Van and Calgary - Worst tippers

[Burninator]

Had a waiter bring this up study while I was paying the bill. That was annoying. Also he would stand around for a solid 3-5 seconds after he was done with our table. It was awkward every time. Should have tipped less.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I don't really understand why it will cost more to pay the server and owner the same money that they were making? Unless you are suggesting that fewer people would frequent the restaurant so the prices will have to go up.

As for the terrible service that would come from paying the servers a fixed $30 an hour wage I think that is BS. Most industry employ people who work hard without the immediate reward of tips and I don't see why the restaurant can't do the same. Maybe the manager would need to step up and start managing his people better to maintain service levels. I would think you can find good waiters if you were advertising $30 per hour.

Your second paragraph is why I quit tipping based on service and just tip a lat rate. I dont get a tip based on my hourly performance so why should I evaluate others like this. If I have a bad day I still make the same amount so servers should be the same. Tipping treats servers like dogs asking for a treat. Sit, bring my ranch dressing, heres a dollar.

Costs wouldnt change on a per meal basis but peoples perception of the cost would so you would lose business. Now if a restaurant just went to a flat service charge the same way groups of 6 or 8 or more are handled in might work.

[Simanium]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I don't really understand why it will cost more to pay the server and owner the same money that they were making? Unless you are suggesting that fewer people would frequent the restaurant so the prices will have to go up.

It is advantageous to the restaurants to have servers earn more of their wages as tips, as opposed to wages, because the employers doesn't have to contribute to EI and CPP on tips. This adds up to a lot of money over the course of a year.

[GP_Matt]

Originally Posted by Simanium

It is advantageous to the restaurants to have servers earn more of their wages as tips, as opposed to wages, because the employers doesn't have to contribute to EI and CPP on tips. This adds up to a lot of money over the course of a year.

I hadn't considered that, but it does make sense. They lose EI, CPP, vacation time, holiday pay and WCB coverage. All of the above would be based on their minimum wage salary and would not include tips.

It is actually a pretty terrible system whereby waitstaff trade lower taxes in exchange for giving up their social safety net.

[cDnStealth]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

You are also going to get worse service. If all of the servers know they are getting $30 per hour whether they do a good job or not, then the incentive to do a good job is gone. If you don't believe me, have a look at all of the servers you have seen in the restaurant industry. How many do you complain about? How many servers does Springs1 write novels about? That is when they have an incentive to do a better job. By giving you, the customer, the choice on how much to tip, you are making servers work harder for your money, and you get a say in how much to give them. The system works much better that way, then the alternative. If you don't like it, you can go pick up burger meat, buns, fries and beer and have it at home. It's cheaper for you, and you don't have to worry about tipping.

So what you're saying is that servers are monkeys who dance for cash. I don't buy this. You know what would happen if servers were paid $30 an hour and they did a terrible job? They'd get fired like in any other industry.

[The Coppernian One]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

The server would be little worse off, as they are having to have their complete income taxed

I understand the impact on the individual, but is the fact that this does not happen another flaw in the system?

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by GP_Matt

I hadn't considered that, but it does make sense. They lose EI, CPP, vacation time, holiday pay and WCB coverage. All of the above would be based on their minimum wage salary and would not include tips.

It is actually a pretty terrible system whereby waitstaff trade lower taxes in exchange for giving up their social safety net.

Another point of consideration, is say a server makes $12,000 in wages and $40,000 in tips. I'm guessing most servers would only claim about $6,000-12,000 in tips. Their tax rate is nominal, so they are taking home about $50,000 in the year. In order to take home this amount in Alberta you are looking at grossing around $65,000. The servers would have to earn about 30% more in wages and tips, just to get back to the same point they were at before the change. If you knew this as a server, there is very little chance you go to a restaurant that has a no tipping policy, when there are many other restaurants in the city.

I understand almost all income is taxable, and servers should be reporting all of their tips. I don't want to side track the current discussion on tipping, but I will say that the amount of servers who properly report all of their tips is almost nil. Whether that is right or not, is another discussion. I'm just trying to show how much a server would need to make to bring them back to the level they were at before a no tipping policy would be inserted.

Restaurants would be much quicker to cut servers near the end of the lunch or dinner rushes, as labour would be such a huge component. Many servers work overtime, and the cost in dollars isn't that much higher to the restaurant. If a server was making $30 per hour, at OT they would be at $45. That's crazy.

[Simanium]

Originally Posted by The Coppernian One

I understand the impact on the individual, but is the fact that this does not happen another flaw in the system?

It definitely is. When you think about the number of restaurants coast to coast, it would be a lot of lost tax revenue.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

I understand almost all income is taxable, and servers should be reporting all of their tips. I don't want to side track the current discussion on tipping, but I will say that the amount of servers who properly report all of their tips is almost nil. Whether that is right or not, is another discussion. I'm just trying to show how much a server would need to make to bring them back to the level they were at before a no tipping policy would be inserted.

Kind of a lose/lose with this one, since there's usually no record of what that person made in tips, and Revenue Canada decides that you got tips, if you get re-assessed they can just tack on an extra amount that you owe them. This number was 10% in the past but I've heard rumblings of it going up. Again seems fair on the surface to catch the dip####s that don't claim anything, but many times what Revenue Canada decides what you earned is way over what you actually earned, so a server could lose a lot of money this way. Even if they claimed their tips 100% accurately, since there's usually no evidence of this income Revenue Canada can decide that you didn't claim enough and say you owe them more money, all off of an income you didn't actually receive.

[Temporary_User]

So this current tipping system ends up costing tax payers more money? I wonder how many extra agents Revenue Canada needs every year just to cover the restaurant industry.

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by Temporary_User

So this current tipping system ends up costing tax payers more money? I wonder how many extra agents Revenue Canada needs every year just to cover the restaurant industry.

Well, the boneheads that don't claim those tips cost everyone money, not really the tipping itself. But yes, it's a massive annoyance for sure.

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Kind of a lose/lose with this one, since there's usually no record of what that person made in tips, and Revenue Canada decides that you got tips, if you get re-assessed they can just tack on an extra amount that you owe them. This number was 10% in the past but I've heard rumblings of it going up. Again seems fair on the surface to catch the dip####s that don't claim anything, but many times what Revenue Canada decides what you earned is way over what you actually earned, so a server could lose a lot of money this way. Even if they claimed their tips 100% accurately, since there's usually no evidence of this income Revenue Canada can decide that you didn't claim enough and say you owe them more money, all off of an income you didn't actually receive.

I always liked the people who said that they claim 10% of their wage, and that it was a fair number. I argued it wasn't close. At $9 per hour, if you work an 8 hour shift you make about $70. If you only make $7 in tips in those 8 hours, you are either a terrible server, or you work at a dead restaurant. It was even more far fetched when I was serving and the wage was $5.90 per hour. The 10% should be off of your sales, not your salary.

Of my friends who claimed at least 30% of their wages as tips, none were audited. I knew several people in the 10% range who were audited and assessed penalties. Often times, it was to your advantage to claim more in tips, as many part time servers weren't even at the minimum income level that had to pay taxes yet.

[btimbit]

Well if you want to do it off wage then it'd be wage + 10%, not simply 10% of the wage. If that makes sense, I'm not good a describing math. In your $70/day example it'd be $70 wage + minimum $77 in tips, $147 total. That's the way most management and Rev Canada looks at it at least.

[burnin_vernon]

In the 6 years I worked as a waiter not one of the dozens of co-workers I knew ever paid a cent in taxes nor did I hear of any of them being audited. I thought I had heard a few years ago they were going to crack down on this. Is it just too labor intensive for the tax man to process it all?

[btimbit]

Originally Posted by burnin_vernon

In the 6 years I worked as a waiter not one of the dozens of co-workers I knew ever paid a cent in taxes nor did I hear of any of them being audited. I thought I had heard a few years ago they were going to crack down on this. Is it just too labor intensive for the tax man to process it all?

A good amount get nabbed every year, but it's still tiny on the grand scale of things. They keep saying they'll do it more but like I said above it usually ends up punishing the people that at least tried to claim some, rather than the ones that claim 0.

No respect for the ones that claim none. We've fired people in the past for bragging about it.

[foshizzle11]

with the digital age of the credit/debit machines I"m sure these businesses can track tips a little bit better than leaving it up to the individuals to report in their taxes annually.

I get the cash is harder to track but why can't this be something built into the POS software. If they are getting cheques for their tips from the POS systems, why can't taxes be deducted and reported as income? Does the company get taxed on that? How does the employer deal with these tips in their books that they have to pay out?

[squiggs96]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Well if you want to do it off wage then it'd be wage + 10%, not simply 10% of the wage. If that makes sense, I'm not good a describing math. In your $70/day example it'd be $70 wage + minimum $77 in tips, $147 total. That's the way most management and Rev Canada looks at it at least.

Oh, I agree. Servers on the other hand, thought that was ludicrous, even when I did the basic math for them. They still thought that even though they walked out with $100 more than they walked in with, 10% of wages was acceptable. That's why they were audited.

[troutman]

No tipping, please: B.C. restaurant plans to do away with gratuities in favour of paying a living wage


http://www.calgaryherald.com/busines...287/story.html

When David Jones opens Smoke and Water in June at the Pacific Shores Resort in Parksville, customers will never have to crunch the numbers to determine what 10, 15 or 20 per cent of their bill is to leave a gratuity.

“Tipping is a broken business model,” said Jones, an admitted neophyte in the hospitality industry.

Instead of tipping, Jones has increased menu prices by about 18 per cent and intends to pay his staff a living wage, which is a business model accepted around the world in places such as Japan, New Zealand, Australia and parts of Europe.

That means the 155-seat restaurant will pay servers between $20 and $24 an hour and cooks $16 to $18 an hour.

[btimbit]

Servers paid more than chefs?

Business will fail right there. Trying to make a big deal out of the no tipping thing to hopefully become his niche since obviously food quality isn't important.

Wish him luck though. Be nice if it catches on but all other attempts in North America haven't lasted more than a year.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by squiggs96

TIPS, stands for To Insure Prompt Service.

No it frigging doesn't. I have no idea where this idea started, but it's ludicrously flawed, particularly because it's grammatically incorrect as, if it were accurate they'd be called TEPS because it should be "ensure" as in "guarantee or make certain" as opposed to "insure" which is "provide insurance for."