'Canadian dream' is a myth more than a reality"

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

My strategy is to limit "death by a thousand needles". Many people go out for lunch everyday at work instead of brown bagging it. They get a Tim Horton's coffee everyday. They go to the bar once or twice a week or eat out/order out twice a week etc. Paying for monthly parking at work. They have expensive cable packages. All of those types of costs really add up over time.

I'm a frugalist. My spouse and I each make 100K plus, we have DB pensions, but we sure as hell don't live like it. I'm certainly not counting on any pension to be there. I save with the mindset that it wont be.
We have one paid off vehicle but walk/take transit to work. We rent a condo, but when we buy a house, we both prefer a cheaper townhouse next to an LRT line.(no, you don't need 2000+ sq house, even with kids)

Not commuting with a car everyday, especially 2 cars, goes a long way. If we get married it will be at city hall. We fly on vacations only using airmiles. We like to go tent camping and mountain biking in the mountains. We go to a movie once or twice a year, only on cheap nights. We have netflix instead of cable etc. We love to be active and just ride our bikes around in the nice weather.

I definitely don't see many of my peers showing much restraint when it comes to spending. Everyone is entitled to choose to live how they like, but I prefer peace of mind in the future. Many of my peers have big expensive houses, two cars, go on vacation down south every year etc.

My father was frugal and saved, which meant he didn't get pushed into the poorhouse the 2nd time his cancer came back. He was able to enroll in a clinical trial in the U.S for a drug that extended his life for two years. If he was one of those "I might as well spend it today because I could die tomorrow) my mother would have been ruined and the end of his life would have had no quality.

A big part of the middle class hallowing out is that everyone feels deserving or accustomed to living a 1st class life these days, whether they have the money or not. There has been a dramatic shift in "needs" and "wants" between the last generation and this one. I believe it has shifted much to far too "wants"

How old are you? I'd like to know about your retirement savings as well please!

[GirlySports]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

I used to work for a guy that lived a lot like this. He was so frugal it was embarrassing. People would always ask me why he was so cheap and what was the point of it. I told them that he lived for it. He wasn't scraping by saving for a glorious retirement. He thrived on spending as little money as possible, it gave him great joy. That is just the way some people are.

There is a balance somewhere, you can't be so cheap you're leeching off people, those people are just anti-social jerks.

I'm cheap (I'm Asian afterall) but I like to go out with friends and I'll always pay my share, in fact I might even pay for you! But instead of going out twice a week I might go out once a week, instead of buying groceries at full price I look for deals, air miles, points or coupons. Stuff like that.

And yes everyone here knows the joke by now, I don't have HDTV.

[AMG_G]

Originally Posted by darklord700

I do applaud you penchant for frugality, Johnny199r. I actually know one couple spend exactly like you do. What I learned from that couple is you only live once and you might be saving money but are you wasting life as well? I think the finality of that frugal couple is that they'll not live much but their kids will inherit a lot and probably blow it away too.

Managing finance is an art. Most people either value the value of a dollar too much or too little. And it is important to balance to pain of saving now with the joy of spending in the future.

If you think he is frugal now wait till he retires. It pretty common people cheap right out after they retire and realize that the money they saved will have to last the rest of their lives.

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

How old are you? I'd like to know about your retirement savings as well please!

I'm 30. I have about $280,000 banked for the future.

I recently left private practice in a remote place where I worked a lot, didn't have anything to do outside of work and made a lot of money, in order to move to a city (hello options! and mountain biking and camping in the mountains, which I love) and work for the government where I now just work 40 hours a week and will probably max out at about $175,000k in about 10 years.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by troutman

I see so many people that sacrificed, and by the time they are ready to enjoy the fruits of their labour, they are in poor health.

I think there is something to be said for living hard while you are young. You can't know what your future years will look like.

This has kind of been my mentality throughout my 20. Maybe it's partially due to the fact that I have a permanent illness that I know is going to make enjoying things like travelling in my later years quite difficult. The degree I'm working towards combined with my likely career choices and where I live will probably see me max out at $60k-$70k annually. I'm under no illusions of ever owning a house unless I marry, possibly a one bedroom condo if I can pay off my student loans in time to save up enough for a down payment.

The one thing I am curious about is if and when the amount of people who can't afford to have children will catch up with us.

[The Yen Man]

My grandparents are about the cheapest people you've ever met. My grandma wouldn't pay for ANYTHING, and used to just sit around all day day dreaming when she doesn't have chores around the house to do. She wouldn't even pay for a radio since she didn't want to waste too much electricity, let alone having a TV.

Now that she's old and senile, most of the money she's saved over the years have been siphoned out by my two uncles, and she's left with pretty much nothing. Pretty sad IMO, to have gone through life being so frugal only to have your sons blow it away. But hey, I guess that's what gave her joy, so who am I do judge I guess.

[Kybosh]

If you're single, doing a lot of the saving activities people are describing is waaaaaaaay harder. Splitting bills and tax breaks add up huge if both earn a salary, even modest salaries.

[darklord700]

We all have a hole in our heart to fill. Some fill it by spending frivolously way beyond their means and some fill it by putting money away and never spend it at all.

[rubecube]

Looking at my post it sounds a lot more self-pitying than I meant it to. I guess what I was getting at is there are a whole whack of things that I think will be more fulfilling for me than home ownership than wealth so I agree with some of the comments about personal choice. That being said, there are a severe lack of opportunities for people fresh out of college and drowning in student loans to carve out a niche for themselves, especially outside of Alberta. A lot of the time I see people suggest doing something entrepreneurial but it's hard for people to put time aside for that when they're barely keeping their heads above the water.

[Ozy_Flame]

Hey, if assisted suicide becomes legal (ergo, euthanasia), I'm not going to save as hard as I hoped anyways!

I see one of three outcomes by age 70:

1. Retire like a normal person.
2. Go live in a country where my dollar takes me further because I didn't save enough.
3. Failing that, I will bestow myself to most available / accurate god there is in the afterlife.

[tvp2003]

Originally Posted by Johnny199r

I'm 30. I have about $280,000 banked for the future.

I recently left private practice in a remote place where I worked a lot, didn't have anything to do outside of work and made a lot of money, in order to move to a city (hello options! and mountain biking and camping in the mountains, which I love) and work for the government where I now just work 40 hours a week and will probably max out at about $175,000k in about 10 years.

Law?

P.S. Welcome to CP

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Kybosh

If you're single, doing a lot of the saving activities people are describing is waaaaaaaay harder. Splitting bills and tax breaks add up huge if both earn a salary, even modest salaries.

Not having children is probably the biggest key to being wealthy. Kids suck money, time, and future earnings. So DINKs are at the top, then singles, then two income families, then single income two parent families, and then the people who struggle the most are the single parent families.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by GGG

Not having children is probably the biggest key to being wealthy. Kids suck money, time, and future earnings. So DINKs are at the top, then singles, then two income families, then single income two parent families, and then the people who struggle the most are the single parent families.

I am not sure. Maybe we haven't hit the next wave of major expenses, but as our one kid is 7 and our other is 4 and going into kindergarten, I find a lot of the expenses that we, as a dual income family shell out regularly are starting to come down a lot, mainly daycare costs.

Sports programs aren't very expensive and are at least tax deductible..

Or we could just be really cheap with our kids..

I guess the only huge expenses I could see would be traveling by plane, which we rarely do. Most of the vacations we go on we drive.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by Wormius

I am not sure. Maybe we haven't hit the next wave of major expenses, but as our one kid is 7 and our other is 4 and going into kindergarten, I find a lot of the expenses that we, as a dual income family shell out regularly are starting to come down a lot, mainly daycare costs.

Sports programs aren't very expensive and are at least tax deductible..

Or we could just be really cheap with our kids..

I guess the only huge expenses I could see would be traveling by plane, which we rarely do. Most of the vacations we go on we drive.

Yeah you might be right as currently I at the 5/3 point and so am probably at the highest cost point until post secondary if you choose to fund it. The two big cost increases that don't go away are larger lodging costs and greater food cost.

[Johnny199r]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

Law?

P.S. Welcome to CP

Indeed

[Brannigans Law]

I gave up reading this thread on page 3 when people were talking about how this is just a matter of folks needing to live within their means. Talk about the ultimate in balogne. Yes people need to live within their means but when everyones wages have stagnated and the upper crust of society is enjoying all the wealth growth over several decades that's a problem. No matter how much you want to guilt people into being frugal. Farcical.

[calgarywinning]

Again, to blame people that are doing well for making good choices is not the way to go. TO blame the government for "easing" in cash supply, low interest rates to punish savers and encourage borrowing which was the principle of article is what is at fault. Borrowing for washers and dryers and new trucks, to make lease rates low.

If Johnny 199r wants to eat cat food and save his money, his 280k saved should be generating 7-10% per annum in compounded growth giving him close to 750k by the time he is 40 (with continued saving effort). Instead the government legislates this away from him, relegating him to middle income stagnation. If he doesn't force his money back into the economy and risk it for a higher return than 2-3% he risks the loss of benefit from his saving.

They legislate rising living costs with capital availability and low interest rates. They legislate not living frugally because it doesn't pay!!! Blow your brains out, have a great time and then strip your fellow man for making a different choice.

People always look to others that have more and point the finger and never to the "man" or the "machine" or the great "oz" behind the curtains.

[darklord700]

Johnny, 280K is serious dought and saving it before the age of 30 even on a good lawyer's salary is great achievement. I only wished I had done that when I was 30 years old. Hats off to you and you have nothing to worry about your future financially.

[Red John]

Originally Posted by Brannigans Law

I gave up reading this thread on page 3 when people were talking about how this is just a matter of folks needing to live within their means. Talk about the ultimate in balogne. Yes people need to live within their means but when everyones wages have stagnated and the upper crust of society is enjoying all the wealth growth over several decades that's a problem. No matter how much you want to guilt people into being frugal. Farcical.

Live within your means. That means no purple mustangs.

Why wouldn't the upper crust of society enjoy all the wealth growth? They're the ones that own the businesses that the other classes pour their paychecks into (ie the dealerships, the restaurants, the liquor stores, the nightclubs).

Why should they not benefit? They're the ones who were smart enough to put themselves into that position. While others waste their paychecks making payments on all those toys they can't afford they purchased businesses or properties. Smart.

If you gave up reading the thread why did you post in it? Your left-wing bleatings are so predictable. If this is such a problem, then what is your proposed solution? Go ahead and think it over, come back when you have one. And don't say taxes. That's been tried many times - the rich are smart enough and hire the best accountants and lawyers to avoid paying those. Just ends up hurting the middle class more and creating a bigger gap between the 1% and everyone else.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by Red John

If this is such a problem, then what is your proposed solution?

The proletariat should not ignore peaceful methods of struggle — they serve its ordinary, day-to-day interests, they are necessary in periods of preparation for revolution — but it must never forget that in certain conditions the class struggle assumes the form of armed conflict and civil war; there are times when the interests of the proletariat call for ruthless extermination of its enemies in open armed clashes.