[PGT] Red Wings 4 Flames 3

[Flash Walken]

I haven't even really noticed backlund has been gone.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I actually think that perhaps Hartley is more adept for getting a win at the NHL level, but he's a detriment to a rebuilding team that needs to develop its young talent if it ever wants to find success.

And what is your solution then, eh? Just run them out there with no consequences? Why don't you ask any Oilers fan friends you might have how well that plan works? You are right, this team needs to develop its young talent. Colborne is showing development, Backlund is not. The ice time reflects this.

[moon]

Originally Posted by nik-

I don't think Burke is calling his minutes, I never said that. I said Hartley is jamming him down our throats. I think that Colborne was far from earning the minutes he was getting, especially in the first 10 games. If he was held the same "accountability" level that Backlund and Sven are now in his first 10 games, he'd be in the box constantly.

Guess I misread what you meant by the affirming a past decision comment. To me that implied you thought Colborne was getting minutes because Burke dealt for him a few years ago.

Colborne was fine for the 10 games and asked to play a different role than Backlund and Baertschi. I would certainly think he would and should be held to a different level of accountability than they were given the roles asked of each one and opportunities given.

[HighLifeMan]

Originally Posted by moon

There hasn't been one point in his career, not in Sweden, not in the WHL, not in the AHL and certainly not in the NHL that Backlund has looked close to developing into a top 6 player let alone a stud.

Not sure why people are so concerned about potentially losing (even though there is zero indication he is going anywhere) a guy that has shown not much at all offensively in terms of what a top 6 guy should show.

Maybe Backlund does leave and maybe he takes a crazy leap in play but it seems pretty pointless to worry about that and act as though him turning into something he has never shown the ability or potential to be.

His play last season certainly indicated to me personally that he has second line upside. He played up to and past the levels of Berglund, Kopitar, Read, Ryan etc.. during the lockout, and then continued on to the NHL with a .5 PPG pace playing in a somewhat limited offensive role. I don't see that same confidence in his game at the moment, but that is to be expected with the way he has been handled as of late.

I don't think it's a stretch to say he has 50 point upside after his showing last year, but again opportunity is everything. Some players find that niche within an organization, and some don't.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by moon

Guess I misread what you meant by the affirming a past decision comment. To me that implied you thought Colborne was getting minutes because Burke dealt for him a few years ago.

Colborne was fine for the 10 games and asked to play a different role than Backlund and Baertschi. I would certainly think he would and should be held to a different level of accountability than they were given the roles asked of each one and opportunities given.

No, I think Colborne is getting minutes because Hartley thinks he's a good coach. He most definitely wasn't fine his first 10 games.

[Clever_Iggy]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

And what is your solution then, eh? Just run them out there with no consequences? Why don't you ask any Oilers fan friends you might have how well that plan works? You are right, this team needs to develop its young talent. Colborne is showing development, Backlund is not. The ice time reflects this.

Christ. Monahan and Brodie have earned theirs. Hartley is not opposed to playing young guys when they prove it (Monahan saw ice during critical moments in the game - last 2 minutes, specifically). Backlund hasn't. Sven is hot and cold. Colborne is playing well right now, but I'm sure when he struggles, we'll see less of him.

There are some on this board that want the Flames to follow the Oilers' path - feed the young players as much ice as they can physically handle no matter what.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

And what is your solution then, eh? Just run them out there with no consequences? Why don't you ask any Oilers fan friends you might have how well that plan works? You are right, this team needs to develop its young talent. Colborne is showing development, Backlund is not. The ice time reflects this.

I'm not asking for the system to be unfair in favour of Backlund... I'm simply asking for the system to be fair. I've stated the reasons why I believe Backlund is being massively misused and undervalued by the team.

A team that isn't stuck in the stone age is going to come and pick Backlund up for super cheap.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Frankly, Transplant is right. Backlund flat out did not earn any ice time tonight. Glencross was far more involved, both offensively and defensively.

All of you "meritocracy" people need to accept that Backlund does not merit the ice time right now.

More than that IMO...the Flames dont need Backlund to move to the wing because of some perceived misgivings on Glencross part (or anyone else for that matter)...they NEED him to be at C and doing what they envision him to do. Both short and long term. He isnt a winger, he is a C. They absolutely have to have him produce in that capacity or they need to find someone else who can.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by nik-

No, I think Colborne is getting minutes because Hartley thinks he's a good coach. He most definitely wasn't fine his first 10 games.

No, Colborne wasn't all that good his first few games. Which is why he spent time in the press box, spent time on the fourth line, and had a game with as little as 3:58 of ice time. He responded, and that is why he is playing 15-20 minutes now.

Mikael Backlund is capable of doing the same. But he is not going to have it handed to him. He is losing ice time because he is getting outplayed. It is that simple. And there really isn't any reason for it - we know how Backlund can play. He's simply got to get his effort up, and make a few smarter plays. He did it last year, he can do it this.

[moon]

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan

His play last season certainly indicated to me personally that he has second line upside. He played up to and past the levels of Berglund, Kopitar, Read, Ryan etc.. during the lockout, and then continued on to the NHL with a .5 PPG pace playing in a somewhat limited offensive role. I don't see that same confidence in his game at the moment, but that is to be expected with the way he has been handled as of late.

I don't think it's a stretch to say he has 50 point upside after his showing last year, but again opportunity is everything. Some players find that niche within an organization, and some don't.

I thought he benefited from a few hot games with Iginla and Tanguay doing the heavy lifting in a style that was 100% balls out. But watching him actually play he showed limited natural offensive ability and really poor finishing ability.

I think Backlund could be a 2nd line guy and get 50 points on a bad team getting force fed top minutes and lots of PP. Similar to a Matt Stajan when on those bad TO teams or a Kyle Wellwood on the Jets/Leafs non-play-off teams.

For everyone worried about him going to Detroit and excelling. There is no way he is cracking their top 6 or getting PP time with them. They have talented players to fill those roles and guys with more offensive talent than Backlund waiting for their chance.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

No, Colborne wasn't all that good his first few games. Which is why he spent time in the press box, spent time on the fourth line, and had a game with as little as 3:58 of ice time. He responded, and that is why he is playing 15-20 minutes now.

Mikael Backlund is capable of doing the same. But he is not going to have it handed to him. He is losing ice time because he is getting outplayed. It is that simple. And there really isn't any reason for it - we know how Backlund can play. He's simply got to get his effort up, and make a few smarter plays. He did it last year, he can do it this.

The sub 4 minutes game was his third, and after that he was nothing too, but his minutes started going up up up up. He's been poor until the game after he scored his goal, but was continuously rewarded with more ice time.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

A team that isn't stuck in the stone age is going to come and pick Backlund up for super cheap.

Based on what exactly?

Backlund hasn't exactly been an untouchable around here lately and any team that values him so much could easily have moved in and made an offer.

Hard to imagine a lot of these progressive teams looking to add a guy struggling to get top line minutes for one of the worst teams in the league and the team with likely the worst C depth in the NHL.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I'm not asking for the system to be unfair in favour of Backlund... I'm simply asking for the system to be fair. I've stated the reasons why I believe Backlund is being massively misused and undervalued by the team.

A team that isn't stuck in the stone age is going to come and pick Backlund up for super cheap.

Yes, you most certainly are asking for the system to be unfair in Backlund's favour. He was getting second line ice time for his first eight games. Even though he wasn't scoring, wasn't generating offence, was generally underwater on the faceoff dot and generally invisible, he got the ice time. He started to lose his ice time when Colborne started to show his own skill.

The system was fair. And it still is. But Backlund needs to go out and make a difference, even if he only gets 8 minutes. Because Hartley has already shown that 8 minutes becomes 20 very easily if you deserve it.

[Clever_Iggy]

This reminds me of the tears shed over Dustin "Astana Barys" Boyd.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by moon

Based on what exactly?

Backlund hasn't exactly been an untouchable around here lately and any team that values him so much could easily have moved in and made an offer.

Hard to imagine a lot of these progressive teams looking to add a guy struggling to get top line minutes for one of the worst teams in the league and the team with likely the worst C depth in the NHL.

You said that Backlund's upside is 50 points on a bad team?

So why was he on a 41 point pace last season as a 23 year old given limited powerplay time, the toughest zone starts on the team, all while playing solid defensively?

Backlund may not be likely that he becomes a true number 2 centreman, but he's certainly better than where he's playing at and could be a very good 3rd liner as well.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by nik-

The sub 4 minutes game was his third, and after that he was nothing too, but his minutes started going up up up up. He's been poor until the game after he scored his goal, but was continuously rewarded with more ice time.

If you actually looked at his TOI chart, you would know this is false. He was getting fourth-line minutes for the two games afterward, got a couple games in the 13 minute range, then fell back to 10 for a couple. THEN he got the big minutes. He earned them. No matter how large the blinders you choose to wear, he still earned them. Backlund hasn't. Colborne has been noticeable, Backlund hasn't.

[Burner]

so back to the goalies - why cant one of our goalies not let in a softie - great push back by the team in the 2nd to tie it 2-2 and then a goal from behind the goal line.... pretty much to ask them to come back from that again.

We need one of them to make the expected saves and start posting save pcts of over .910

[theinfinitejar]

Originally Posted by transplant99

More than that IMO...the Flames dont need Backlund to move to the wing because of some perceived misgivings on Glencross part (or anyone else for that matter)...they NEED him to be at C and doing what they envision him to do. Both short and long term. He isnt a winger, he is a C. They absolutely have to have him produce in that capacity or they need to find someone else who can.

They're not playing him like they need him to produce, they're playing him as a shut-down forward. Backlund plays the most PK time of any forward and starts in the defensive zone way more than anyone else. I don't know how he can be expected to produce with the situations he's been put in.

I don't think Hartley's very good at managing the bench in general, Denis Wideman plays way too many minutes, there's no way he should play 28 minutes a night. Colborne played 24 (!) minutes against the Leafs, how does that even happen?

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

Yes, you most certainly are asking for the system to be unfair in Backlund's favour. He was getting second line ice time for his first eight games. Even though he wasn't scoring, wasn't generating offence, was generally underwater on the faceoff dot and generally invisible, he got the ice time. He started to lose his ice time when Colborne started to show his own skill.

The system was fair. And it still is. But Backlund needs to go out and make a difference, even if he only gets 8 minutes. Because Hartley has already shown that 8 minutes becomes 20 very easily if you deserve it.

lol you're wrong. Backlund had what? 4 points in his first 6 or 7 games?

Then Colborne's ice time started to skyrocket for some unknown reason. You can go look at the "so, what do you think of Joe Colborne so far" thread, and it was almost unanimous that he should/would be playing in the AHL if he wasn't subject to waivers.

Then suddenly you feel he's playing better and developing better than Backlund once he receives increased minutes and opportunities? Gee, what a coincidence.

Maybe if Backlund started in the offensive zone 25% more than he currently is (the spread between him and Colborne is almost Sedin/Malholtra-like), was given more powerplay time, and more ES time, you'd actually appreciate what he brings as a player instead of forgetting about it.

[Yrebmi]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Can't imagine it only taking a 4th round pick to get a 2b center. 3rd line is where Colborne will max out on any good team

You are going to limit a player's ceiling based on what we traded to get him?

I can't imagine it only taking a 2nd round pick to get an elite goal tender... except it happened.
Sometimes players exceed expectations. Sometimes you win a trade.