If Kingston is out, should the Flames bring in Bennett

[Fan in Exile]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Well, I guess we can argue that point. I think it's anti-development. He hasn't played a single regular season game, we are going to throw him into the fire? There's literally no downside to letting him take it a step at a time.

Let's think like the Wings here. Slow and steady with development. He'll have a whole camp next year to warm up, and pretty much everyone thinks he'll make it. Why rush it more than that?

For the record, this is pretty much a 65-35 thing for me. There probably isn't a huge problem with having him play here either. It would be fun to watch him, I agree. I'm not railing against it, just presenting my arguments. I just don't get the point of it. As I said, let's copy the success of the best development team in the league. Even the slim chance of this affecting his development in a negative way when there is no reason to isn't worth it, as there is no real reason for him to be here anyway.

There's lots of time in the future playing in the NHL will be good for his development.

You take your players as they are. No sensible team takes a one size fits all approach. The Wings do not have a player like Bennett in their system.

How about our own system? Was Monahan or Gaudreau's development ruined by bypassing the AHL?

[YogiBerra]

If Adirondack was guaranteed to make the playoffs I would send him down there but if they get swept tonight he will have about 7 regular season games in the Ahl. While if he is up in the Nhl he will probably only play 3 regular season games but the chances of making the playoffs are much higher. So in the end he will play about the same amount of games might as well make them Nhl games so he can be more prepared for next year. Some depth scoring and the spark of a dynamic young forward coming up could be big for this team. Plus his first game will likely be Arizona so it will be an easier transition.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

It does

It does not.

CBA, Article 13.12(l):

During the period following 3:00 p.m. New York time of the fortieth (40th) day immediately preceding the final day of the Regular Season, and continuing through and including the last day of the Regular Season, no Player may be Recalled from Loan to a club of any league affiliated with the NHL, except that:

(i) A Club may exercise four (4) regular Recalls from a club or clubs of any league affiliated with the NHL, of Player(s) listed on its own Reserve List.
(ii) Players may be Recalled under Article 13.12(m). (Emergency recall)
(iii) Players may be Recalled upon completion of the regular season and playoff schedule of the club to which they were Loaned.

[metal_geek]

I would love to see him play, but I don't think putting him in is good idea for his development. While there is a chance he comes out of it on a positive note, there is a bigger chance he sees limited minutes, scratched, makes a few mistakes and ends up spending the summer with a bad taste. Even johnny got scratched after a few games and if the same thing happened to bennett there are no "recovery" games for him. There is just no wiggle room for him to fail at this point in the season.

Possible if the team gets down and needs some kinda spark, inserting him might be an option like seguin in bostons cup run, but at this point in the season theres not a lot of room for on the job NHL training.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by getbak

It does not.

CBA, Article 13.12(l):

That only days they may recall him, no? Seems to me that's still part of the 4 recalls

[YogiBerra]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

That only days they may recall him, no? Seems to me that's still part of the 4 recalls

The first part mentions that to be part of the 4 regular recalls the player has to be recalled from a club affiliated with the Nhl team. since Kingston isn't he wouldn't count under that provision.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Well, I guess we can argue that point. I think it's anti-development. He hasn't played a single regular season game, we are going to throw him into the fire? There's literally no downside to letting him take it a step at a time.

Let's think like the Wings here. Slow and steady with development. He'll have a whole camp next year to warm up, and pretty much everyone thinks he'll make it. Why rush it more than that?

For the record, this is pretty much a 65-35 thing for me. There probably isn't a huge problem with having him play here either. It would be fun to watch him, I agree. I'm not railing against it, just presenting my arguments. I just don't get the point of it. As I said, let's copy the success of the best development team in the league. Even the slim chance of this affecting his development in a negative way when there is no reason to isn't worth it, as there is no real reason for him to be here anyway.

There's lots of time in the future playing in the NHL will be good for his development.

I would argue that the Wings' 1st round picks are usually in the 16-30 range. Those players aren't as talented as the top 5ers.

Just like Monahan, Sam Bennett looked ready to play in the NHL. Unfortunately, an injury occurred. He goes to the OHL and fires it up. I think he's ready.

[PeteMoss]

The Red Wings system doesn't perclude them from calling up players. They just wait to bring them up full-time. Nyquist to use an example was called up for decent stretches for two years before his break-out last year and played in the playoffs for the Wings as well.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Let's think like the Wings here.

Okay.

Sam Bennett was a 4th overall pick in 2014.
Steve Yzerman was a 4th overall pick in 1983.
Steve Yzerman's rookie season was 1983-84.
It's 2014-15.

I'm done thinking like the Wings. I like.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

That only days they may recall him, no? Seems to me that's still part of the 4 recalls

No, those are the three situations under which a player can be recalled between the trade deadline and the end of the regular season.

You can make 4 regular recalls from the AHL/ECHL; or you can recall players to fill out your roster when in an emergency situation; or you can recall a player when his season on his other team is complete.

Bennett is basically in the same situation as a College Player joining an NHL team late in the season, except he signed his contract last summer instead of at the end of the season.



My understanding of the rule is that it's not to punish NHL teams by limiting their player decisions, it's to protect the AHL teams by limiting the number of players they can lose to the NHL late in the season after the roster limit has been lifted (the limited number of player moves also prevents teams from dumping waiver-exempt NHL players into the AHL after the NHL season is over, to bolster the AHL team for the playoffs).

There is also no limit on recalls once an AHL team's season is complete. Once a player's season is complete elsewhere, it would just be punishing the player to prevent him from joining his NHL team if they want him.

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by Fan in Exile

You take your players as they are. No sensible team takes a one size fits all approach. The Wings do not have a player like Bennett in their system.

How about our own system? Was Monahan or Gaudreau's development ruined by bypassing the AHL?

Well using those as comparison for bypassing it would be just as much a one size fits all solution as mine would be wouldn't it? I agree, players should be looked at individually. I don't know nearly as much as the Flames staff, but I'm guessing most others don't either.

Monahan was obviously ready, but everyone agrees, he's mature beyond his years. Gaudreau, while missing out on the AHL, was already older and had what, 3 years of college?

I just don't get the point of rushing him this late in the season. Let him do a camp. If this was the beginning of the season, sure. But it's not.

As I said, just my opinion. I'm not going to die for this hill, lol. We'll see what the coaches do.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Daradon

Well using those as comparison for bypassing it would be just as much a one size fits all solution as mine would be wouldn't it? I agree, players should be looked at individually. I don't know nearly as much as the Flames staff, but I'm guessing most others don't either.

Monahan was obviously ready, but everyone agrees, he's mature beyond his years. Gaudreau, while missing out on the AHL, was already older and had what, 3 years of college?

I just don't get the point of rushing him this late in the season. Let him do a camp. If this was the beginning of the season, sure. But it's not.

As I said, just my opinion. I'm not going to die for this hill, lol. We'll see what the coaches do.

I said it aboev - I don't think the PO push is the time, but I do think the POs themselves aren't a bad idea. For some reason I think the latter would be less pressure.

[GoJetsGo]

Originally Posted by Daradon

I just don't get the point of rushing him this late in the season. Let him do a camp. If this was the beginning of the season, sure. But it's not.

This would have been a more valid take a few weeks ago. At that point, I agreed that coming off surgery it would have been rushing him to put him on the NHL roster.

But he's had a month of hockey in the OHL where he outright dominated and looked like a man among boys.

Now that his health is no longer a concern and he has significant game time in (while his team was battling for the playoffs), there is not the same level of concern as it pertains to rushing him when he's not ready.

His body is ready. He's up to game speed. For all intents and purposes he's a number one overall caliber player and he could very well be a factor in helping the big club make the playoffs as he's a better option than many in our forward ranks.

[Iggy Snipe]

If Kingston gets knocked out before the regular season, get Bennett up with the Flames and slot him in the lineup. He will give the Flames a better chance to win over other guys (Granlund/Byron/Jorris etc...). Theres no hiding it, he is ready to play in the NHL, if not this season, he will be next season.

He is not an unfamiliar face either, so it shouldn't mess with the team chemistry too much.

[D-Red]

Bring him to the NHL, and I'm not even necessarily suggesting he dress. This team has made decisions on line-ups all year based on how guys have looked/performed in practice. If he stands out compared to other guys (especially the in and outs like Bollig, Ferland, Granlund, Shore) I guarantee he makes his way in.

If he looks a step behind in practice and never dresses, big deal. He is still gaining invaluable experience being around the team for an NHL playoff hunt and hopefully playoff run. Especially a team like this that if nothing else has been continuously complimented for its work ethic and drive all year long. All for what? Missing out, 7 AHL games? Whoopee...

If he really needs those AHL games to help his development, he can have them at the beginning of next year....

[getbak]

Originally Posted by D-Red

If he really needs those AHL games to help his development, he can have them at the beginning of next year....

Nope. Because of his age, it's NHL or OHL against next season (he can only join the Heat after his OHL season ends, just like this year).

[D-Red]

Originally Posted by getbak

Nope. Because of his age, it's NHL or OHL against next season (he can only join the Heat after his OHL season ends, just like this year).

Ah right! Thanks getbak.

That aside, I still stand by the crux of my argument that the experience in being around this kind of team in this kind of situation provides just as much if not more value in development than the 7 games at a lower level with a team that is essentially eliminated from playoff contention.

And FWIW, I'd be willing to bet he makes the show out of camp next year anyway.....

[hockey.modern]

Anyone know what time their game starts and where to watch?

[JohnnyTitan]

FWIW -> Both Edmonton and Phoenix have been bringing up young guys and trying them out for most of the past month or two.

What a great time for the Flames to introduce Bennett to the NHL! I guarantee he's much more NHL-worthy than the spares getting auditions in those other locales.

Go North Bay! See you on Saturday Sam!