So what happens with Glencross?

[OldDutch]

Speaking of irony, to think that Penner and Vanek offer sheets will come back to bite the Oilers in 3 years when they are forced to offer McDavid $8-$10+ million long term so they negate any offer sheets. Combine that with a Canadian dollar that looks like it is headed to the 70 cent range over the next few years, and may finally shrink the cap. Oilers may become the shortest lived non dynasty ever. McDavid, Nurse, the usual suspects, and a bunch of spare parts. Essentially today's situation.

Kevin Lowe may finally rue the day he acted like a numb skull and did those sheets. Oilers will be in tough if they don't win it all in the next 3 years, and if they do even worse. There won't be a lot of room to sign a Glencross or anyone of any quality for that matter.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

This isn't about Glencross. The market for UFAs is weakening as teams have to devote more cap-space to young RFAs.


NHL free agents becoming desperate as money dries up in a buyers’ market

"Many teams still need to sign their key restricted free agents, and with young players getting paid like never before, GMs have been forced to allocate more dollars and term for those contracts."

This is the 2nd article I've seen now that has suggested we're seeing young players being paid more than ever before. I don't get it. Young players today aren't even getting paid as much as they were circa 2010... and the cap was around 58 million back then, so the percentage of cap space devoted to those young players was much higher.

We just signed 22yo franchise Dman, Dougie Hamilton, to a 6yr deal worth 5.75M per year (8% of today's cap).
In the summer of 2008, we signed 23yo "franchise Dman", Dion Phaneuf, to a 6yr deal worth 6.5M per year (11.5% of the 2008/09 cap).

The examples extend to other teams and players as well. These articles suggesting the early 20s players are being paid more than ever are just flat-out wrong.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by OldDutch

Speaking of irony, to think that Penner and Vanek offer sheets will come back to bite the Oilers in 3 years when they are forced to offer McDavid $8-$10+ million long term so they negate any offer sheets. Combine that with a Canadian dollar that looks like it is headed to the 70 cent range over the next few years, and may finally shrink the cap. Oilers may become the shortest lived non dynasty ever. McDavid, Nurse, the usual suspects, and a bunch of spare parts. Essentially today's situation.

I absolutely believe that the Oil will have to pay McDavid 12M+ per year on his next contract, as I'm sure someone else will. I believe this is why so many teams met with him at the draft, despite knowing there was a 0% chance of drafting him. They were posturing for 3 years down the road.

If Nurse lives up to his potential, I'd expect a 6-7M offer sheet to go his way as well.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

We just signed 22yo franchise Dman, Dougie Hamilton, to a 6yr deal worth 5.75M per year (8% of today's cap).
In the summer of 2008, we signed 23yo "franchise Dman", Dion Phaneuf, to a 6yr deal worth 6.5M per year (11.5% of the 2008/09 cap).

To add some context... if we were to devote the same amount of cap space to Hamilton as we did to Phaneuf in 2008, we'd have signed Hamilton to a 6yr deal worth 8.25M annually.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by mikephoen

And when I look at that, I think: Highway robbery!

Couldn't agree more. I wanted the Flames to draft Kylington 15th in our draft poll. The Hamilton trade was a massive fleecing on its own but if Kylington pans out that could be some of the best asset management the Flames have ever done

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

This is the 2nd article I've seen now that has suggested we're seeing young players being paid more than ever before. I don't get it. Young players today aren't even getting paid as much as they were circa 2010... and the cap was around 58 million back then, so the percentage of cap space devoted to those young players was much higher.

We just signed 22yo franchise Dman, Dougie Hamilton, to a 6yr deal worth 5.75M per year (8% of today's cap).
In the summer of 2008, we signed 23yo "franchise Dman", Dion Phaneuf, to a 6yr deal worth 6.5M per year (11.5% of the 2008/09 cap).

The examples extend to other teams and players as well. These articles suggesting the early 20s players are being paid more than ever are just flat-out wrong.

Hamilton and Phaneuf aren't really comparable players though.

Phanuef had three huge seasons when he signed his extension. He was a Norris finalist in the last year of his entry level contract.

Hamilton has had one big season thus far.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Hamilton and Phaneuf aren't really comparable players though.

Phanuef had three huge seasons when he signed his extension. He was a Norris finalist in the last year of his entry level contract.

Hamilton has had one big season thus far.

Phaneuf had some development set backs (I think the hip issues were more of a hindrance than haters like to believe) and people forget exactly where he was at when he received that contract. Many people thought he was head and shoulders above his peers. Hamilton is great and has franchise defenseman potential, but I don't think his stock was as high as Phaneuf's was at the time.

Fortunately, hindsight is kind to us now when it comes to Phaneuf, but that was a benefit that no one had at the time.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Hamilton and Phaneuf aren't really comparable players though.

Phanuef had three huge seasons when he signed his extension. He was a Norris finalist in the last year of his entry level contract.

Hamilton has had one big season thus far.

I guess Doughty would be a better comparable to that Phaneuf contract. Was nominated for the Norris in his sophomore season.

2011 - Doughty 8yrs @ 7M AAV - 10.8% of cap

Lower percentage of cap than Phaneuf's deal that was signed 3 years prior, for a player that had just as much, likely more hype than Dion.

Next year, 22yo Karlsson won the Norris, and signed a 7yr deal @ 6.5M AAV - 10.8%.

Looking at the contracts you can see that 2007-2010 was the peak, and it's trended down since then not only in value, but in term as well.

2009 - 56.8M cap
Paul Stastny - 5yrs @ 6.6M AAV - 11.6% of cap
Phil Kessel - 5yrs @ 5.4M - 9.5%
Milan Lucic - 3yrs @ 4.1M - 7.3%
Jordan Staal - 4yrs @ 4.0M - 7.0%

2010 - 59.4M cap
Nicklas Backstrom - 10yrs @ 6.7M - 11.3%
Jonathan Toews - 5yrs @ 6.5M - 10.9%
Patrick Kane - 5yrs @ 6.5M - 10.9%
Bobby Ryan - 5yrs @ 5.1M - 8.6%

2013 - 60M cap
Alex Pietrangelo - 7yrs @ 6.4M - 10.6%
Taylor Hall - 6yrs @ 6M - 10.0%
Tyler Seguin - 5yrs @ 5.65M - 9.4%
Jamie Benn - 5yrs @ 5.25M - 8.7%
Cam Fowler - 5yrs @ 4.0M - 6.7%
Matt Duchene - 2yrs @ 3.5M - 5.8%
Derek Stepan - 2yrs @ 3.1M - 5.2%
P.K. Subban - 2yrs @ 2.9M - 4.8%
Sean Couturier - 2yrs @ 1.75M - 2.9%

2014 - 69M cap
Justin Faulk - 6yrs @ 4.83M - 7.0%
Ryan Johansen - 3yrs @ 4.0M - 5.8%
Brendan Gallagher - 6yrs @ 3.75M - 5.4%
Ondrej Palat - 3yrs @ 3.33M - 4.8%
Chris Kreider - 2yrs @ 2.5M - 3.6%
Jaden Schwartz - 2yrs @ 2.35M - 3.4%

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

I guess Doughty would be a better comparable to that Phaneuf contract. Was nominated for the Norris in his sophomore season.

2011 - Doughty 8yrs @ 7M AAV - 10.8% of cap

Lower percentage of cap than Phaneuf's deal that was signed 3 years prior, for a player that had just as much, likely more hype than Dion.

Next year, 22yo Karlsson won the Norris, and signed a 7yr deal @ 6.5M AAV - 10.8%.

Looking at the contracts you can see that 2007-2010 was the peak, and it's trended down since then not only in value, but in term as well.

2009 - 56.8M cap
Paul Stastny - 5yrs @ 6.6M AAV - 11.6% of cap
Phil Kessel - 5yrs @ 5.4M - 9.5%
Milan Lucic - 3yrs @ 4.1M - 7.3%
Jordan Staal - 4yrs @ 4.0M - 7.0%

2010 - 59.4M cap
Nicklas Backstrom - 10yrs @ 6.7M - 11.3%
Jonathan Toews - 5yrs @ 6.5M - 10.9%
Patrick Kane - 5yrs @ 6.5M - 10.9%
Bobby Ryan - 5yrs @ 5.1M - 8.6%

2013 - 60M cap
Alex Pietrangelo - 7yrs @ 6.4M - 10.6%
Taylor Hall - 6yrs @ 6M - 10.0%
Tyler Seguin - 5yrs @ 5.65M - 9.4%
Jamie Benn - 5yrs @ 5.25M - 8.7%
Cam Fowler - 5yrs @ 4.0M - 6.7%
Matt Duchene - 2yrs @ 3.5M - 5.8%
Derek Stepan - 2yrs @ 3.1M - 5.2%
P.K. Subban - 2yrs @ 2.9M - 4.8%
Sean Couturier - 2yrs @ 1.75M - 2.9%

2014 - 69M cap
Justin Faulk - 6yrs @ 4.83M - 7.0%
Ryan Johansen - 3yrs @ 4.0M - 5.8%
Brendan Gallagher - 6yrs @ 3.75M - 5.4%
Ondrej Palat - 3yrs @ 3.33M - 4.8%
Chris Kreider - 2yrs @ 2.5M - 3.6%
Jaden Schwartz - 2yrs @ 2.35M - 3.4%

Ok. I'm on board now. That's definitely a good sign for teams with plus young talent coming down the pipe.

I think the giddyness of the economy in general seeped into the minds of GM's back when the Dollar was high.

There is no way a guy like Gomez gets $7 million per season now.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

This is the 2nd article I've seen now that has suggested we're seeing young players being paid more than ever before. I don't get it. Young players today aren't even getting paid as much as they were circa 2010... and the cap was around 58 million back then, so the percentage of cap space devoted to those young players was much higher.

We just signed 22yo franchise Dman, Dougie Hamilton, to a 6yr deal worth 5.75M per year (8% of today's cap).
In the summer of 2008, we signed 23yo "franchise Dman", Dion Phaneuf, to a 6yr deal worth 6.5M per year (11.5% of the 2008/09 cap).

The examples extend to other teams and players as well. These articles suggesting the early 20s players are being paid more than ever are just flat-out wrong.

You're looking at it in the wrong context. Comparing one individual player against another individual player neither proves nor disproves the argument that younger players, as a class, are making more at the expense of older players.

That younger players are making more should be considered self-evident as both the salary floor and the rookie max have increased.