What's wrong with the Flames? - Page 8 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

BACKCHECK!!! · 10-20-2015, 10:18 PM

This is hard to watch, but it's more or less what we were expecting from last season.

If someone had told me that out of the 2014-15 and 2015-16 seasons, one would see the Flames do bad, and one would see the Flames in the playoffs, I'd have been perfectly happy with that.

The Flames got playoff experience, but still managed to get Dougie Hamilton with their 1st round pick.

It sucks now, but even if this season spirals out of control, my long-term view is that the Flames are still in a better position now than they were a year ago.

Fire of the Phoenix · 10-20-2015, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Apparently the talent evaluator whose team is 7-0-0 thought Paul Byron is pretty good. Go figure.

He's exactly the kind of player who could light a fire under this team. Him and Bouma. These other guys - Ferland, Colborne, Bollig, they're just not cutting it.

Byron has had nothing to do with that 7-0 start though. Besides, didn't they only pick up Byron after Kassian got suspended/hurt? After 27 other teams passed on him?

The list of guys who aren't cutting it is hilariously long. I wouldn't single three bottom 6 wingers out when guys like Gio, Hamilton, Wideman, Russell, Monahan, Hudler, Ramo, Hiller and others look like they're suffering from lead poisoning.

PepsiFree · 10-20-2015, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Apparently the talent evaluator whose team is 7-0-0 thought Paul Byron is pretty good. Go figure.

Well, good enough to sit on their bench while they wait for Zach Kassian to come back.

MarkGio · 10-20-2015, 10:55 PM

It's a combination of two things:

1) Bad goaltending/defense
-- The goaltending dual is not working
-- The defense has been pinching too frequently, due a lack of offense

2) No offfense
-- Too many guys are bottom sixers (Colborne, Bouma, Stajan, Ferland, Bollig, Raymond, Jones, Frolik, Backlund, and Jooris)
-- Ideally, Monahan, Gaudreau and Hudler would be a second line

I think the outcome this year will be a basement finish in the West, maybe even in the league

bax · 10-20-2015, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkGio

It's a combination of two things:

1) Bad goaltending/defense

-- The goaltending dual is not working

-- The defense has been pinching too frequently, due a lack of offense

2) No offfense

-- Too many guys are bottom sixers (Colborne, Bouma, Stajan, Ferland, Bollig, Raymond, Jones, Frolik, Backlund, and Jooris)

-- Ideally, Monahan, Gaudreau and Hudler would be a second line

I think the outcome this year will be a basement finish in the West, maybe even in the league

On what team are Monahan, Hudler, and Johnny a second line!?

Fire of the Phoenix · 10-20-2015, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bax

On what team are Monahan, Hudler, and Johnny a second line!?

Probably half of them... but they're still a good first line.

Samonadreau · 10-20-2015, 11:31 PM

Theres an full blown uncensored F bomb in M&G's post game. Good for Ari!

polak · 10-20-2015, 11:32 PM

Gaudreau on the second line of half the nhl teams?

CroFlames · 10-20-2015, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Byron has had nothing to do with that 7-0 start though. Besides, didn't they only pick up Byron after Kassian got suspended/hurt? After 27 other teams passed on him?

The list of guys who aren't cutting it is hilariously long. I wouldn't single three bottom 6 wingers out when guys like Gio, Hamilton, Wideman, Russell, Monahan, Hudler, Ramo, Hiller and others look like they're suffering from lead poisoning.

You should take a step back and learn how to evaluate hockey. Monahan has been solid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Probably half of them... but they're still a good first line.

Some posters on this site just get ridiculous when things go sideways for the Flames. Monahan, Johnny and Hudler should be a 2nd line? My God man. This coupled with the GT thread is just atrocious.

hockey.modern · 10-20-2015, 11:36 PM

Geez guys, were at the point now where were calling our two top tier studs second liners at best now?

Samonadreau · 10-20-2015, 11:44 PM

Mony and Johnny are first line Studs and are 22 and 21 years old aka gonna get even better.

Yanda · 10-21-2015, 12:12 AM

Effort - Definitely Lacking, with this defense and exceptional Defensive Forwards like Backlund, Frolik we should not be allowing this many goals.
Chemistry - The goals just dont seem to be coming right now and alot of that is due to turn overs and bad stretch passes through the neutral zone. I dont remember this team ever getting this many Icing calls.
Goaltending - It hasnt been great and some blame needs to be placed on the teams defensive play. It seems like having 3 goalies is starting to become a problem, and a distraction.
Bad Breaks - I dont think there has really been anything to really complain about
Coaching - The Effort level and defensive play lately is a poor reflection on coaching. There not here to motivate the players but they need to make adjustments and moving Frolik to the top line isnt really the anwser.
Injuries - Our defense with or without Brodie should be top 10 in the league and we have played without Gio for the last 1/4 of the last 2 seasons. I dont see Brodies injury as an excuse. Bouma and Colborne are not impact players and our depth can/has filled in.
Competitors Improving - Lets not give the Oilers too much credit, there Defense and Goaltending is still below average. The Canucks and Jets on the other hand will be right where they were last season, Fighting for a wild card spot. The Pacific imo is weaker than the Central at the moment.

Fire of the Phoenix · 10-21-2015, 12:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CroFlames

You should take a step back and learn how to evaluate hockey. Monahan has been solid.

Some posters on this site just get ridiculous when things go sideways for the Flames. Monahan, Johnny and Hudler should be a 2nd line? My God man. This coupled with the GT thread is just atrocious.

"Monahan's totally been SOLID, bro! The fact that you're not happy with him means I'm totally smarter than you! You watch hockey like a donkey!"

I'm sure you're wanting to quote his Corsi to prove how SOLID he has been. Do me a favor and don't bother.

BTW, I never called Gaudreau and Monahan 2nd liners, if that's what you're saying. I was responding to another poster and was inferring that there may be 10-15 better 1st lines in the league, not that they, themselves were 2nd line talents.

I don't know why I'm responding, you're probably just going to rip on me with more insults, saying that they're totally top 5 and I'm a moron for thinking they're a tier below that.

buyakasha · 10-21-2015, 12:50 AM

Hm I feel like people are forgetting Hamilton is still a project and is only 22.

I'm my opinion I think he's going to be demoted once Brodie gets back. Once that happens he'll have less pressure and he'll be able to really take his game to the next level as a Calgary Flame.

As for the goalie situation, I can't help but wonder how it would have played out of we stuck to just one number one goalie last season. Would that goalie have improved and been more solid/consistent with more games played? Yes we probably would have missed the playoffs but I really wonder. It feels Damn frustrating with the 3 goalies.

I'm not too worried about the forwards yet. Hopefully they find chemistry soon. The defense carried a lot of our offense last year so Brodie should help with that although we shouldn't be relying on the defense for offense.

I've gots a strange feeling that the return of Brodie will be the turning point of the 15/16 season.

St. Pats · 10-21-2015, 02:30 AM

I know that watching last season there was many a game where they won where I really could not fathom how they did it. Yes I saw it unfold before my eyes but they did it with coming from behind, hardly having the puck on their sticks etc. They seemed to get every break you could possibly get. Players getting hot one after another especially the goal tending which seemed to go on streak after streak. There were multiple out of nowhere wins.

You combine that with an injury to Brodie and with them thinking they are all that and it's not that surprising.

I was thinking this year they would upgrade the goaltending. Instead they made a move that upgraded the defense(or should eventually). That they would get that lucky again in so many ways seemed highly unlikely. Yes they created some of that luck by hard work but it was also a really amazing set of circumstances.

Could again be a blessing in disguise though / will really allow the GM to make further changes/trades if they are slipping. Really the goal should be to keep building and a step back could help the process.

IgiTang · 10-21-2015, 02:45 AM

I just hope D.Hamilton doesn't turn out to be JayBo 2.0 when he played for us. Meaning soft as butter.

JohnnyB · 10-21-2015, 07:02 AM

I haven't been able to watch a lot of the Flames so far in this young season, only two games, but Hamilton hasn't looked good to me yet. I still have faith he'll be a good part of the team, but has he really earned the top line time yet? Isn't that the ethos of this team?

flambers · 10-21-2015, 07:06 AM

In my view, the biggest issue is the lack of chemistry. (no clue what is different this year as the team is very similar)

Other than the first line, the remaining forwards have all struggled to generate any type of offense.

Flames seem to be making mental mistakes, this is creating huge chances at the other end.

Defense (not just Hamilton) are struggling.... Could be they are pushing to hard to generate offense

Goal tending situation, 3 goalie tandem has to be resolved.... So far goalies have been very underwhelming

Split98 · 10-21-2015, 07:06 AM

As much as I'm a huge proponent of giving Ortio a shot, can you imagine how nervous he is right now?

"This team sucks, let's see if Ortio fixes it!"
"Uh... we can wait it out with Hiller or Ramo for a bit, no?"

adc · 10-21-2015, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

I haven't been able to watch a lot of the Flames so far in this young season, only two games, but Hamilton hasn't looked good to me yet. I still have faith he'll be a good part of the team, but has he really earned the top line time yet? Isn't that the ethos of this team?

If Hamilton isn't there or hasn't earned it who has?

Wideman and Russell have had some pretty big struggles this year, especially Wideman defensively. Gio had a much better game last night but has not looked like himself at all. I can't imagine people want Engelland playing 25 minutes a night against the top line of the other team. Kulak has looked ok for a guy with his experience, but he has been playing 11 minutes of sheltered ice time and still has struggled at times playing those minutes.

Sure Hamilton hasn't looked as good as people expecting a stud defenseman should look but I think it is the expectations that people had of him that are the issue not his play.

The reality is that none of the 6 defensemen have looked like they should be getting top pairing minutes so far this season so the best option at this point is to put the two guys who have shown to be the best and to be able to play effectively against top guys in the past in that role right now and hope that when Brodie comes back there is more flexibility to mix up the pairings into ones that work better together.