It's a fairly apt comment, though, no? Christianity has dominated North American life for so long that I think Christians sometimes feel that anything less than full acceptance of their beliefs is persecution.
I find it fascinating to watch society slowly push Christianity to the wayside in favor of catering to all races, religion and cultures and seeing Christians act whoa is me.
As is the case with most religion my personal opinion is that Christianity can be very fulfilling and important, even life saving to individuals, but discriminative and hateful when practiced and put upon society as a whole. Christianity and the way it's beliefs are forced on society in a bigoted, hateful way deserves all the criticism it receives. And that's coming from someone who was raised Christian.
Yes it can be discriminating but those people are in the vast minority. The idea that Christianity and discrimination go hand in hand is just not true, yes some of them are like that but this issue is rather complex as a lot of so-called Christians are not behaving in a Christian manner.
Secondly I think it's an incredibly condescending comment. It's akin to a small Muslim group saying hateful things and responding with a comment about how all Muslims are hateful. It's just not true, the idea that Christians are going around shoving their beliefs on people is a misconception. These people are zealots of a church, that is all.
I'm not religious but I see the inequality where it's heresy to talk about certain religions and beliefs while it's fine to treat a certain group as if they have no rights. In my experience Christians are the most tolerant group of people and it's a small minority that ruin it. Like saying the Westboro Baptist church is epresentative for a billion or so people.
Secondly I think it's an incredibly condescending comment. It's akin to a small Muslim group saying hateful things and responding with a comment about how all Muslims are hateful. It's just not true, the idea that Christians are going around shoving their beliefs on people is a misconception. These people are zealots of a church, that is all.
When Christian bigotry and discrimination finds its way into state and federal law then yes that is the definition of shoving beliefs on people, and that's what I was mostly referring to as that's where the thread bump came from.
Christianity has way too much negative influence in North America and thankfully Canada has at least started to turn its back on Christianity as the overbearing/ruling religion politically, but even we have a ways to go.
The US however............oh boy.
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When I hear people refer to themselves as "Christians" it isn't referring to all of Christianity. It's a group of often unaffiliated churches with people that believe in the "born again" experience living in the holy spirit, speaking in tongues and believing in miraculous healing. It often comes from lay preachers with little theological learning so their biases get passed on to their followers who have even less knowledge, are easily led and so we get people like this marriage certificate lady who thinks she is doing God's work. At least this is what I've seen.
Beginning to dislike the anti Christian bias going on in this forum. If I said something bad about gay people, not that I would, people would lose their minds.
One of these things is not like the other...
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Christianity is a good thing for a lot of people and that's not what the problem is.
The problem stems from people acting as if Christianity is their own personal sports team and that anything that doesn't go along with their "team" should be defeated and destroyed. Mind you that they lack the awareness that they are actually acting contrary to their religion when they act in that manner. It is that hypocrisy that people are criticizing rather than the religion itself.
I myself am not a Christian and I do criticize when people act in a hypocritical manner, but what is different is that for me it does not matter whether a person is Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, Hindu, or Athiest. Act according to what your beliefs are or you are subject to criticism as you should be. If you are Christian, then act more like what the current pope is as he is the first pope in a long time that has been acting more like what the teachings of the religion is supposed to be, not a hateful bigot like Kim Davis. That is why people generally take pot shots at certain aspects and members of a religion. It does not mean that they are pillorying the entire group, rather just those that are worthy of such scorn.
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Last edited by Caged Great; 09-20-2015 at 12:30 AM.
Christianity is a good thing for a lot of people and that's not what the problem is.
The problem stems from people acting as if Christianity is their own personal sports team and that anything that doesn't go along with their "team" should be defeated and destroyed. Mind you that they lack the awareness that they are actually acting contrary to their religion when they act in that manner. It is that hypocrisy that people are criticizing rather than the religion itself.
I myself am not a Christian and I do criticize when people act in a hypocritical manner, but what is different is that for me it does not matter whether a person is Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Jewish, Hindu, or Athiest. Act according to what your beliefs are or you are subject to criticism as you should be. If you are Christian, then act more like what the current pope is as he is the first pope in a long time that has been acting more like what the teachings of the religion is supposed to be, not a hateful bigot like Kim Davis. That is why people generally take pot shots at certain aspects and members of a religion. It does not mean that they are pillorying the entire group, rather just those that are worthy of such scorn.
What you're missing (as a former fairly devout Christian) is that the religion explicitly requires you to make your "team" win. You are not allowed to allow "live and let live" as that fundamentally goes against Jesus teachings to love your neighbor as yourself. If you don't want you neighbors to go to hell, you must not let them live in sin and not repent. Ie. Don't let homosexuals have sex or be normal as that will send them to hell.
I acknowledge that you and i know this is not the reason most of these people act this way, but it is their defense.
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Catching up on VICE on HBO and they had a pretty horrifying piece. I guess if you can't kill or spread hate about people you don't like at home, you teach the third world to do it for you.
American Christian extremists have found a willing host in Uganda, where they have so dramatically affected the culture that average citizens now consider raping and killing gay people a duty.
In the VICE episode, Bahati refuses to name any one of his American partners, but Inhofe is clearly one. Also among Bahati's supporters and partners are Scott Lively, Pastor Rick Warren, Sharon Slater, and the World Congress of Families. And Bahati makes clear he and his country support the culture these American Christian extremists have brought to Uganda – one that teaches, falsely, that gay people are all pedophiles, homosexuality is a choice, it is evil, and children must be protected from it at all costs.
"We hate that one [homosexuality] completely," one of the men tell her. "If we find a woman with a woman, we will pull out one and we will do it to her." He's of course talking about rape. "We cannot allow a woman to have sex with a fellow woman."
Yeung asks, "Have you ever raped a lesbian?"
"Yeah," the man replies. "Serious raping."
Then Yeung asks, "So what would you do if you saw a gay man?"
"Kill! Kill! You kill that one! Kill! I just kill them. Woman and woman we rape, but man and man we kill."
What the clip above does not show, but the VICE episode does, is that American Christians have brought this culture to Uganda. While the nation has never been gay friendly, the country's war on homosexuality is a direct response to the teachings of American Christians.
The Daily Show did a good expose on that situation, spent a good week on it. Obviously didn't get any real traction because it's in Africa and didn't involve a lion with a first name.
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The fact that any candidate in US politics that isn't a christian man has virtually zero chance of winning an election tells you what's wrong with that Country.
When she returned to work last week, she confiscated the marriage licences and replaced them. The new licences say they were issued not under the authority of the county clerk, but “pursuant to federal court order.”
But on Monday, lawyers for the American Civil Liberties Union wrote that the validity of the altered licences is “questionable at best,” and that the new licences bring “humiliation and stigma” to the gay couples who receive them. They asked U.S. District Judge David Bunning to order Davis’ office to reissue the licenses. If Davis interferes, the lawyers say Bunning should place her office in a receivership for the purposes of issuing marriage licenses.
“The adulterated marriage licences received by Rowan County couples will effectively feature a stamp of animus against the LGBT community, signalling that, in Rowan County, the government’s position is that LGBT couples are second-class citizens unworthy of official recognition and authorization of their marriage licences but for this Court’s intervention and Order,” the lawyers for the couples wrote in a court filing.
When Christian bigotry and discrimination finds its way into state and federal law then yes that is the definition of shoving beliefs on people, and that's what I was mostly referring to as that's where the thread bump came from.
Christianity has way too much negative influence in North America and thankfully Canada has at least started to turn its back on Christianity as the overbearing/ruling religion politically, but even we have a ways to go.
The US however............oh boy.
Christianity IS western culture. Every single notion you have about helping the poor, respecting the dignity of the person etc... is borrowed wholesale from Christianity.
The dominant myth of modernity is that individuals somehow had to escape from the backwards clutches of the ruling churches. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Christianity IS western culture. Every single notion you have about helping the poor, respecting the dignity of the person etc... is borrowed wholesale from Christianity.
The dominant myth of modernity is that individuals somehow had to escape from the backwards clutches of the ruling churches. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
So positivism plays absolutely no role in morality?
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Exp:
Kim Davis represents everything that is wrong with Christianity today. It's okay to do anything you want against your beliefs because you will be forgiven.
Quote:
Davis admits that she hasn’t always been a “good” person. She has been married four times and had children in an adulterous relationship, but she doesn’t consider herself a hypocrite.
“No, I’m forgiven,” she said. “Washed clean.”
Quote:
"What probably hurt me the worst is when someone tells me that my God does not love me or that my God is not happy with me, that I am a hypocrite of a Christian."
Quote:
Davis is still refusing to put her name on marriage licenses, forcing her deputies to take over those duties. She does not believe that the altered licenses are valid.
“They’re not valid in God’s eyes, for one,” she said.
I don't know about positivism but morality isn't a Christian or even a religious way of life. Anyone who's aware of themselves and how we interact knows about morality.
Having said that yeah our culture is heavily influenced by Christianity for better or worse. The thing about the institution is that it's been corrupt since shortly after Jesus' death and as a arbitrator of morality, it's lost it's way.
I'd argue the fact that we're even having a debate about the morality of homosexuality despite the Christianity's stance on it would suggest that you're wrong.
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I would say that arguing about the particular dignity of a person regardless of who they are means I am right.
You're moving the goalposts. If people are moving away from the position on homosexuality espoused by official Christian doctrine, then clearly there must be something else that is guiding their morals. It's not like homosexuality is the only instance where this is occurring. Not to mention the fact that Christianity can't explain why people from different cultures, including those who haven't been exposed to Christianity, often hold similar morals.
You're moving the goalposts. If people are moving away from the position on homosexuality espoused by official Christian doctrine, then clearly there must be something else that is guiding their morals. It's not like homosexuality is the only instance where this is occurring. Not to mention the fact that Christianity can't explain why people from different cultures, including those who haven't been exposed to Christianity, often hold similar morals.
This is also moving the goalposts. What Christian doctrine? The doctrine of marriage?
What similar morals? Do unto others? Yes, the Golden Rule is universally held.
