saying.

And FYI, anytime someone prefaces a comment with "I dont mean to be"....its just a prelude for them to be exactly what they "dont mean to be".

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Honest question, but from a legal definition, are "innocent" and "not criminally responsible" used interchangeably?

I admit it, have have trouble considering him "innocent" even if I agree that it's up to the experts to decide if he is actually criminally responsible.

We live in a society where we presume innocence. The court doesn't rule on whether someone was innocent, they will find them not-guilty or not criminally responsible. It's semantics, but he was never found guilty of a crime.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Puddy27

No I'm not. I was being facetious if you didn't understand. I do have a lot of training in the area though. I don't pretend to be more than I am in regards to education which is also a crock for the most part. I literally just work with people suffering with this illness every day and am just providing information I've gathered from the clients themselves and from my own daily observation.

That's literally the worst way to get information. Go read something on the topic. Go figure out what people studying it have discovered. Your observations are so completely without merit without a balance of information. That's how you wind up thinking radical islam is the real enemy.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by greyshep

Its obvious that you are fixated on the death penalty topic, I will not engage you on that any further as you clearly cant understand what I was saying.

Well yeah, no #### I am fixated on the death penalty topic. It's because that's all your post was about:

Originally Posted by greyshep

Isnt that kinda like saying we should bring back the death penalty because the instances of killing an innocent man are near zero??

Remove the death penalty from that post and you have nothing left. So I think we can safely assume your asinine "argument" had not been really thought out.

And my first post to yours was polite, all things considered, you were the one who felt the need to say "If you cant understand that, I guess we shouldnt bother proceeding further." instead of actually discussing on a discussion board.

[greyshep]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Well yeah, no #### I am fixated on the death penalty topic. It's because that's all your post was about:



Remove the death penalty from that post and you have nothing left. So I think we can safely assume your asinine "argument" had not been really thought out.

And my first post to yours was polite, all things considered, you were the one who felt the need to say "If you cant understand that, I guess we shouldnt bother proceeding further." instead of actually discussing on a discussion board.

Lol. You continue to misinterpret what I was saying. Thats fine you are free to think what you like. I commend you for your passion.

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by greyshep

Lol. You continue to misinterpret what I was saying. Thats fine you are free to think what you like. I commend you for your passion.

Hey, here's an idea. How about you explain what you were saying, explain it's relevance, and the overall point of what you were saying? It's a discussion board, discuss.

I mean, like we could also stop Li from beheading anyone else by beheading everyone else. That would also lead to a zero chance of him re-offending...not sure what the point would be of that though either.

Or maybe I can just finish this by answering your question I guess.

"Isnt that kinda like saying we should bring back the death penalty because the instances of killing an innocent man are near zero??"

No. Releasing a person who is a low-threat to re-offend is not anything like the death penalty.

[Puddy27]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

That's literally the worst way to get information. Go read something on the topic. Go figure out what people studying it have discovered. Your observations are so completely without merit without a balance of information. That's how you wind up thinking radical islam is the real enemy.

I've read a ton on the subject. Reading isn't the same as hearing it straight from the people living with it. Our psychiatrist, who is highly regarded as one of the best in North America admits that the medications people are put on is basically guess work when it comes down to it. But I guess you already knew that seeing as you have a lot to say on the subject. Or wait, you don't really have much to say though do you. Let me ask you....which antipsychotics will help the man that this thread is about in your opinion?

Is it oral medications and if yes, which ones? Is it an injectable and if yes which one? Combo maybe? Let me hear your thoughts on what will help everyone suffering from the illness....I mean it shoukd be easy then since there are lots of books on the subject.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Puddy27

I've read a ton on the subject. Reading isn't the same as hearing it straight from the people living with it. Our psychiatrist, who is highly regarded as one of the best in North America admits that the medications people are put on is basically guess work when it comes down to it. But I guess you already knew that seeing as you have a lot to say on the subject. Or wait, you don't really have much to say though do you. Let me ask you....which antipsychotics will help the man that this thread is about in your opinion?

Is it oral medications and if yes, which ones? Is it an injectable and if yes which one? Combo maybe? Let me hear your thoughts on what will help everyone suffering from the illness....I mean it shoukd be easy then since there are lots of books on the subject.

What exactly is your job and educational background?

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Puddy27

I've read a ton on the subject. Reading isn't the same as hearing it straight from the people living with it. Our psychiatrist, who is highly regarded as one of the best in North America admits that the medications people are put on is basically guess work when it comes down to it. But I guess you already knew that seeing as you have a lot to say on the subject. Or wait, you don't really have much to say though do you. Let me ask you....which antipsychotics will help the man that this thread is about in your opinion?

Is it oral medications and if yes, which ones? Is it an injectable and if yes which one? Combo maybe? Let me hear your thoughts on what will help everyone suffering from the illness....I mean it shoukd be easy then since there are lots of books on the subject.

Your opinion on medication is not what I'm criticizing you about. You said schizophrenia isn't the problem and that the problem is childhood trauma. That's not correct. While there is absolutely a correlation between the two, the problem is most definitely schizophrenia no matter how the brain got there. But since you're the expert on medication, what is Li's medication? Do you have intimate knowledge of his meds and his response to them? What are his prescriptions? Or are your own observations limited to your own world?

[Puddy27]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

What exactly is your job and educational background?

Why does it matter?

Either way, I have a social work background and I work on an Assertive Community Treatment Team. The place where it's the end of the line for services. Nothing else has helped the people we work with and most try and avoid working with them so they get referred to us and then we basically invade their life intrusively until they die, or in the odd case don't need the service anymore.

[Puddy27]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Your opinion on medication is not what I'm criticizing you about. You said schizophrenia isn't the problem and that the problem is childhood trauma. That's not correct. While there is absolutely a correlation between the two, the problem is most definitely schizophrenia no matter how the brain got there. But since you're the expert on medication, what is Li's medication? Do you have intimate knowledge of his meds and his response to them? What are his prescriptions? Or are your own observations limited to your own world?

Obviously I have no clue what he is on. Nor do I really care lol. That's for him and his treatment team to figure out.

[EldrickOnIce]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

Ummmm, seriously?

From the article in the very first post:



He was granted the request last year, and is now requesting an absolute discharge. We've been updated on him yearly. I'm not really sure what more you could want for transparency outside of them personally coming to ask you for your opinion each year...

You could respond to a request for more background information without being an a-hole.
Or not

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by Puddy27

Why does it matter?

Because more or less all your posts in this thread are explicitly resting on a foundation of supposed authority that you've attributed to yourself. Basically, in your own words, your input is credible because you work in this field and see this stuff a lot. Which, okay, that's useful context and a reasonable basis for people to take your perspective as possibly more informed than theirs, but it's pretty obvious why it matters what your job and education are in that case.

[Oling_Roachinen]

So you work with people who's treatment has not been successful. Understandably, you may not have the highest opinion on treatment and medication given your job.

But Vincent Li's treatment has, at least according to the experts evaluating him, been nothing short of a huge success over the last 9 years.

You calling medication a joke and bringing up big pharmacy is like me saying that chemo didn't work on my uncle, so anyone with cancer shouldn't go through with it.

[OMG!WTF!]

Originally Posted by Puddy27

Obviously I have no clue what he is on. Nor do I really care lol. That's for him and his treatment team to figure out.

Your psychiatrist friend says it doesn't matter and that all meds are guess work. So given that you have zero knowledge of what you're talking about in regards to Li, it's obvious that his psychiatrists have a different opinion. Why do you believe your psychiatrist buddy and not the other psychiatrists with intimate knowledge of this case? This is why people with observational knowledge often miss the whole point completely.

[Puddy27]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

So you work with people who's treatment has not been successful. Understandably, you may not have the highest opinion on treatment and medication given your job.

But Vincent Li's treatment has, at least according to the experts evaluating him, been nothing short of a huge success over the last 9 years.

You calling medication a joke and bringing up big pharmacy is like me saying that chemo didn't work on my uncle, so anyone with cancer shouldn't go through with it.

Nope, that's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying pumping people full of medication and expecting miracles is silly. If his treatment is going well then that's great. There are probably a lot of supportive people helping him to rejoin society and they should be commended. It takes more than just the medications was my initial point.

People get too hung up on education around here too. I work with a ton of doctors. Some are great, some are terrible. It's like anything else really. Some people just make these issues out to be so black and white. There are so many variables that it's impossible to tell what will work for people except on an individual basis is all.

[Puddy27]

Originally Posted by OMG!WTF!

Your psychiatrist friend says it doesn't matter and that all meds are guess work. So given that you have zero knowledge of what you're talking about in regards to Li, it's obvious that his psychiatrists have a different opinion. Why do you believe your psychiatrist buddy and not the other psychiatrists with intimate knowledge of this case? This is why people with observational knowledge often miss the whole point completely.

First off, me and the psychiatrist are not buddy's. We are coworkers. Second, they don't know for a fact or if there was a cure or a definite answer then it wouldn't be such an issue but guess what it is. I'm glad Li's team has figured out what works for him for now. Yeesh lol

[DJones]

Originally Posted by GGG

Here is from the Brentwood stabbing thread





So 20 times the murder rate (I said twice earlier in this thread but had misremembered). Again we likely have other population sub groups with a murder rate 20 times the national average.

Thanks, couldn't be bothered to look for the study haha.

Males aged 18-35 probably have a murder rate of 20 times our national average.