If Hartley is fired, who would replace him?

[Erick Estrada]

I still think he may get fired between now and the offseason. Take away the Penguins game and this is the worst team since his first season here and that was the worst Flames team since the young guns. This team plays really bad defensive hockey. Really bad. Sooner or later a GM will have to do something about how his team plays defense as it's been simply atrocious.

[thymebalm]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I still think he may get fired between now and the offseason. Take away the Penguins game and this is the worst team since his first season here and that was the worst Flames team since the young guns. This team plays really bad defensive hockey. Really bad. Sooner or later a GM will have to do something about how his team plays defense as it's been simply atrocious.

Treliving needs to decide if it's goaltending or coaching that is killing this team and fix it immediately.

First year I couldn't stand Hartley, Sdcond Season it seemed like he could motivate and coach a mean transition game, team makes the playoffs, players seem to like him, I say ok, he's better than I gave him credit for. This year, he's out coached every single night and I'm right back where I started. Where is the conditioning? The 3rd period will? The 5-man unit?

Evaporated in the summer heat.

[browna]

Also in the equation are Gelinas and Cloutier. Preston, Playfair and Lowry all took heat for their specific roles (powerplay, coaching the defense etc) when those teams were struggling...the assistants under Hartley aren't facing the same (at least CP) scrutiny.

Maybe off topic a bit, but would be interesting to hear Burke chime in at some point about the state of the team; maybe not the coaches, but some pointed words at the players and general state of affairs. Can't imagine he's taking watching this team fumble around night after night, gently.

[Phanuthier]

Bring back Rich Preston!

[Cali Panthers Fan]

If we don't win at least 2 games on the road trip, I'm assuming the pitchforks will be out for Hartley and crew.

[EVERLAST]

This is squarely on the player's

Bob stays

Changes from the goal out changes need to start happening

Let's start with Ramo, Wideman

T reliving needs to if he hasn't already get on the phones

Keep preaching defense first and then start with benching demotion waives and trades

[Poe969]

This isn't on the GM at all, he's doing the best he can with what he's got. He can't just get a guy like Price because he needs him. The players the Flames need aren't readily available.

Bob can preach defense first but if he won't make the changes he needs to make with what he has, he'll keep getting what he's been getting. Whatever he did last year isn't working right now, he needs to find out a new way to make them work harder. If it means sitting Gio or Monahan or anyone else, he should do it. So far this year he just seems too complacent and it seems like he's one of the players friends. This team just seems like they're all having a good time regardless of the outcome (it may just be the way I see it though). The team doesn't seem too upset about being terrible so far this year and the coach is the leader of the team.

Something has to give here soon though, if there are no big trades to be made then the coach has to go. As for who to replace him with, I have no idea but I like the idea of a younger guy or a guy who's innovative in some way. There just doesn't seem to be any big name coaches available right now.

[Wiggum_PI]

Originally Posted by Poe969

This isn't on the GM at all, he's doing the best he can with what he's got. He can't just get a guy like Price because he needs him. The players the Flames need aren't readily available.

Bob can preach defense first but if he won't make the changes he needs to make with what he has, he'll keep getting what he's been getting. Whatever he did last year isn't working right now, he needs to find out a new way to make them work harder. If it means sitting Gio or Monahan or anyone else, he should do it. So far this year he just seems too complacent and it seems like he's one of the players friends. This team just seems like they're all having a good time regardless of the outcome (it may just be the way I see it though). The team doesn't seem too upset about being terrible so far this year and the coach is the leader of the team.

Something has to give here soon though, if there are no big trades to be made then the coach has to go. As for who to replace him with, I have no idea but I like the idea of a younger guy or a guy who's innovative in some way. There just doesn't seem to be any big name coaches available right now.

The goalie debacle is definitely all on Treliving. He was the one who brought in Hiller and re-signed Ramo, who are both playing like garbage right now.

There was lots of cap space in the offseason to bring in a new goalie, but Treliving elected to resign Ramo, and load up Gio, Hamilton, and Frolik with big contracts.

Maybe the coaching is an issue, but the moves the GM made in the offseason haven't really improved the team at all. I don't think Treliving gets a free pass here.

[Poe969]

I agree that the re-signing of Ramo was questionable move but apparently he had a deal in place for Hiller and we needed to have someone and there weren't many options out there. I still think the Hamilton move was amazing, the Frolik deal isn't that bad at all and at the time, the Gio contract looked like a steal.

You can't really blame him for having the same 2 goalies as last year though. They weren't nearly this bad last year and there was no sign they'd be this bad at all. This team didn't make any negative moves this year as it's mostly the same team as last year plus some additions. The team did well last year and added 2 good players, I think the blame falls on the coach for not getting those players to produce.

[Badgers Nose]

With no trades avaialble it looks increasingly like BT will have to make a coaching change. The Coyotes are still catchable. Although the Ducks likely feel that way too.

Another 2-3 Flames losses and it wont matter.

I agree BT made some mistakes. But he essentially grading himself. I doubt he fires himself.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Wiggum_PI

The goalie debacle is definitely all on Treliving. He was the one who brought in Hiller and re-signed Ramo, who are both playing like garbage right now.

There was lots of cap space in the offseason to bring in a new goalie, but Treliving elected to resign Ramo, and load up Gio, Hamilton, and Frolik with big contracts.

Maybe the coaching is an issue, but the moves the GM made in the offseason haven't really improved the team at all. I don't think Treliving gets a free pass here.

The goaltending debacle I'll put in the GM. But can anybody really say that if they had only stuck with 2 of the 3 from the start, that we would be any better? I think that even if we had stuck with any duo from the start we'd be in the same spot. The team just looks off sync.

And you'll be hard pressed to find a single person not only on CP, but the entire hockey world who thought that the signing of Gio, Hamilton or Frolik was a bad move. Not a single one except for maybe some butt-hurt Bruins fans who have the luxury of hindsight. That is absolutely 100% NOT on the GM. The GM gives us the puzzle pieces. It's up to the players to put them together. The players aren't robotic entities that Treliving mind-controls. They are each individual human beings in control of their own actions. Treliving went out and got exactly what Flames fans wanted: strong possession players and a potential franchise RHD. Is that not what we all wanted? Who would turn that down, especially for what we acquired him for?? Hamilton is <3% into his contract so I'll be hard pressed to put the blame on him. Frolik is coming as advertised. Gio is a head scratcher, but you know he takes each loss personally and will eventually come out of this funk.

The GM/manager of any organization will always sit in front of a mic and proclaim it's his fault. That's what good leaders do. But realistically, it's the players fault for where they are at.

[dissentowner]

I think last years overachieving has really misled where this team actually is. We are still building toward a competitive club, we are not there yet. The fact that Bob Hartley got this team into the playoffs last year and gave the young guys a taste of playoff experience is incredible because they honestly were not ready to be that far yet. It took a bunch of incredible luck as well. So now people want to turf the coach because the team is not extremely overachieving again? I have news for you, nobody is coaching this team to the SC championship yet because they are not ready yet. Probably at least 3 years away still. Relax people, we are still building this thing.

[madmike]

I think Hartley will be fine this season. Most people realize the Flames over-achieved last year.

Now if there isn't improvement early into next season, I could see him getting the axe. He was Feaster's guy - not Treliving's - so despite the coach of the year award and the new deal, he's not going to get too much slack.

[Travis Munroe]

Originally Posted by browna

Also in the equation are Gelinas and Cloutier. Preston, Playfair and Lowry all took heat for their specific roles (powerplay, coaching the defense etc) when those teams were struggling...the assistants under Hartley aren't facing the same (at least CP) scrutiny.

Maybe off topic a bit, but would be interesting to hear Burke chime in at some point about the state of the team; maybe not the coaches, but some pointed words at the players and general state of affairs. Can't imagine he's taking watching this team fumble around night after night, gently.

I have a lunch and Q&A with 29 clients and Burke in a weeks time. The timing is actually great to see what his thoughts are and I am sure we will be sure to post to CP!

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I think last years overachieving has really misled where this team actually is. We are still building toward a competitive club, we are not there yet. The fact that Bob Hartley got this team into the playoffs last year and gave the young guys a taste of playoff experience is incredible because they honestly were not ready to be that far yet. It took a bunch of incredible luck as well. So now people want to turf the coach because the team is not extremely overachieving again? I have news for you, nobody is coaching this team to the SC championship yet because they are not ready yet. Probably at least 3 years away still. Relax people, we are still building this thing.

I don't think we overachieved as much as some make it sound.
If you look at our roster and compare it to other playoff teams, we look just as good if not better on paper to many of them. (other than goaltending)
Our D should be top 3 in the league, Our O should be middle of the pact and our goalie situation should have us on the bubble.

Instead, our D is near the bottom of the league, our goalies are at the bottom of the league and our O is coming from unlikely sources.

[Meers]

I suspect Hartley will suffer the Adams' curse and be fired by Xmas.

The obvious, ironic replacement was Torts, but Columbus beat us to the scrum outside of the locker room on that one.

Given the presence of Burke, Ron Wilson and Randy Carlyle will always be in the conversation.

However, Todd Richards, Guy Boucher or Travis Green are other options.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Poe969

This isn't on the GM at all, he's doing the best he can with what he's got.

Well, no.
The GM waived Paul Byron, who would probably be the best defensive player on the Flames.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Well, no.
The GM waived Paul Byron, who would probably be the best defensive player on the Flames.

If your 4th liner, who missed half the season last year, is the margin between success and failure, we are already a failure.

[Poe969]

Paul Byron....He'd make us a contender. It's not on the coach that can't get a group of defenders that most thought was top 3 in the NHL to play cohesively. It's not on a coach who can't get the team to put in a solid 50 minutes, let alone 60. Not the coach who keeps trying the same lines even though they aren't working and when a line does work, changes things. It's on the GM who waived a fringe 4th line guy.

[hockey.modern]

Sounds like Guy Boucher will not seek an extension with SC Bern after the season and will return home to Canada.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nhl-pu...ory&soc_trk=tw

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Well, no.
The GM waived Paul Byron, who would probably be the best defensive player on the Flames.

IMO, at even strength, Byron wouldn't be in the top 3 or 4 defensive forwards on the Flames. IMO, he's behind Frolik, Monahan, Stajan, Jooris and Backlund at least and maybe Bouma and Granlund as well. PK is different - he's very good on that unit.

This is a guy who didn't play on his new team until October 29. He's played 6 total and, while he had a great game against Calgary and also scored the next night, he has done literally nothing the other nights. Zero points, shots, +/-, blocks, etc. He does get a decent hit total usually.