Prentice Blames Albertans

[killer_carlson]

sooooooo

Prentice floats the sales tax and gets the thumbs down

Then cuts to the public service which goes over like a lead balloon in Edmonton

Now he floats massive cuts to government services which puts the party into damage control...

what's next? increase in oil royalties?

[Tinordi]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

sooooooo

Prentice floats the sales tax and gets the thumbs down

Then cuts to the public service which goes over like a lead balloon in Edmonton

Now he floats massive cuts to government services which puts the party into damage control...

what's next? increase in oil royalties?

arithmetic sucks

Prentice is right, Albertans are to blame. Politically, they want services and don't want to pay for them. Their politicians thus reflect that.

[CaramonLS]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

sooooooo

Prentice floats the sales tax and gets the thumbs down

Then cuts to the public service which goes over like a lead balloon in Edmonton

Now he floats massive cuts to government services which puts the party into damage control...

what's next? increase in oil royalties?

Hopefully what he should have proposed in the first place - progressive taxation.

[Red]

Next should be the flat tax. It only benefits the rich so he probably won't do it. Little guys will pick it the bill, as usual.

[killer_carlson]

I think the thing that Prentice mis-calculated on the Blame Albertans angle is that Albertans are still pretty sore from the "I'm Smarter Than You and I Make Unilateral Decisions" from the Redford era. This reeked of a Redford communication angle. I have to wonder if he wasn't prepped by some of the Redford staff, many of whom remain at the Premier's office.

[Fozzie_DeBear]

Originally Posted by killer_carlson

I think the thing that Prentice mis-calculated on the Blame Albertans angle is that Albertans are still pretty sore from the "I'm Smarter Than You and I Make Unilateral Decisions" from the Redford era. This reeked of a Redford communication angle. I have to wonder if he wasn't prepped by some of the Redford staff, many of whom remain at the Premier's office.

I think concern over hurting Albertan feelings is what has gotten us into this mess.

Like an earlier poster said "arithmetic sucks" and I'd like to add "economics sucks" too. Especially when dealing with a volatile resource based economy and a population that is horrified of direct taxation.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Slava

And Dani dollars, lets not forget the Dani-dollars!

Its funny though because we've only had conservative policies of one form or another, they have to take both the credit and the blame. You can't absolve these policies because at one time (which just happened to coincide with a boom in resource revenues) the province had balanced books. Look back to the conservative policies of Don Getty and right on through with Stelmach because those were all conservative policies as well.

Just because a party is conservative in name doesn't mean they practice any 'conservative' policies.

By the very definition, conservative policies include lowering government spending. The Alberta PC's have been the highest spending government in Canada over the past couple of decades since Klein...which is a truly liberal or left wing policy. That explains why Alison Redford successfully recruited the teachers union to ensure she came into power, by promising them increased wages.

That, coupled with the PC's stubborn insistence to keep taxes low is what has lead us back to the same position Getty brought the province into.

Last election those left wingers who voted PC to avoid a Wildrose government really did a disservice to Albertans. The Wildrose or Liberal platforms were both more rational choices to Redford's status quo.

[spuzzum]

Bring in a sales tax and be done with it. We're massively short on revenue.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

Just because a party is conservative in name doesn't mean they practice any 'conservative' policies.

By the very definition, conservative policies include lowering government spending. The Alberta PC's have been the highest spending government in Canada over the past couple of decades since Klein...which is a truly liberal or left wing policy. That explains why Alison Redford successfully recruited the teachers union to ensure she came into power, by promising them increased wages.

That, coupled with the PC's stubborn insistence to keep taxes low is what has lead us back to the same position Getty brought the province into.

Last election those left wingers who voted PC to avoid a Wildrose government really did a disservice to Albertans. The Wildrose or Liberal platforms were both more rational choices to Redford's status quo.

Why do I have the nagging suspicion that the conservative supporters here call the policies that have worked in hindsight and leaders they voted for as true conservatives, and don't want to take ownership of the problem policies and leaders?

[Two Fivenagame]

Hate that every time I hear Pentice he seems to be pointing the blame at public services.

Maintaining a flat tax rate and cutting government funding....

Frankly, I don't see how the current economic system in Alberta is benefitting anyone other than the wealthy.

I agree there needs to be a change in Alberta's tax structure but I personally do not trust the PCs to implement it.

[John Doe]

Originally Posted by Two Fivenagame

Hate that every time I hear Pentice he seems to be pointing the blame at public services.

Maintaining a flat tax rate and cutting government funding....

Frankly, I don't see how the current economic system in Alberta is benefitting anyone other than the wealthy.

I agree there needs to be a change in Alberta's tax structure but I personally do not trust the PCs to implement it.

It isn't.

[crazy_eoj]

Originally Posted by Slava

Why do I have the nagging suspicion that the conservative supporters here call the policies that have worked in hindsight and leaders they voted for as true conservatives, and don't want to take ownership of the problem policies and leaders?

If you seriously can't distinguish the difference in policies between Klein vs Redford then you've got a large issue understanding government.

The Wildrose Party was a protest party based on the PC's totally abandoning fiscally conservative principles. They were the first real opposition voice in Alberta in decades, mainly because the PC policy book had become nearly identical to the Liberal Party.

I think the fact we know Alison Redford won the leadership of the PC's on the back of the Alberta Teachers Association says all we need to know about her 'true conservative' leadership. She attracted many left wing votes, which was her goal all along. I believe you even voted for her?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

If you seriously can't distinguish the difference in policies between Klein vs Redford then you've got a large issue understanding government.

The Wildrose Party was a protest party based on the PC's totally abandoning fiscally conservative principles. They were the first real opposition voice in Alberta in decades, mainly because the PC policy book had become nearly identical to the Liberal Party.

I think the fact we know Alison Redford won the leadership of the PC's on the back of the Alberta Teachers Association says all we need to know about her 'true conservative' leadership. She attracted many left wing votes, which was her goal all along. I believe you even voted for her?

I dispute whether we really had an opposition at that point or just some cheerleaders from the same line of thinking encouraging the party to move further right. I got my answer in December when the heart and soul of the movement returned to the mothership.

The last real opposition were the Decore Liberals really, and to a lesser extent the Liberals of the 2000's. These parties actually opposed things and presented a clear alternative viewpoint. It obviously wasn't widely adopted by Albertans, but I guess that's why they were in opposition.

And you're right I voted for her or more accurately I voted for the PC in my riding to try to stop the Wildrose. I have no problem admitting that fact and faced with the same dilemma today I would cast my ballot in the same way because the PC was clearly the most capable candidate in my riding, in my opinion. Are you willing to admit that you voted for Stelmach? How about Getty? On a federal level you almost surely voted for Harper who has these same policies and is nowhere near a fiscal conservative. How about Stockwell Day or Brian Mulroney?

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by crazy_eoj

If you seriously can't distinguish the difference in policies between Klein vs Redford then you've got a large issue understanding government.

The Wildrose Party was a protest party based on the PC's totally abandoning fiscally conservative principles. They were the first real opposition voice in Alberta in decades, mainly because the PC policy book had become nearly identical to the Liberal Party.

I think the fact we know Alison Redford won the leadership of the PC's on the back of the Alberta Teachers Association says all we need to know about her 'true conservative' leadership. She attracted many left wing votes, which was her goal all along. I believe you even voted for her?

THIS.

There is a difference between Conservatives and conservatives. Redford was a Conservative in name only and most in her party knew she was not representative of conservatism.

The PC's had a huge problem after Klein with respect to memberships. $5.00 gave you a vote in the PC leadership campaign. Many found this to be a far more effective way of establishing left-of-center leaders. Stelmach and Redford benefitted from this greatly.

In Stelmach's case, he ran against Jim Dinning and Ted Morton, both conservatives in different forms. Ed was able to capture the rural vote as well as those liberal Conservatives.

Redford was the same. A liberal in Conservative clothing who received minimal support from caucus members as opposed to the conservative, Gary Mar. Redford squeeked as mentioned.

Since the Redford debacle, the PC's have changed their membership process.

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Slava

Why do I have the nagging suspicion that the conservative supporters here call the policies that have worked in hindsight and leaders they voted for as true conservatives, and don't want to take ownership of the problem policies and leaders?

Most conservatives know there hasn't been a real fiscal conservative policy in a long time...

[Harry Lime]

Considering the Conservative Party has been running under a liberal fiscal policy, and conservative social policy for a few Premiers now, am I wrong in thinking that the Liberal Party would be a huge success if they adopted a conservative fiscal and liberal social platform?

Is the only reason that they don't actually do this some kind of outdated ideological stance?

Who do I phone up to become leader of that party? It couldn't be that hard. Maybe a skill testing question or something.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Considering the Conservative Party has been running under a liberal fiscal policy, and conservative social policy for a few Premiers now, am I wrong in thinking that the Liberal Party would be a huge success if they adopted a conservative fiscal and liberal social platform?

Is the only reason that they don't actually do this some kind of outdated ideological stance?

Who do I phone up to become leader of that party? It couldn't be that hard. Maybe a skill testing question or something.

You'd probably have more success changing the colour of your banner from red to seafoam.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

You'd probably have more success changing the colour of your banner from red to seafoam.

This Incorruptible, logical decision making Seafoam Party of Alberta. Someone send a fax, or telegram, or however the Liberal Party receives missives. I'm taking over.

[Jacks]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

Considering the Conservative Party has been running under a liberal fiscal policy, and conservative social policy for a few Premiers now, am I wrong in thinking that the Liberal Party would be a huge success if they adopted a conservative fiscal and liberal social platform?

The Liberal party is unlikely to ever have any success in Alberta, the brand is toxic. You may not think thats fair but that's the way it is. If he wasn't running under the Liberal banner Taft might have beat Stelmach, Decore certainly would have won after the disaster Getty left behind. If the Liberals changed their name and got a decent leader they could probably pull a bunch of soft PC voters into the fold. That they can't see this is mind bottling.

[kevman]

This. Frankly all provincial parties should distance themselves from the federal parties. They're related in name only so why risk it?