[News] Olli Jokinen talks about his career

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Chemistry with Iginla aside, if Jokinen was that good of a #1 centre he would've found a way to produce. Jokinen was an ok centre, but certainly not a player that helped elevate the Flames in any meaningful way.

What the Flames needed was another player of Iginla's caliber. A gamebreaking player in his own right. There was hope that Jokinen could be that player, but he simply wasn't.

Again, I don't see how that's Iginla's fault. There's no real excuses for Jokinen, after a few great seasons in Florida he just wasn't that good, anywhere.

I agree, Jokinen just wasn't that good in Calgary.

I thought by the end he had been moulded into a good two-way player that (along with Glencross) ate a lot of tough matchups for the Flames.

If what Jokinen and Sutter have now said is true, I wonder how much more effective he could have been if there wasn't substantial problems in the dressing room.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

To bring this back to Jokinen, this gives a lot more context to what Darryl Sutter used to say about how Jokinen was 'never accepted' by the team.

Was Jokinen too professional?

Thanks for getting this back on track...

This, and the "answers are in the room" that was repeated over and over, really give you some insight into some of the problems that frustrated us (the jerkyl and hyde regular season, followed by 1st round exit).

Als, not that we didn't know that Keenan was crazy, but that story was crazy... a lot of people think the Phaneuf trade or Kotalik were his worst moves, but I'd say his worst move was bringing in Mike Keenan.

[Coach]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Flat out, if I am on the ice with Phaneuf, Bouwmeester, Tanguay, Conroy and Iginla, I am looking to pass it to Iginla.

Directly, or via Alex Tanguay?

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

To bring this back to Jokinen, this gives a lot more context to what Darryl Sutter used to say about how Jokinen was 'never accepted' by the team.

Was Jokinen too professional?

Or - we could look at the fact that we'd need to look back over a decade in Florida to see the last time Jokenin was anywhere near a top line level player.

He wasn't that same player before, during or after his time with the Flames. He is a long time removed from being an effective top line player and suggesting it had something to do with Iginla is outright laughable.

Jokenin was disappointing (relative to being a top line player) with the Flames, because he simply wasn't a top line caliber talent anymore.

[Zarley]

Disappointing to read about the Flames partying in Chicago during the lead up to a game, but not entirely surprising. Character issues seem to be one of the major factors in the continued underachievement of that team.

I can't believe that guys in today's NHL would go out partying before playoff games. Totally unprofessional and childish.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by heep223

My sense is that 90% of CP has the view that Iggy was a fantastic player, person and captain while he was here and also that it was time to move on. 5% take the extreme view that he should come back / should have never left and 5% take the extreme view that he was the real problem. The extremes are likely far more vocal than the majority, so I wouldn't read too much into it.

I readily celebrate Iginla for being a fantastic player, the best Flame ever. Without question.

Alot more than 5% (on this board at least) want him back which I just do not understand unless your fan impulses are guided 100% by nostalgia and emotion.

And a lot of fans also see how Iginla could have been part of the problem for the Flames in during the period of long decline but those fans are a relatively quiet bunch. Further, I've never said he was THE problem.

But I think it's a particular kind of myopia to not lay any blame at his feet. He openly challenged the coach, the locker room was a mess during periods of his captaincy, the team quit on a coach in the middle of the playoffs and they couldn't win a single playoff round. How could you not lay some of the blame for that on the team's best player?

But that's apparently sacriledge. No ill shall be said of Iginla among many fans. I don't get why I'm labelled a hater for just pointing this out? My point isn't to tar Iginla's reputation, it's highlight the problem when a player gets bigger than the team. There's no saying this couldn't happen again.

[AcGold]

The issue is that he's revered as a saint in Calgary. Maybe he was part of the problem maybe he wasn't but you won't get a warm reception opening up that can of worms.

I will say this though; there were many times where we'd give up 2 goals and the entire bench would sulk and give up, including Iginla. It was god damn embarrassing watching a bunch of millionaires sitting there feeling sorry for themselves in a competitive sport with the outcome still to be decided. I'll blame him for what I could see with my own eyes and I remember at least a dozen times yelling at my TV hoping for Iginla to do something besides sit there and pout while they were giving the game away.

Can't imagine Gio would react the same as captain because he never has, I've never seen him give up no matter how bad the momentum had turned

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

But that's apparently sacriledge. No ill shall be said of Iginla among many fans. I don't get why I'm labelled a hater for just pointing this out?

Because it's an outright agenda with you. You do it every time Iginla is mentioned, in a snide drive-by-trolling like fashion.

It's as boring as it is a cheap grab for attention on your part.

There is no topic on this forum where Iginla is the subject of discussion that doesn't feature you and Flash Walken beating your tired, hateful drum. It's at the point where as fans of this organization, it's just outright odd.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Because it's an outright agenda with you. You do it every time Iginla is mentioned, in a snide drive-by-trolling like fashion.

It's as boring as it is a cheap grab for attention on your part.

There is no topic on this forum where Iginla is the subject of discussion that doesn't feature you and Flash Walken beating your tired, hateful drum. It's at the point where as fans of this organization, it's just outright odd.

The definition of an ad hominem fallacy and a failure in argument. This basically proves my point. Question Iginla? Get called out personally. Avoid having to talk about the issue. Feel good about oneself.

Tell me why you think Iginla deserves no blame for the failure of the post 2004 era Flames without mentioning me specifically.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

The definition of an ad hominem fallacy and a failure in argument. This basically proves my point. Question Iginla? Get called out personally. Avoid having to talk about the issue. Feel good about oneself.

Tell me why you think Iginla deserves no blame for the failure of the post 2004 era Flames without mentioning me specifically.

Criticism of Iginla in and of itself is fine. But it's all. you. do.

That takes it beyond having a reasonable opinion on a subject and makes it a bizarre, enduring obsession. You literally scan for and interject into any subject about Iginla with the sole purpose of tossing in some single, sarcastic negative slanted quip. It happens every time without fail. You have made it your mission as a Flames fan to monitor for any mention of the franchise's best ever player just to add sarcastic and unrelenting criticism like it's a paid position. Again, it's just weird.

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

Criticism of Iginla in and of itself is fine. But it's all. you. do.

That takes it beyond having a reasonable opinion on a subject and makes it a bizarre, enduring obsession. You literally scan for and interject into any subject about Iginla with the sole purpose of tossing in some single, sarcastic negative slanted quip. It happens every time without fail. You have made it your mission as a Flames fan to monitor for any mention of the franchise's best ever player just to add sarcastic and unrelenting criticism like it's a paid position. Again, it's just weird.

More ad hominem. I'll take this post as your ungracious acknowledgement that you can't argue this point.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

More ad hominem. I'll take this post as your ungracious acknowledgement that you can't argue this point.

The smoking gun here is that any mere mention of Iginla (in any context) compels you to automatically vent negativity.

Where (in this thread or anywhere else) did anyone ever assert "Iginla deserves no blame for the failure of the post 2004 era Flames"?

They didn't.

It's all pretext with you to conceal some bizarre, underlaying agenda to slight him at any given opportunity.

Each post above is just your attempt to deflect away from this fact, and it couldn't be any more see-through.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by GoJetsGo

The smoking gun here is that any mere mention of Iginla (in any context) compels you to automatically vent negativity.

Where (in this thread or anywhere else) did anyone ever assert "Iginla deserves no blame for the failure of the post 2004 era Flames"?

They didn't.

It's all pretext with you to conceal some bizarre, underlaying agenda to slight him at any given opportunity.

Each post above is just your attempt to deflect away from this fact, and it couldn't be any more see-through.

Put him on ignore then. Simple.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Tinordi

Tell me why you think Iginla deserves no blame for the failure of the post 2004 era Flames without mentioning me specifically.

Who is saying no blame?

[MrMastodonFarm]

A shocking lack of answer.