Prostitution Laws, let your voice be heard

[prime333]

I don't think the prostitutes will take this lying down.

[jayswin]

ha!

[GGG]

Originally Posted by strombad

I'm simply not quite sure why you're stating things like "I don't know why people are outraged, it's similar to the Nordic model" when citizens, especially liberals, in those countries generally do not like the laws either. It's not as though those laws are highly successful or well respected.

You are missing what I an saying. What Canada has proposed is worse than the nordic model because it forces prostitution onto the street and into industrial areas.

I still think oeople wanting full legalization are failing to address the very real concerns that human trafficing will increase.

[Fire]

Originally Posted by SebC

Yikes.

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...ve-opposition/

Yikes! People have different opinions on things. OMG! I am guessing a large percentage of the population (25-35%) agree with those social conservatives.

Personally I think it should be completely legal and regulated.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by GGG

You are missing what I an saying. What Canada has proposed is worse than the nordic model because it forces prostitution onto the street and into industrial areas.



I still think oeople wanting full legalization are failing to address the very real concerns that human trafficing will increase.

I may have misunderstood. Sorry for that!

Do you have any evidence that shows a correlation between legalisation and human trafficking? Ideally one where human trafficking was measured before legalisation and after legalisation? I hadn't heard of it myself, but I'd be curious to read up on it.

[Hemi-Cuda]

Originally Posted by GGG

You are missing what I an saying. What Canada has proposed is worse than the nordic model because it forces prostitution onto the street and into industrial areas.

I still think oeople wanting full legalization are failing to address the very real concerns that human trafficing will increase.

And I've yet to see any evidence that legalized prostitution does so. If done right human trafficking should be reduced if all prostitutes are legal and registered, and the black market business should decrease if a John has the choice between a legal and clean woman vs. an illegal with an unknown past

[SebC]

Originally Posted by Fire

People have different opinions on things.

Yes. And my opinion of their opinion is "Yikes!"

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by SebC

Yes. And my opinion of their opinion is "Yikes!"

Agreed. The fact that Harper is (or is considered) a moderate conservative is concerning. Though, we have known that for a while I suppose.

This party seems more kooky with every passing day.

[Maritime Q-Scout]

I'm curious about the variables and definitions in the studies.

I would naturally expect reported cases of human trafficking would increase because there would be safeguards to protect victims under legalized prostitution.

I also would naturally assume that there would be human trafficking with regard to pornography and strip clubs. What is the current rate and what are we doing?

Lastly, if human trafficking does increase due to legalized prostitution, shouldn't we be tackling the issue of human trafficking and not prostitution? To me that's like saying, the amount of prescription drug abuse increases in communities with a pharmacy. Therefore we should eliminate all pharmacies in Canada to prevent prescription drug abuse.

[Addick]

Spot on sir. If there is an issue with human trafficking, deal with the human trafficking. I doubt legalizing prostitution will make human trafficking an issue to large to tackle.

[gargamel]

If you lump any form of economic coercion into the term "human trafficking," then there are a huge number of "victims," but then you'd have to outlaw farming, because economic coercion is even more prevalent among farm laborers. Unless, of course (as so many anti-sex work activists do), you think women are somehow less capable than farm laborers when it comes to making decisions about their bodies and about their best way to earn a living.

If, on the other hand, you limit the discussion to women who aren't engaging in sex work voluntarily, the number of victims is minimal. It's certainly important to try to help those victims and go after the real traffickers with the full force of the law, but the extent of the problem is vastly overstated by people with a moral or anti-feminist reason for objecting to allowing women to voluntarily sell their sexual services.

Here's an interesting article about how the best estimate of the amount of sex trafficking victims in Cambodia puts the number at less than 2% of what anti-activists claim.

http://m.aljazeera.com/story/201468124236117557

The term "trafficking" has become trendy among donors in the Western world for the pure horror it evokes - a horror that Pros embodied for many - but it leaves out a whole spectrum of complex choices and negotiations, and often erases women's agency entirely.

Sebastien Marot, founder of the nongovernmental organisation Friends International, which works with street children and other vulnerable populations, has lived in Cambodia since 1994. In all his years in the country, he said he has encountered only a handful of what he considers clear-cut cases of sex slavery, despite the lavish funding and massive attention from celebrities that the cause attracts.

"There's definitely fashions in the donor world," he said. "The big thing now is trafficking - people say, 'Oh my God, trafficking' - but how do we define that?"

Mam and her foundation have interpreted the term liberally, claiming repeatedly, along with Afesip, that sex slaves in Cambodia number in the tens of thousands.

In 2011, Mam told an interviewer that there were 80,000 to 100,000 prostitutes in Cambodia, 58 percent of whom were trafficked. In a 2010 Somaly Mam Foundation video, Hollywood actress Lucy Liu solemnly intoned in a voiceover that "the low-end estimate for the number of sex slaves in Cambodia alone is over 40,000". Mam has also claimed that it is commonplace for children as young as 3 to be sold into sex slavery in Cambodia.

The source for these numbers is unclear, and according to some, wrong.

A study published in 2011 by the UN Inter-Agency Project on Trafficking based on data collected in 2008 stated that the number of sex trafficking victims in Cambodia is 1,058 at most, including 127 children, six of whom were under the age of 13. The majority of these cases involved women who had fallen into debt to their brothels, or prostitutes under the age of 18. These are both abhorrent and illegal, but they are a far cry from the extreme scenarios Mam often invoked - girls put in cages, tortured with electricity, having their eyes gouged out by pimps.

"We never encountered any such thing, and we certainly looked for it," the study's author, Thomas Steinfatt, said this week. "We couldn't find any instances of that ... In terms of people tortured, I think they've been watching too many movies."

Steinfatt, a professor at the University of Miami, said the figure of 1,058 is still an accurate estimate of the number of sex trafficking victims in the country. Although he has been criticised by some anti-sex-slavery activists for producing such a low figure, he is the only researcher to have systematically canvassed Cambodia seeking out brothels and collecting data on the women and girls inside.

"Sex trafficking is actually one of the smaller portions of trafficking," he said. "Much more [trafficking] goes on in labour or domestic work. It's quite literally the 'sexiest' topic, and it's something that really bothers people - which it should, but it's not the largest."

[troutman]

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...isy-over-c-36/

Sex workers who participated in this week’s justice committee hearings into the new Conservative bill on prostitution say the feeling of hypocrisy was “palpable.”

Ms. Chabot says there was anger at the harshness of the legislative process. She said there has been discussion of using the political kryptonite at their disposal by divulging the names of MPs who are regular clients. “That tactic was brought up but was shut down by some pretty strong voices who said they could not stand being part of a movement that would want to do this,” said Ms. Chabot. “We have some integrity.”

Emily Symons, chair of POWER, said it is tempting to reveal the names of MP clients who are in favour of C-36, but she said she would be surprised if current sex workers would risk doing so. “It would be career suicide for them — no one would want to use their services,” she said. “Discretion is essential in the sex industry and the only time clients would be outed is to protect other sex workers.”

[Maritime Q-Scout]

Originally Posted by troutman

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/...isy-over-c-36/

Sex workers who participated in this week’s justice committee hearings into the new Conservative bill on prostitution say the feeling of hypocrisy was “palpable.”

Ms. Chabot says there was anger at the harshness of the legislative process. She said there has been discussion of using the political kryptonite at their disposal by divulging the names of MPs who are regular clients. “That tactic was brought up but was shut down by some pretty strong voices who said they could not stand being part of a movement that would want to do this,” said Ms. Chabot. “We have some integrity.”

Emily Symons, chair of POWER, said it is tempting to reveal the names of MP clients who are in favour of C-36, but she said she would be surprised if current sex workers would risk doing so. “It would be career suicide for them — no one would want to use their services,” she said. “Discretion is essential in the sex industry and the only time clients would be outed is to protect other sex workers.”

I'd put forward the argument that by ousting clients who are MPs (specifically MPs in favour of C-36), those sex-workers would, in fact, be doing so for the protection of all sex workers in the country.

However, I do agree it would be a martyr move.