Most Albertans overweight or obese: report

[Thor]

Originally Posted by taco.vidal

Recommended average daily calorie intake of 2,400 to 2,500 for an average male (lots of factors, but lets ballpark). You don't get obese on that. Show me some science that says otherwise or shows whatever its is you are claiming. Im actually not sure what you are claiming that science says. Peer reviewed research, please and I will read it with an open mind.

Have you read anything I have said, or followed the links I posted, including the 3 part BBC series.

Well no you haven't, because you have done the Calories in&Calories out gambit, which is pretty much the creationist version of If we evolved from monkey's, why are there still monkeys?

This is from my good friend in Iceland:

http://authoritynutrition.com/debunk...-calorie-myth/

Saying that weight (or health for that matter) is simply a function of “calories in, calories out” is completely wrong.

It is a drastic oversimplification that doesn’t account for the complex metabolic pathways that different foods go through, or the effects that foods have on our brain and hormones.

[V]

Originally Posted by Thor

Wait, you said earlier, and I quote:

That's today. I found myself weighing 215 when I should be in the 190 range.

But lets say you picked up 40 lbs when you quit smoking, I have no doubt that is the case, I know many in your boat my friend.

And that's a different time. Either way, I slack off and gain a bunch of wait, I become disciplined and lose most of it. So the part of Torque's post that I think resonates with people is the story of people being overweight because of lack of discipline. Probably because we've all experienced it, and know that we let ourselves go, and then have to work it off. I don't think most people would agree with the obesity part.

I hope you don't think I've attacked you in any way. I appreciate most of what you have to write, but I really think you've gone off the deep end in this thread, in a way I've never seen before. I was hoping you'd settle down, because I think a lot of people do appreciate your posting and agree with you in most cases. I think you lose credit when you go as ragey as you've done in this thread. I have my suspicions as to why it's different this time, but it doesn't really matter. I just wish you'd calm down so that you can be taken more seriously like you usually are. No hard feelings or attacks intended from here.

[Devils'Advocate]

A Google search on "weight set point" or "leptin ghrelin weight maintenance" will back up much of what Dr Aamodt has to say.

While 2500 calories won't make you obese. But as a 350 pound man in a 175 pound body I have had to find every trick in the book live a liveable life on 2500 calories. How miserable would life be if you were hungry ALL THE TIME. What if you never, ever felt satisfied (satiated)? What if you constantly found your life preoccupied by thoughts of food? What if you would wake up in the middle of the night to use the washroom and instead found yourself raiding the fridge? I have experienced all of these things SINCE losing the weight. I have had to work with a variety of different doctors to find solutions that work for me.

Personally, and Thor may disagree, but I think there just hasn't been nearly enough research done on weight MAINTENANCE. There is PLENTY, and I mean PLENTY of research that has been done that shows that keeping off significant weight is next to impossible. And Dr. Aamodt's talk is a good start, but we need MORE studies that back up her claims. But more importantly, we need more studies on how we combat the human body's reaction to weight loss. We spend billions on weight LOSS, but scant pennies on weight MAINTENANCE. I was interviewed last week for a book on weight maintenance; I was told that it was hard for the author to track down people who have been able to keep off 100+ pounds for five years. Anyhow, the author said she was writing for an empty market. 10,000 books on Amazon about weight loss, 3 on weight maintenance. Three. Just three. WTF?

Anyhow, I should hit the sack. My first Olympic triathlon tomorrow. Already have butterflies.

Edit:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/ar...lose-them.html

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Literally just happened again to me five minutes ago. Someone put a box of timbits on the corner of my desk, and people have been eating out of it. One co-worker stops by and says "Have one, buddy." I said "No thanks," and immediately he scowls at me and says "WHY?!" I made some lame excuse about having just eaten, but Jesus. I went for a 6k run last night, that was mostly uphill. Why would I want to waste all that effort over some damn timbits?

seen this mentioned earlier in the thread too, does this really happen and often?

[Thor]

Originally Posted by V

I don't think most people would agree with the obesity part.

Misquote, I am assuming you mean I dont think most people would disagree with the obesity part

I hope you don't think I've attacked you in any way. I appreciate most of what you have to write, but I really think you've gone off the deep end in this thread, in a way I've never seen before.

I absolutely have no issue with you dude. I don't understand what anything I have said means I have gone of the deep end means, can you please point out any illogical comments I have made in defense of those struggling with their weight?

I was hoping you'd settle down, because I think a lot of people do appreciate your posting and agree with you in most cases. I think you lose credit when you go as ragey as you've done in this thread. I have my suspicions as to why it's different this time, but it doesn't really matter.

Yet no one is arguing my specific points. Because I am angry, frustrated, is there anything I have said that is not based on science and reality?

But let us review my @ragey@ response so far, comments insulting to those struggling with their weight:

• I think people are often unaware or even in denial about their weight problems. Obese people think they are merely overweight and those in the overweight range think they aren't.
  
• We shame smokers, being fat is no different. Both are (or require) direct, intentional actions that are often sustained through habit that lead to negative health and interpersonal outcomes. Fat shame is necessary.
  
• Yes, you should be ashamed if you've treated the only body you get in this life like a dumpster.
  
• The trick is to hate your body enough to recognize you need to change, and love yourself enough to realize you're worth the effort.
  
• The only difference with kids is the excuses are easier to come by.....at 43 I weigh 195 lbs, at 23 I was 188 lbs.
  
• Kids don't make ya fat.
  
• And just to add, I think enabling your dependent children to become overweight or obese should qualify as child abuse.
  
• Added costs and stresses on the healthcare system, changes to our infrastructure to accommodate wider people, reduced lifespan, lower IQ, lesser quality of life, added costs to dispose of your oversized carcass when you expire, impact to your loved ones of losing someone far too early.
  
• Yeah, nothin' wrong with that.

I just wish you'd calm down so that you can be taken more seriously like you usually are. No hard feelings or attacks intended from here.

I'm pretty calm, but no doubt I am emotionally invested and resent the blanket statements made so far, especially when they are not science based... I think everyone that knows me, understands that when people deny science, make statements which go against science, I do not take that quietly

[Thor]

Ok guys, 3 private messages, I appreciate the positive feedback. But the only way we turn around this ridiculous obesity = lazy, dumb, undisciplined, etc... is if we publicly join together..

The reason I spent so much effort on this topic, is because I have a number of journalists and people in Iceland who are reading this thread, waiting for me to write my article in Iceland on fat shaming and "hoping" i will mock and take on Biggest loser.

Iceland's biggest loser is really not that bad, we did it right. BUT I have lots more to say and that article will be done in the next few weeks, as I'm on vacation lol.

[PsYcNeT]

I guess the biggest question I have, is creationism, anti-vax, holistic stuff, etc. all has a massive, easily available body of work related to countering them. There are many vocal opponents to these social cancers.

Why then, does weight/obesity/whatever not have the same kind of readily available information? I don't need to watch a 3 hour video to learn why reiki is total garbage, I don't need to take a full course to understand that homeopathic medicine is quackery, or that Palmer chiropractic is horrifying nonsense.

[ranchlandsselling]

Thor, you need to chill out or you're not going to be taken very seriously.

Someone says this:

So when I see this report saying the majority of Albertans are overweight or worse, I believe it (hell, there were some horrendously fat people at Stampede)

And you respond with:

Glad you let us know you saw some disgusting fat people.

I'd say being obese is horrendous for the obese person, and you're the one calling fat people disgusting.

or this:

We don't know #### about eating properly, and a lot of people are too lazy to take the time to learn about it.

And your response is:

So many insults and rude comments I want to say, but I won't play your game.

Ummm, I'm not so sure what's the problem, generally the average person doesn't actually seem to know about eating properly and a lot of people are too lazy to learn. At no point was that "obese people are lazy". Everyone has seen them. The overweight people that eat horribly, grab a whip cream starbucks drink 3 times a day, eat out constantly and need desert with every dinner followed by snacks at the TV. They do a health kick here and there and then give up within a few weeks and slowly return to what the prior life style was.

Here's another gem

I think one thing thats glossed over is that people are gaining weight back because they return back to the habits that caused them to gain weight in the first place.

And your response is:

Yeah! Lazy non committal losers who can't keep their focus to lose weight!

I'm pretty sure you're the only one who used the negative adjectives like "lazy, non commital, losers". Also, usually people trying to lose weight go back to their earlier habits and gain the weight back... Is there any proof that that isn't accurate for the average over weight person?

And there's more:

And just to add, I think enabling your dependent children to become overweight or obese should qualify as child abuse.

And a response like:

Damn, lol, I totally forgot to respond to this.

Hey Torque, go fk yourself you ###### bag.

and you who "liked" this fked up comment...

is going to contribute to the thread? What's your opinion on a parent that allows their child to become obese? If you saw a 10 year old that was morbidly obese and eating a bunch of junk food, snacks, sitting in front of the TV, etc. consuming a diet that was 5-6 times the caloric intake required and you think that's ok?

It is amazing how a few of you want to attack me, which is to attack myself and DA who are I think the only 2 100 pound plus weight loss members here.

I haven't seen anyone actually attack you. I've seen people make some generalizations towards and article that suggested a lot of Albertan's are overweight. I'd also agree with a lot of the generalizations because they typically apply to the general population that is being referenced. Overweight. Not obese or morbidly obese (are they the same thing?).

I've also seen a lot of assumptions by you, like putting words in peoples mouths, taking things in a context that they clearly didn't intend, and proudly declaring that you're (or two of you) are the only 100 pound wight loss members here.

- I think people are often unaware or even in denial about their weight problems. Obese people think they are merely overweight and those in the overweight range think they aren't.

Well I bet if you polled all of Alberta I doubt 60% would agree that they're overweight.

We shame smokers, being fat is no different. Both are (or require) direct, intentional actions that are often sustained through habit that lead to negative health and interpersonal outcomes. Fat shame is necessary.
Yes, you should be ashamed if you've treated the only body you get in this life like a dumpster.

I don't think the shaming part was meant in the way you're taking it, in the way that there's been "shaming threads" of late. But it reads a bit insensitive. I took it as, people that are overweight don't need to have their overweightness ignored, dismissed, etc. Just like society shouldn't brush under the rug alcoholism and smoking. They're all bad for you and bad for society as a whole.

The trick is to hate your body enough to recognize you need to change, and love yourself enough to realize you're worth the effort.

I took that in a different context. You shouldn't be happy with the fact you're obese or overweight. You should hate it, or whatever adjective you choose that makes you realize it's not healthy. Hate, loathe, be disappointed, be encouraged to change, be whatever the heck you want. For some people they look at themselves and "hate" what they've let happen to themselves. For others they might love what they see but think what the see is covered in something that hides their... I don't know...

The only difference with kids is the excuses are easier to come by.....at 43 I weigh 195 lbs, at 23 I was 188 lbs.

It's true. Just because you have kids it doesn't mean you can't eat well and exercise. A lot of people put on weight when they have kids. They don't have to, but it's easy. I eat my kids meals that they don't eat, I sit down at the end of the day exhausted and decide to snack and watch TV or have some beers. If I went to the gym I'd feel fine, but I let myself of the hook because my days are a bit tougher than they were before kids. I still go to bed late and wake up tired, so in the end it's my fault because it's a nice excuse. The realty is if I adjusted my bed schedule not only would I have the time but I'd also not be as tired.

Kids don't make ya fat.

How is that insulting. Kids don't make you fat. So if anyone uses it as an excuse it's bullcarp.

And just to add, I think enabling your dependent children to become overweight or obese should qualify as child abuse.

Anyone who thinks it's okay to enable children to become overweight or obese need their head checked.

Added costs and stresses on the healthcare system, changes to our infrastructure to accommodate wider people, reduced lifespan, lower IQ, lesser quality of life, added costs to dispose of your oversized carcass when you expire, impact to your loved ones of losing someone far too early.

A lot of it is true, probably could be better worded. I've got family members that are overweight. I'd be annoyed if their lack of taking care of themselves ended spiraling out of control and left their kids or my family members without them due to an early death. The over sized carcass was a bit much, but it's the internet and a forum, people make sarcastic comments all the time and.... Well I'm sure you make little jokes about random things here and there in jest.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I guess the biggest question I have, is creationism, anti-vax, holistic stuff, etc. all has a massive, easily available body of work related to countering them. There are many vocal opponents to these social cancers.

Why then, does weight/obesity/whatever not have the same kind of readily available information? I don't need to watch a 3 hour video to learn why reiki is total garbage, I don't need to take a full course to understand that homeopathic medicine is quackery, or that Palmer chiropractic is horrifying nonsense.

You can check out the peer reviewed science here:

http://www.nature.com/ijo/index.html

[Thor]

Ranchland, you need to edit that, its hard to make sense of....

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Thor

You can check out the peer reviewed science here:

http://www.nature.com/ijo/index.html

See this is what I'm talking about, it's a massive dense depository of technical papers that take at least an hour each to sift through (and some require fore-knowledge of biology, biochemistry, genetics, metabolic systems, historical nutrition, psychology, etc. etc. etc.)

What I'm asking is, what does the modern science currently boil down to? There is always a short version that lays out the pertinent points, as well as a summary article that has references to sort through if you so choose to pursue them.

From what I'm gathering here, related to hyper-obesity, and of course correct me if I'm wrong, you are saying that the responsibility lies mostly in genetics/metabolic systems and there is a not insignificant percentage of the Western population who suffer from this.

What I want to know is percentages. What relevance do these people have within the greater population. You are very concerned with educating us, that much is obvious, but the gist of your rebuttals is generic claims and links to long videos or dense article compilations.

So, long story short, lets pick a country, say Canada as a reference point.

What percentage of Canada is overweight? How is overweight classified?

What percentage of Canada is obese? How is obese classified?

What percentage of obese persons in Canada suffer from obesity due to inactivity and poor nutrition? If neither of these things are the primary cause (and as you've mentioned, obesity is moving more towards being treated as a mental disorder first and foremost), then what percentage suffer psychologically that puts them at risk?

What percentage of obese persons in Canada have a glandular issue?

And I guess the million dollar question is, and pardon me for being gauche and asking it, is how much of obesity can be quantified as the fault/responsibility of the person? If the literature is again moving towards mental illness/deficiency, are we moving towards obesity treatments that are more in-line with how we treat drug addiction? Are there any studies that show that treating obesity like a drug addiction is successful? Are there studies refuting that treatment?

There are so many questions here, and repeatedly saying "THE SCIENCE SAYS THAT PEOPLE AREN'T FAT BECAUSE THEY ARE LAZY/EAT CRAP ALL THE TIME!" sounds terribly defensive.

It's a complicated issue, and I think you are just as guilty of trying to oversimplify (or at least, deflect to massive massive body of research that is difficult for a layman to read through, let alone understand) as anyone who says "calories in, calories out".

[Thor]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

See this is what I'm talking about, it's a massive dense depository of technical papers that take at least an hour each to sift through (and some require fore-knowledge of biology, biochemistry, genetics, metabolic systems, historical nutrition, psychology, etc. etc. etc.)

True, science is hard. Which is why there is so many science denialists, climate denialists, anti vaxxers, anti gmo'ers...

What I'm asking is, what does the modern science currently boil down to? There is always a short version that lays out the pertinent points, as well as a summary article that has references to sort through if you so choose to pursue them.

Hate to play this card again, but start with the BBC series, I linked to before. Then once you finish that series, you can read anything related to the gut biome and obesity research out there, which is in its early stages, but has a lot of promise.

From what I'm gathering here, related to hyper-obesity, and of course correct me if I'm wrong, you are saying that the responsibility lies mostly in genetics/metabolic systems and there is a not insignificant percentage of the Western population who suffer from this.

I don't know why you would suggest that, have you read anything of mine and others so far in this discussion? The responsibility has almost nothing to do with genetics, that would represent a tiny % of people suffering from obesity. There is however a number of studies that look at feast&famine and how that if your Grandparents where in feast you would be more likely to gain weight, and/or the reverse.

What I want to know is percentages. What relevance do these people have within the greater population. You are very concerned with educating us, that much is obvious, but the gist of your rebuttals is generic claims and links to long videos or dense article compilations.

"Generic claims" and "long videos".. which you have clearly not read or watched. Which is fine by me, not all of us care to spend the time to learn this stuff, but then why comment on it, is my counter argument.

Not sure what you want to know % wise, I keep repeating the numerous studies that show obese and severely obese have a success rate under 2%.

So, long story short, lets pick a country, say Canada as a reference point.What percentage of Canada is overweight? How is overweight classified?What percentage of Canada is obese? How is obese classified?

Other people should not have to do this research or spend the effort for you dude. If you want to know any of these answers, you can google it..

What percentage of obese persons in Canada suffer from obesity due to inactivity and poor nutrition? If neither of these things are the primary cause (and as you've mentioned, obesity is moving more towards being treated as a mental disorder first and foremost), then what percentage suffer psychologically that puts them at risk?

Not quite sure the question here. All Canadian's, American's, Europeans suffer from less activity. Poor nutrition? Well typically the poor can only afford high calorie, low nutrient density foods...

Again not exactly sure what you are asking here, does obesity have a mental component, yes, in fact the key to success from obesity is 95% mental.

What percentage of obese persons in Canada have a glandular issue?

No idea honestly, probably a very tiny number, less than 1% I would hazard a guess.

And I guess the million dollar question is, and pardon me for being gauche and asking it, is how much of obesity can be quantified as the fault/responsibility of the person?

How much is alcoholism the responsibility of the person.
How much is gambling the responsibility of the person.

I am not quite sure how you are asking these questions, as they have been addressed before earlier. Not even talking about the video or links to articles either.

If the literature is again moving towards mental illness/deficiency, are we moving towards obesity treatments that are more in-line with how we treat drug addiction? Are there any studies that show that treating obesity like a drug addiction is successful? Are there studies refuting that treatment?

In Iceland, a group I work with which treat's food addiction the same as other drug addictions does have a decent bit of success. There are worldwide food addict groups, the same as AA, ALANON, etc..

There are so many questions here, and repeatedly saying "THE SCIENCE SAYS THAT PEOPLE AREN'T FAT BECAUSE THEY ARE LAZY/EAT CRAP ALL THE TIME!" sounds terribly defensive.

Never said that, and the fact you did and did it in all caps says quite a bit about how you view the issue.. So far there has been a lot of answers to your questions, articles, studies, videos... But as most people do they skip them and continue to hold on to their dearly held beliefs as you seem to have done, but I hope at least you give that BBC series a watch as it will if nothing open your mind to some new ideas.

It's a complicated issue, and I think you are just as guilty of trying to oversimplify (or at least, deflect to massive massive body of research that is difficult for a layman to read through, let alone understand) as anyone who says "calories in, calories out".

I have from the start said, it is a very complex issue. The vast majority of my effort has been to call out those who simplify and demonize obesity in a way that counters the science and knowledge that we have on the subject.

[trackercowe]

I think much of it becomes a product of your work environment. When I started an office job last year I was 6'1, 240. I wasn't happy with how I looked or felt. Plus 90% of the people in office were either out of shape or drastically overweight.

I saw a freight train at the end of the tunnel, with my being depressed about my body for the rest of my life. Now for me it helps that once I form a positive addiction I never want to stop. So my buddy gave me his stationary bike and weights and I took off from there.

I literally biked two hours every single day from May 17th to the end of 2014. I did 100% of it on my own, no one even knew what I was doing, only that my appearance began to change. I enjoyed every minute of it, I would rush home many nights to take on the routine. It got to the point where I was doing it so excessively that my neighbors complained about the noise, and I was threatened with eviction.

By the end of the year I weighed about 200, and was mostly happy with my achievement, but knew I could do better. Truth be told my eating patterns didn't change, even if I've tried to eat healthier homemade meals, but when you live alone it can be a difficult task to maintain. So dieting hasn't had much to do with it.

After the whole eviction conversation I got a membership at the gym at my office. I started going there before and after work to keep up with the daily two hour workout. Here being a single guy does help as I don't have many commitments to keep. I pushed myself to a degree I had never been to, but where I had wanted to go. It also helped that I knew a few other guys from work who used the gym.

I was recently talking to someone who was hired at the same time I was and she actually gained 25 pounds since we began, as this is a job where all you do is sit all day long. So I know full well I could have gone in that direction.

Today I go to the gym during breaks as well, it gives me satisfaction seeing everyone go to the lunch room while I look past that in the quest to improve my health (and appearance). Where I was once overweight I now have athlete level conditioning (according to a fitness test I took), and less than 12% body fat. Still I'm not completely satisfied, and keep up at near the same pace. Recently I've began swimming a few times a week... which is just another addiction I enjoy. I do push-ups on the elevator, always use the stairs, run instead of walk, and do pull-ups if I pass overhead construction barriers.

Today I weigh 175 pounds, and my own father could not recognize me after he came back from an extended vacation. This story may sound make me into some crazed egomaniac, but I hope for some it does hold purpose. All I did at first was use a stationary bike (and occasionally lifted weights). Find a time in the day you have free and keep at it. Don't quit if you don't experience instant results. Results may differ, but today I really do believe anyone can be "fit" if they so choose to be.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Thor

True, science is hard. Which is why there is so many science denialists, climate denialists, anti vaxxers, anti gmo'ers...



Hate to play this card again, but start with the BBC series, I linked to before. Then once you finish that series, you can read anything related to the gut biome and obesity research out there, which is in its early stages, but has a lot of promise.



I don't know why you would suggest that, have you read anything of mine and others so far in this discussion? The responsibility has almost nothing to do with genetics, that would represent a tiny % of people suffering from obesity. There is however a number of studies that look at feast&famine and how that if your Grandparents where in feast you would be more likely to gain weight, and/or the reverse.



"Generic claims" and "long videos".. which you have clearly not read or watched. Which is fine by me, not all of us care to spend the time to learn this stuff, but then why comment on it, is my counter argument.

Not sure what you want to know % wise, I keep repeating the numerous studies that show obese and severely obese have a success rate under 2%.



Other people should not have to do this research or spend the effort for you dude. If you want to know any of these answers, you can google it..



Not quite sure the question here. All Canadian's, American's, Europeans suffer from less activity. Poor nutrition? Well typically the poor can only afford high calorie, low nutrient density foods...

Again not exactly sure what you are asking here, does obesity have a mental component, yes, in fact the key to success from obesity is 95% mental.



No idea honestly, probably a very tiny number, less than 1% I would hazard a guess.



How much is alcoholism the responsibility of the person.
How much is gambling the responsibility of the person.

I am not quite sure how you are asking these questions, as they have been addressed before earlier. Not even talking about the video or links to articles either.



In Iceland, a group I work with which treat's food addiction the same as other drug addictions does have a decent bit of success. There are worldwide food addict groups, the same as AA, ALANON, etc..



Never said that, and the fact you did and did it in all caps says quite a bit about how you view the issue.. So far there has been a lot of answers to your questions, articles, studies, videos... But as most people do they skip them and continue to hold on to their dearly held beliefs as you seem to have done, but I hope at least you give that BBC series a watch as it will if nothing open your mind to some new ideas.



I have from the start said, it is a very complex issue. The vast majority of my effort has been to call out those who simplify and demonize obesity in a way that counters the science and knowledge that we have on the subject.

I guess you missed the most important point: people are lazy. I'm lazy. Give me something that summarises the current state of the field that I can read in an hour and be done with it. We're not all going to become obesity researchers overnight, however asking for information to literally educate ourselves doesn't preclude us from participating in the discussion.

You want to win hearts and minds? Then make it easy to understand, and act like you give a #### about educating people rather than getting angry at them. What you are displaying is not passion; it is arrogance and irritation.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

I guess you missed the most important point: people are lazy. I'm lazy. Give me something that summarises the current state of the field that I can read in an hour and be done with it. We're not all going to become obesity researchers overnight, however asking for information to literally educate ourselves doesn't preclude us from participating in the discussion.

You want to win hearts and minds? Then make it easy to understand, and act like you give a #### about educating people rather than getting angry at them. What you are displaying is not passion; it is arrogance and irritation.

Thor has made it easy to understand. You don't want to do the homework but would rather get a quick Coles note summary. Either you are serious about wanting to learn or you're not. It's up to you.

[peter12]

Thor hasn't conclusively eliminated the need for human will through all this.

What are you saying, Thor? Losing significant weight and keeping it off is damn near impossible due to hormonal and metabolic functions that are incredibly complex. I think everyone would agree.

So how did you lose the weight and keep it off?

[peter12]

By the way. Thor has to be the huffiest, worst communicator of scientific knowledge I have seen on the forum. Science is hard. But so is writing clearly.

I found a good Scientific American piece that sums up quickly what Thor was trying to say. Fascinating stuff that certainly challenges the modern perception that will and control is everything.
http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...-fat-and-thin/

[TorqueDog]

Wow, I leave for a few days and things get mighty interested.

It's beautiful how Thor asks me a question, later refers to someone he knows talking about how people who haven't lost that much weight are the sorts who tend to hold these sorts of viewpoints, then decides that clearly I must have been a small-fat, then goes off on an insane tangent and finishes it off with cussing me out because I think parents should be held accountable to ensure their children don't become unhealthy through poor dietary options (which are primarily the responsibility of the parent/guardian). All before I even answer his questions, he's concluded all these great things about me based on no evidence.

Well damn, I wouldn't want to ruin his fun, so I'll leave it unanswered and we can see what other things he'll come up with to say about me.

---

What I will clarify is my statement of the hate yourself / love yourself sentence (the love yourself part which was integral to the message was clearly cut out to make me seem like a big meanie):

It was very much a statement that *I* took to heart during my trials and tribulations with weight. "I hate this. I'm better than this. I'm worth more than this." I finally reached a point where I was tired of what I'd become. I hated the way I looked naked, in clothing, in photos. I hated how I would make excuses when friends invited me out for activities because I knew I physically was unfit to do the things that would be involved and I'd be miserable. I hated that all this living was passing me by. I hated that -- despite eating 'healthy' -- I didn't lose weight.

So when I finally reached that breaking point, I decided that I was worth the effort to get things straight. That took researching what I really needed, and being a natural skeptic, filtering out all the crap from the usual sources (and some that I previously thought were legitimate). I wasn't raised with good eating habits. My dad has developed type 2 diabetes. My mom is overweight if not obese. So it took effort, and I'd spend evenings figuring out calories and macros for my goals. I'm a nerd, so I had a spreadsheet to plot out my ideal trajectory, tracking daily calorie limits (along with a good phone app) and a food scale. Because I love myself. I don't want to die early, become riddled with easily avoidable health issues, or even lose my breath because I went up a staircase too enthusiastically. Life is worth more than that; I'm worth more than that.

So that's the long version. You can't make a change without believing you're worth more than what you are, and if you don't keep pushing yourself in some way, how do you achieve better? Never be happy with the status quo. Push harder. You can use your own word to replace "hate" as ranchlandsselling said. The word hate worked and was accurate for my opinion of my physical condition and my lack of discipline toward it.


As for the claim that Calories In, Calories Out is nonsense, the article you posted is terrible.

http://authoritynutrition.com/debunk...-calorie-myth/

First sentence of the article:
I think the notion of "calories in vs. calories out" is ridiculous.

After the jump:
How much energy we eat and how much energy we expend matters. It is of utmost importance.

The first law of thermodynamics tells us that energy can not be destroyed, it can only change form. So if the energy that is entering the body is greater than the energy leaving the body, then the body will store the energy, usually as body fat.

If we take in more energy (calories) than we expend, we gain weight. If we expend more energy than we take in, we lose weight. This is an unbreakable law of physics and isn’t even debatable.

Ridiculous indeed, physics are so silly. Painting the claim "calories in, calories out" as synonymous with "a calorie is a calorie" when we know these aren't synonymous concepts, then talking about metabolic pathways, hormonal changes and the TEF (all of which explains why different calorie sources can influence our behavior and urges) as a way to discredit the former is disingenuous.

If you eat consume fewer calories than you burn, you will lose weight. Whether you lose weight through catabolizing muscle tissues (insufficient protein) or fat stores is not the concern of the claim, nor is the hormonal and behavioral impact of different foods or the metabolic cost to process different sources like fat, carbohydrate, and protein. Weight will go down if calories are reduced below maintenance levels, and weight will increase if calories are increased above maintenance levels. End of claim.

Originally Posted by Thor

One question I have for Torque, how long were you obese for, were you obese during childhood? How much total weight did you lose and how long have you kept it off for.

Good job on that by the way, never easy.

Really? Because I could have sworn you just discounted what I did because you have decided on no information that I was a small-fat and so clearly I can't possibly know what it's really like. This compliment rings hollow given your recent statements, and you can keep it. I don't need your congratulations, thanks.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Dion

Thor has made it easy to understand. You don't want to do the homework but would rather get a quick Coles note summary. Either you are serious about wanting to learn or you're not. It's up to you.

Hardly, Thor's posting has run the gamut of "here's my take on the research" smothered lovingly with high-horse sauce and bizarre indignant anger, to "here's a bunch of dense, time consuming information. Educate yourself pleb."

There exists a third option, simply pointing me to something a little more middle of the road, much like the SciAm article Peter12 posted above.

Edit: What I'm taking away is that coprophagia is our only option, and we should all start swapping poop ASAP.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by PsYcNeT

Edit: What I'm taking away is that coprophagia is our only option, and we should all start swapping poop ASAP.