Montador's family sues NHL. Claims fighting leads to depression & addiciton

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

Here is a link for everyone to peruse at their convenience.

http://mddirect.org/tag/chronic-trau...ncephalopathy/

The doctor running the clinic can not make a direct connection YET.

Which does not detract a bit from the concerns I have raised, especially in the light of the following conclusion:

"The number of concussions does not correlate with CTE or predict CTE.
However, the severity of CTE is significantly associated with length of exposure in American football, and it is likely that this is a result of the cumulative effects of subconcussive injury."

As I have maintained, the issue is not the individual incidence of concussions, but rather the cumulative effect of repetitive head impacts. It is virtually certain that the promotion of fighting in the NHL significantly contributes to the increase of repetitive head impacts among frequent participants.

You very conveniently ignored my response in post #137 where I explained this, so I will repeat myself here:

Habitual fighting demonstrably increases the risk of developing CTE, which is sustained from suffering repeated head trauma. There is a very strong circumstantial link between fighting in hockey and the incidence of CTE. Would you contest this last statement?

It seems to me that if we are at all concerned about CTE, then an essential preventative measure would target the reduction or elimination of fighting in the NHL.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

As I have maintained, the issue is not the individual incidence of concussions, but rather the cumulative effect of repetitive head impacts. It is virtually certain that the promotion of fighting in the NHL significantly contributes to the increase of repetitive head impacts among frequent participants.

While, compared to other leagues the NHL clearly promotes fighting, wouldn't it be fairly simple to argue that, as fighting has always been a penalty and therefore illegal in the NHL, the NHL does not, and has not ever promoted fighting?

I mean, does the NHL promote slashing? Slashing is only a 2-minute penalty, but I think everyone would agree that the league discourages the action. Fighting is a 5-minute major, in 1992 an instigator was a game misconduct, in 1996 it became 2, 5, and a 10-minute misconduct.

While there is a plethora of evidence supporting the idea that the NHL has promoted fighting in the past, wouldn't simply pointing to the rule book be a relatively easy defense in court?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

See here is the thing. Fighting isn't part of playing hockey.


Fighting does nothing positive in the game.


Fighting is a load of bull####.

Yeah...it really is.

Always has been.

Feel free to find me one single year that the NHL has existed when fighting wasn't part of the game.

[Phanuthier]

^ Agreed. I guess in the promotion videos (therefore, promoted?) but the action is penalized. Sometimes they are suspended, but suspensions are often appealed by the NHLPA - so why isn't the NHLPA getting sued? I've asked this a few times this thread, but there is no reply.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

^ Agreed. I guess in the promotion videos (therefore, promoted?) but the action is penalized. Sometimes they are suspended, but suspensions are often appealed by the NHLPA - so why isn't the NHLPA getting sued? I've asked this a few times this thread, but there is no reply.

There are penalties in ALL contact sports...doesn't make them "illegal" or "not part of the sport". To say so is not only false, its lazy.

It's very simple why the PA has not been sued or ever involved in them, because at that point players would be suing themselves. That would be illogical. Mind you, common sense has never been part of this debate as it is strictly ruled by emotion.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by transplant99

There are penalties in ALL contact sports...doesn't make them "illegal" or "not part of the sport". To say so is not only false, its lazy.

So... the hand-pass is then part of hockey? Or throwing seven skaters on the ice? I get that my argument is a little reducto-ad-absurdum, but isn't making something 'against the rules' exactly what a league should do to indicate that the action is not 'part of the sport?'

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by driveway

So... the hand-pass is then part of hockey? Or throwing seven skaters on the ice? I get that my argument is a little reducto-ad-absurdum, but isn't making something 'against the rules' exactly what a league should do to indicate that the action is not 'part of the sport?'

Patrick Kane kept his current point streak alive with a hand pass game before last. So yeah, its part of the game, though only in your own end.

You can throw 7 skaters on the ice all you like, but you will get caught and penalized for it.

You can also fight, and get penalized for it.

As much as those who want to get it out of the game completely are concerned, the argument that it isn't part of the game is false. The argument that it is a penalty, therefore illegal and not part of the game is also false.

Penalties are part of pro sports, therefore penalties are part of the game.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Phanuthier

...Sometimes they are suspended, but suspensions are often appealed by the NHLPA - so why isn't the NHLPA getting sued? I've asked this a few times this thread, but there is no reply.

Because the Montadors did not include the PA in their suit?

I agree that it would be a good idea for them to be included, but with how the suit has been described they don't really bear any legal culpability, since I don't believe that the PA has any oversight of team medical personnel.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Because the Montadors did not include the PA in their suit?

I agree that it would be a good idea for them to be included, but with how the suit has been described they don't really bear any legal culpability, since I don't believe that the PA has any oversight of team medical personnel.

I really hate to disagree with you on everything in this thread so I apologize up front. The NHLPA has to agree to remove fighting and their constituents refuse to hear of removing fighting, therefore they are also have culpability in this suit. The NHL can not change anything in the game, including something as trivial as division alignment, without the NHLPA input.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Penalties are part of pro sports, therefore penalties are part of the game.

Well now that's just silly. Jumping on a motorcycle to get to first base is a 'penalty' but it's clearly not 'part of the game.'

You can argue that fighting is part of hockey, and I would agree with you, but to argue that all things which are penalties are part of whichever sport in which they are a penalty are therefore part of them is ... well it's just a logical contradiction on its very face.

[AcGold]

Spearing to the groin and suckerpunches are also penalties, not such a good argument. What about Burrows' finger chomping, was that part of the game too?

[PepsiFree]

I think people are getting a little too relaxed with "part of hockey" when they mean "part of the NHL."

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah...it really is.

Always has been.

Feel free to find me one single year that the NHL has existed when fighting wasn't part of the game.

Fighting is a part of hockey eh?


Sweet I will let me 9 yr old know that if he gets frustrated this weekend he can #### kick any kid he sees.

This is awesome, it makes me look forward to shinny next week even more, there is a fella there that annoys the #### out of me. I am sure he won't mind if i smash his teeth in.

[GioforPM]

"Part of the game" isn't really an issue in the suit. Promotion of fighting in the NHL is. It's pretty arguable it's been promoted/encouraged/rewarded, especially during the time period in question, and before.

[calgaryblood]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Yeah...it really is.

Always has been.

Feel free to find me one single year that the NHL has existed when fighting wasn't part of the game.

I will somehow find a way to play hockey tonight without fighting. Should I call it something else to appease you? Maybe floorball?

Fighting has nothing to do with hockey. Like literally zero. Just because some meatballs fight in the NHL doesn't mean it's part of hockey. It's part of the NHL because people are dumb. I can't think of a better word to describe men punching each other in the head because they can't settle their differences another way.

[Resolute 14]

I always get a laugh at the level of arrogance required to say that fighting is not a part of hockey (or the NHL, if you prefer) when fighting has been a part of hockey (or the NHL, if you prefer) literally since day 1. You can say you don't like fighting, and you can say you don't think the game would suffer if it was removed tomorrow. But don't sit there and pretend it is not a part of the sport today.

[JiriHrdina]

Is fighting part of football?

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Is fighting part of football?

I honestly have no idea, boring sport. It is a part of hockey (NHL hockey for the pedantic). It is 100% a part of hockey (NHL) at the moment. How can one even deny that. When it's no longer a part of hockey (NHL) is when you can no longer get penalized for it, when it's outright gone.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

I honestly have no idea, boring sport. It is a part of hockey (NHL hockey for the pedantic). It is 100% a part of hockey (NHL) at the moment. How can one even deny that. When it's no longer a part of hockey (NHL) is when you can no longer get penalized for it, when it's outright gone.

Fighting is a part of hockey in the same way that hitting from behind is part of hockey:

Illegal plays within the confines of the rules.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Is fighting part of football?

Is driving a tank part of water polo?