Curtis Glencross on FAN960 @4:25 UPD: Tryout with Avalanche?

[Freeway]

Regarding Glencross' perimeter play in the later parts of his tenure here: he was BEAT UP by the end of his contract. He was a perimeter play because he physically couldn't go into the dirty areas and retrieve the puck like he used to be able to do. That's the reason so many players with that role often have short careers (and really short earning windows).

[GettinIggyWithIt]

Buyer's remorse, crocodile tears or a player just speaking his mind...whatever the case - I think most of us in his situation would look back at it is a missed opportunity if you left potentially 6 million on the table. He's not in any kind of dire financial need and has made a productive career out of not being drafted but hard to argue with his line of thinking. As the saying goes - hindsight is 20/20. Hopefully Glencross gets a contract because I think he can still contribute as a solid bottom 6 player on a lot of teams. He'll just have to accept that his role has changed.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I got no issue with him talking about taking a discount when he did. Based on the free agency crop that year, he probably did take somewhere between a 6M to 8M discount, without factoring in the NMC at least. Which is significant when the deal he signed was just north of 10M.

Glencross (Age 29):
2009-2010: 15-17-33 (67 Games)
2010-2011: 24-19-43 (79 Games)
Signed: 2.6M/4 years

Fleischmann (Age 27):
2009-2010: 23-28-51 (69 Games)
2010-2011: 12-19-31 (45 Games)
Signed: 4.5M/4 years

Leino (Age 28):
2009-2010: 6-5-11 (55 Games)
2010-2011: 19-34-53 (81 Games)
Signed: 4.5M/6 years

Ryder (Age: 31):
2009-2010: 18-15-33 (82 Games)
2010-2011: 18-23-41 (79 Games)
Signed: 3.5M/2 years

Cole (Age 33):
2009-2010: 11-5-16 (40 Games)
2010-2011: 26-26-52 (82 Games)
Signed: 4.5M/4 years

Ward (Age 31):
2009-2010: 13-31-34 (71 Games)
2010-2011: 10-19-29 (80 Games)
Signed: 3M/4 years

Upshall (Age 28):
2009-2010: 18-14-32 (49 Games)
2010-2011: 22-12-34 (82 Games)
Signed: 3.5M/4 years


Most of the contracts came back to bite the teams in the butt, but it's hard to argue that he didn't leave a significant amount on the table when Leino, a player with exactly one decent regular season (didn't even crack 20 goales) and one good playoffs, was able to get a 27M dollar contract that off-season.

Frolik (Age 27)

2013-14: 15-27-42 (81 games)
2014-15: 19-23-42 (82 games)

Signed 4.3/5 yrs

Will he turn out to be as good as Glencross at 1.7/year more?

From this list I take the following info... Journeyman (.5 ppg) UFA's are not worth the contracts they get. The first year of the deal works out okay and then the wheels fall off.

The only 4M value years were out of Ryder in Dallas..... He was on a 2 year deal. Fleishmann had a 62 pt year his first year of his 4 year deal and Cole had a 61 pt first year. That is 3 good years out of 19 where the players were better than the .5ppg they signed entering the prime of their career.

For most of these guys (well all of the sample) the sudden windfall of 16-20M guaranteed is too big of a burden to their motivation.

They never expects to make 20M and they exceed their financial goals.

[Vinny01]

What about Budler who signed his 4 year $16M deal at age 28 he is omitted from that list and has proven to be an amazing signing.

Frolik comes with a reputation of being a player that every coach loves. He can play up and down the lineup on both sides of the wing. Hartley and the Flsmes likely deploy him as a top 6 forward and he will be given the chance to break 50pts this year

Glencross always was a streaky player. Sometimes he was unstoppable and others he was invisible. He took a lot of bad penalties and often was injured during a season. It truly is shocking that he is only getting PTO's right now. I don't blame him for regretting his hometown discount. You look at the Canucks and Burrows. Through the prime of his career the Nucks only paid Burrows $2m per. Before he hit free agency they gave him a $4.5M per deal and it looks awful right now. Glennie obviously though he was going to get another $15-$20M on a long term deal and he is likely going to sign somewhere for $1m and hope he plays well enough to get a 2-3 year deal next summer. I hope it works out for him

[TorqueDog]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Frolik (Age 27)

2013-14: 15-27-42 (81 games)
2014-15: 19-23-42 (82 games)

Signed 4.3/5 yrs

Will he turn out to be as good as Glencross at 1.7/year more?

It's not really a relevant comparison to look at Frolik's contract today versus the one Glencross signed in 2009.

2009-2010 salary cap = $56.8 million
2014-2015 salary cap = $71.4 million

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Frolik (Age 27)

2013-14: 15-27-42 (81 games)
2014-15: 19-23-42 (82 games)

Signed 4.3/5 yrs

Will he turn out to be as good as Glencross at 1.7/year more?

From this list I take the following info... Journeyman (.5 ppg) UFA's are not worth the contracts they get. The first year of the deal works out okay and then the wheels fall off.

The only 4M value years were out of Ryder in Dallas..... He was on a 2 year deal. Fleishmann had a 62 pt year his first year of his 4 year deal and Cole had a 61 pt first year. That is 3 good years out of 19 where the players were better than the .5ppg they signed entering the prime of their career.

For most of these guys (well all of the sample) the sudden windfall of 16-20M guaranteed is too big of a burden to their motivation.

They never expects to make 20M and they exceed their financial goals.

I see where you're going ... Treliving should get a Delorean and go back in time getting NHL superstars and their then contracts and bring them forward into today's NHL.

We could get Jagr from 1994-95, he scored 32 goals in a lock out shortened season of 48 games and made only 2.8M

Great Scott!

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Frolik (Age 27)

2013-14: 15-27-42 (81 games)
2014-15: 19-23-42 (82 games)

Signed 4.3/5 yrs

Will he turn out to be as good as Glencross at 1.7/year more?

From this list I take the following info... Journeyman (.5 ppg) UFA's are not worth the contracts they get. The first year of the deal works out okay and then the wheels fall off.

The only 4M value years were out of Ryder in Dallas..... He was on a 2 year deal. Fleishmann had a 62 pt year his first year of his 4 year deal and Cole had a 61 pt first year. That is 3 good years out of 19 where the players were better than the .5ppg they signed entering the prime of their career.

For most of these guys (well all of the sample) the sudden windfall of 16-20M guaranteed is too big of a burden to their motivation.

They never expects to make 20M and they exceed their financial goals.

You are making some strong conclusion here. I guess you are saying Frolik is overpaid. Obviously comparing to a contract signed 4 years ago is flawed logic. And I don't agree with the sweeping generalizations about motivation and never expecting to make that kind of money.

The heart of your argument is worth some debate. Is Frolik a journeyman, which is subject to interpretation? Glencross was a useful player but given injuries and inconsistency I am more likely to put him in that category.

Frolik's scoring output is similar but I think overall he brings more with his game. If you believe he is a solid 2nd line forward on a championship team then he is worth his contract. If you think he is replaceable by call ups or ELC players, then the Flames will come to regret the deal. The only fact supporting the latter argument is that a couple of teams have traded him and his last team let him walk instead of paying him 2nd line money.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by FlamesPuck12

Glencross regrets taking a hometown discount with the Flames

http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/818687

Comments like this are probably part of the reason he fell out of favour with the coaching staff. It appears he overvalued his contributions, play, and net worth as an NHL player. If only he could have played as good as he thinks he is in his contract year he wouldn't be in this situation. IMO he should be more disappointed in his own play than how his last contract played out. Hopefully for him this is a kick in the pants for him to go out and prove everyone wrong on a one year deal but he's really going to have to ramp up his intensity on a night to night basis as when he's on he's a player that any team can use but when he's not on his game IMO he's a negative value player and last year was one of those years where there were he was off his game far too much as he should have been a healthy scratch for the Flames at times like he was with the Caps.

[curves2000]

I personally think that Glencross and some fans are looking at this perhaps at a different angle than me.

Did he take a hometown discount last contract? Yes he did but that was a result of term and a NTC which he wanted for his new, young family plus his business interests in central Alberta.

I think the issue here might be the poor advice he received from his agent regarding his actual UFA worth. Agents job is to come prepared for contracts and analyze the market place for their clients and I am not sure this one was handled correctly. I do recall 2 interviews with both Brad Treleving and Brian Burke talking about how they would love to extend him but their is a difference as to the $$$ between the team and his agent. I could see the Flames willing to extend him for 3 years at a AAV of $3 mil but perhaps Glencross and co were looking at a $4-4.5 number.

Fast forward to the trade with the Caps and it appears that they wanted to keep him. I also recall an interview with their GM talking about wrapping up the UFA's including Glencross but again there might have been a gap in terms of the dollars. In any event it's strange that a player such as Glencross hasnt been able to sign a deal when it does appear from the outside that 2 different teams were interested in his services at contracts less than the player/agent had hoped.

All the best to him in the future but sometimes poor advice can derail a career if you price yourself out of a job.

[Strange Brew]

I know it's just speculation on your part but if the Flames did offer him a 3x$3, I am extremely thankful he turned it down. I am sure Flames did offer him something and it looks they dodged a bullet, maybe inadvertently.

[TorqueDog]

I don't hold it against a guy for wishing he had taken the big money in hindsight. Especially in sports, where your career can be over in a split second. I don't think complaining about it in public when you're still out of a job is terribly helpful either, but I feel for the guy. You only get one shot to get the big money, you take it.

That said, what if that big money contract he wishes he had taken and the resulting play of Glencross ended with the Flames or some other team using a compliance buyout on him? He might have been looking for a job sooner.

Maybe things aren't so bad after all, Curtis....

[FlamesPuck12]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I got no issue with him talking about taking a discount when he did. Based on the free agency crop that year, he probably did take somewhere between a 6M to 8M discount, without factoring in the NMC at least. Which is significant when the deal he signed was just north of 10M.

Glencross (Age 29):
2009-2010: 15-17-33 (67 Games)
2010-2011: 24-19-43 (79 Games)
Signed: 2.6M/4 years

Fleischmann (Age 27):
2009-2010: 23-28-51 (69 Games)
2010-2011: 12-19-31 (45 Games)
Signed: 4.5M/4 years

Leino (Age 28):
2009-2010: 6-5-11 (55 Games)
2010-2011: 19-34-53 (81 Games)
Signed: 4.5M/6 years

Ryder (Age: 31):
2009-2010: 18-15-33 (82 Games)
2010-2011: 18-23-41 (79 Games)
Signed: 3.5M/2 years

Cole (Age 33):
2009-2010: 11-5-16 (40 Games)
2010-2011: 26-26-52 (82 Games)
Signed: 4.5M/4 years

Ward (Age 31):
2009-2010: 13-31-34 (71 Games)
2010-2011: 10-19-29 (80 Games)
Signed: 3M/4 years

Upshall (Age 28):
2009-2010: 18-14-32 (49 Games)
2010-2011: 22-12-34 (82 Games)
Signed: 3.5M/4 years


Most of the contracts came back to bite the teams in the butt, but it's hard to argue that he didn't leave a significant amount on the table when Leino, a player with exactly one decent regular season (didn't even crack 20 goales) and one good playoffs, was able to get a 27M dollar contract that off-season.

Someone else on Reddit did a similar comparison as this one and their conclusion was that Glencross didn't take a hometown discount with his last contract.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comm...l_with/cujtu4p

[Oling_Roachinen]

Originally Posted by FlamesPuck12

Someone else on Reddit did a similar comparison as this one and their conclusion was that Glencross didn't take a hometown discount with his last contract.

https://www.reddit.com/r/hockey/comm...l_with/cujtu4p

Some pretty crappy comparables there.

Kopecky is a decent one. But he only had that one good season and even then he put up 15 goals to the 25 Glencross did. He was also older than Glencross. It's reasonable to assume that Glencross would have made more than Kopecky. Kopecky also got 4 year term, which was about the norm for these guys.

Handzus was 34 and had just reached 30 points. He's not a comparable to Glencross at all.

Jeff Halpern? Are you kidding me?

Belanger I think is fair to include. But again, it's comparing a 33 year old, at the time, with a 28 year old. There's far better comparables to Glencross than Belanger.

Fiddler? Why is this guy including 4th line players who can't score 8 goals?

Higgins is probably the fairest of these pretty poor comparables but he didn't have a good year with the Canadiens his last year, he sucked with the Rangers, was a non-factor with the Flames. He bounced back in Florida, but when traded to Vancouver he was nothing special. Put up 8 points in their playoff run. He had been a sub 30 point player on 4 of the 5 teams he had been with.

Bergenheim was a tier below Glencross.

Tores? Uggh. You got to question if this guy has ever watched hockey at this point.

Players like Kopecky and Ward, at the time, getting the same term and more money show that Glencross took a discount without factoring in the NMC. There was some reluctancy from fans with the contract as Glencross had shown to be a streaky player already so long-term was a bit worrisome. Half the team already had a NMC/NTC so another player with it also caused concern. Rarely did you find anyone who had an issue with the actual cap-hit though, many fans of other teams considered it a discount. Glencross, at the time, said he took a discount and Ken King was known to have agreed with that sentiment. Feaster alluded to it as well. I think there's room to argue that the NMC made up for the discount he took, but that is still what Glencross is getting at. He could have gone after more money, probably costing him the comfort and stability of staying in Alberta with a NMC. He now thinks he should have.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I see where you're going ... Treliving should get a Delorean and go back in time getting NHL superstars and their then contracts and bring them forward into today's NHL.

We could get Jagr from 1994-95, he scored 32 goals in a lock out shortened season of 48 games and made only 2.8M

Great Scott!

Yep... It is good to keep on putting out the big bucks and long terms when about 1 in 10 actually works. Everyone else does it.

GM DNA memory left over from the pre-cap days when big bad contracts didn't matter.

[GGG]

I can see him kicking himself leaving 40% of his earnings on the table
I don't think he blames anyone but himself. I like hearing these types of things from athletes so I don't think he should be critizized for saying it.

I hope he is able to get another few years in. He always loved beating the oilers

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GGG

I can see him kicking himself leaving 40% of his earnings on the table

It's entirely possible he would have made more money going to free agency but 40% is conjecture as we will never know exactly how much he left on the table. Considering how he and his agent miscalculated his worth in this free agency there's a possibility they inflated his value at prior to him taking a horse ride with King to the point they felt they gave the Flames a really sweet deal. IMO he was underpaid in the first half in the deal and by the end of the deal was arguably overpaid so it balanced out in the end.

If Cody Franson signed a 2 year $7 million contract on day one of free agency to stick with the Leafs I guarantee most of us would have said he left a big pay day on the table to stay with the Leafs. Turns out we would have been totally incorrect. The bottom line is that you don't really know a player's value until they hit the unrestricted market.

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Yep... It is good to keep on putting out the big bucks and long terms when about 1 in 10 actually works. Everyone else does it.

GM DNA memory left over from the pre-cap days when big bad contracts didn't matter.

1 in 10? Come on man, you know the AVERAGE NHL player makes over $3m, right?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's entirely possible he would have made more money going to free agency but 40% is conjecture as we will never know exactly how much he left on the table. Considering how he and his agent miscalculated his worth in this free agency there's a possibility they inflated his value at prior to him taking a horse ride with King to the point they felt they gave the Flames a really sweet deal. IMO he was underpaid in the first half in the deal and by the end of the deal was arguably overpaid so it balanced out in the end.

If Cody Franson signed a 2 year $7 million contract on day one of free agency to stick with the Leafs I guarantee most of us would have said he left a big pay day on the table to stay with the Leafs. Turns out we would have been totally incorrect. The bottom line is that you don't really know a player's value until they hit the unrestricted market.

4 yrs at 3.6 million was pretty much a given if you look at the other players who signed that year.

If you look at the contracts signed this year in free agency you wouldn't say that Fransen left money on the table. The additional info we gain in hindsight allow us to assess what he likely would have gotten. The people saying 6 to 8 extra might be pushing it but to say he gets under 3.5 that year is pretty u likely

[dino7c]

Glencross was playing a pretty big roll on the Flames considering his skill set....With Iggy at times, PP minutes, usually in a top six role. I doubt he would have put up points many places the way he did in Calgary. Lets not forget the Blue Jackets and Oilers (not exactly top teams) got rid of this guy before Calgary gave him a shot. Poor guy only made 10M over the last four years

[Mr.Coffee]

I don't blame the guy one bit for making those comments or feeling that way. I tend to agree with him, he likely could have negotiated a bit better deal. No point dwelling in the past, but I suspect the interview question was targeted to that.

As mentioned, he lost his energy, inspiration, physical play. He refused to go to the hard areas, he refused to skate with urgency and his work ethic dropped off significantly from when he started to the end when he was traded.

It's not super surprising he hasn't been signed yet, and if he gets one more chance he better look in the mirror, do a little soul searching and act as if he's a rookie trying to crack the league.

All that said I do find it extremely odd that Setoguchi was offered a PTO before Glencross.