2014 Salary Arbitration - Joe Colborne Settles Before Arb

[sureLoss]

Ken Campbell @THNKenCampbell
P.K. Subban seeking $8.5 million in arbitration and the Canadiens are seeking $5.25 million on a one-year deal.

[DionTheDman]

The lower end of that cap hit would put him with:

Bouwmeester, Jay $5,400,000
Yandle, Keith $5,250,000
Wideman, Dennis $5,250,000
Streit, Mark $5,250,000
Bogosian, Zach $5,142,857
Martin, Paul $5,000,000
Edler, Alexander $5,000,000
Gonchar, Sergei $5,000,000
MacDonald, Andrew $5,000,000

Higher end would place him right at the top, but:

Weber, Shea $7,857,143
Suter, Ryan $7,538,462
Letang, Kris $7,250,000
Campbell, Brian $7,142,875
Doughty, Drew $7,000,000
Phaneuf, Dion $7,000,000

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

The lower end of that cap hit would put him with:

Bouwmeester, Jay $5,400,000
Yandle, Keith $5,250,000
Wideman, Dennis $5,250,000
Streit, Mark $5,250,000
Bogosian, Zach $5,142,857
Martin, Paul $5,000,000
Edler, Alexander $5,000,000
Gonchar, Sergei $5,000,000
MacDonald, Andrew $5,000,000

Higher end would place him right at the top, but:

Weber, Shea $7,857,143
Suter, Ryan $7,538,462
Letang, Kris $7,250,000
Campbell, Brian $7,142,875
Doughty, Drew $7,000,000
Phaneuf, Dion $7,000,000

Based on that list, I would say he "should" be between $7–8 m. But because the arbitrator must select either one or the other submission, Subban is getting $8.5 m.

It's outrageous.

[Calgary4LIfe]

This will be a funny situation - most of the comparable level players signed long-term cap-circumvention type deals that were front-loaded. Will be interesting to see what the decision will be.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Based on that list, I would say he "should" be between $7–8 m. But because the arbitrator must select either one or the other submission, Subban is getting $8.5 m.

It's outrageous.

This isn't baseball. The arbitrator does not have to pick one or the other.

[Enoch Root]

I don't get the Hab's position on this. They have already had one volatile negotiation with PK. This makes two. And even if they get what they want (something in the 5s for one year), they simply go through it again next year. And there will only be even more big contracts doled out by then.

Why do they keep agitating their best player? Sooner or later he will get his big contract or be gone. And when he does, they will be no better off than had they given him a fair longer term contract last time or this time.

They are fighting a battle they are going to lose, IMO. And the only thing they accomplish is to piss off their best player.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Ken Campbell @THNKenCampbell
P.K. Subban seeking $8.5 million in arbitration and the Canadiens are seeking $5.25 million on a one-year deal.

Are the Habs really going to play hard ball with Subban? Ok...

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

This isn't baseball. The arbitrator does not have to pick one or the other.

Wasn't this changed in the new CBA? I thought that now it was either one or the other.

If not, then he should land somewhere closer to $7 m.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I don't get the Hab's position on this. They have already had one volatile negotiation with PK. This makes two. And even if they get what they want (something in the 5s for one year), they simply go through it again next year. And there will only be even more big contracts doled out by then.

Why do they keep agitating their best player?

My guess is that Subban's number on a long-term deal that foregoes at least a couple years of UFA availability must be truly astronomical.

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Sooner or later he will get his big contract or be gone. And when he does, they will be no better off than had they given him a fair longer term contract last time or this time.

They are fighting a battle they are going to lose, IMO. And the only thing they accomplish is to piss off their best player.

I'm sure you're right, but from the Habs perspective, if what I suggested above is true, then they are rightly frustrated by the fact that they have no power in this negotiation. If Subban is asking for $9.0 m on a long-term deal, do you believe that the Canadiens should just concede and sign?

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Bergevin's going to look pretty bad if he doesn't get Subban signed to a long term deal after all this. The guy is one of the best dmen in the league and he's easily their best player, I'm not sure why they're dicking him around like this. Maybe they're trying to piss him off? Made sense going for the bridge contract last time but now they should absolutely be looking to lock him up long term. Oh well, I hope bad things happen to the habs anyway so whatever...

[Machiavelli]

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

Bergevin's going to look pretty bad if he doesn't get Subban signed to a long term deal after all this. The guy is one of the best dmen in the league and he's easily their best player, I'm not sure why they're dicking him around like this. Maybe they're trying to piss him off? Made sense going for the bridge contract last time but now they should absolutely be looking to lock him up long term. Oh well, I hope bad things happen to the habs anyway so whatever...

Amen

[Fire of the Phoenix]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

If Subban is asking for $9.0 m on a long-term deal, do you believe that the Canadiens should just concede and sign?

Not directed at me but, yes they absolutely should. They would be stupid not to. The price isn't going down, so just sign him now before he forces a trade or leaves as a UFA. 8-9m is the going rate for elite NHL talent, really not understanding Montreal's position unless Subban is demanding 10m+ on a long term deal.

[Imported_Aussie]

This is why the Flames work hard to avoid arbitration - you have to devalue your player and pick apart their faults in order to not get screwed in the deal, and that cannot be having any positive impact on relations between player and team.
Looking at comparable guys, Subban will get at least 7M, maybe closer to 7.5M. He won a Norris, and though his defensive zone game is not as good as Weber/Chara, he is in a prime situation to cash in. If I were Subban, I would want a 1 or 2 year deal, then cash in as the cap goes up. If he gets to UFA, he will be fielding more than 8M per year on a long term deal

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

My guess is that Subban's number on a long-term deal that foregoes at least a couple years of UFA availability must be truly astronomical.

I'm sure you're right, but from the Habs perspective, if what I suggested above is true, then they are rightly frustrated by the fact that they have no power in this negotiation. If Subban is asking for $9.0 m on a long-term deal, do you believe that the Canadiens should just concede and sign?

I said fair, not concede to anything.

I think most people would agree that $9m is a lot for Subban. But if the Habs were a little less draconian, they likely get him inked long term in the high 7s or low 8s.

That may or may not be too much for him (I won't get into that debate here), but at least he's signed. Their current negotiating strategy is leading them down a path where the Habs and Subban are no longer going to be playing in the same sandbox.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Wasn't this changed in the new CBA? I thought that now it was either one or the other.

If not, then he should land somewhere closer to $7 m.

I believe it was discussed during negotiations, but never came to fruition. If it had, I think you hit the figure the Habs would have had to offer on the head - about $7 million. Anything less would have resulted in a total win for Subban.

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Fire

Are the Habs really going to play hard ball with Subban? Ok...

yup, i don't get it either. There are some guys you can play harder ball with and others that, if you feel are part of your core, you have to concede at some point with.

If a top 5 forward in the league now garners 10+ million a year, then i'd say a top 5 dman getting 8 seems pretty reasonable. They can try to do another short term deal on the cheap considering he's an RFA, but at some point you could irk the player and have him decide his next contract after july 1.

[nik-]

I also think what the Habs are doing is stupid. They gambled for a short term victory last time and won. Doing it again is just going to piss off their clearly best player. Pay the man, you gambled and won knowing this might happen.

[Nehkara]

Yeah I think the Habs are being way too stingy here. PK Subban, whatever his faults, is a fantastic NHL defenceman and they have to pay him or risk losing him soon. He could be a UFA in 2016.

I think a 7 year deal in the range of $49 to 53 million would be fair.

[Resolute 14]

I think the Habs would love to sign Subban to a 7 year/$53 million contract. Problem is, Subban is likely looking at Toews/Kane money, at least. Both sides are making offers designed to step up to their preferred long-term totals.

[FireGilbert]

I understand teams low ball offers in arbitration but $5.25M for Subban is ridiculous. I would say Subban's number of $8.5, although still high for an RFA, is much closer to his actual value. When Subban becomes a UFA in a couple years he could likely command a $9M by 8 year deal.