Without the epic choke in Washington game, Ramo would be holding a W too on a plate!
And it should be mentioned that the choke was a full team effort. The Flames stopped moving. They weren't getting the pucks out of the zone, they weren't getting them in deep, and they were being outworked to every loose puck. None of the goals Ramo let in were 100% his fault. Not that he didn't look flustered as well, but the crap was definitely rolling down hill.
I'm not disagreeing with Hartley holding him out for a few games because honestly, there are many reasons why he might choose to do so, and most don't mean that he is upset with Ramo or not confident in him in the long run.
The idea here is to build Ramo into an NHL goalie. Only a fool would have assumed that there would be no bumps along the way. Even Kiprusoff in his prime used to have bad games, but it was how he responded that mattered. As Hartley said, experience is a collection of successes and failures and the one thing Ramo need is more NHL experience before we can determine how good he really is (and I am sure he will get it in due time).
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
Personally I feel both Ramo and MacDonald have been average/mediocre in the games they have played so I don't really care that Hartley is going with MacDonald although there doesn't seem to be a clear reason or pattern to support MacDonald getting three straight starts despite losing his last game.
I will say though that Hartley seems to be one of those coaches that always likes to have a player or two in his doghouse. From his comments about Ramo after the first start it was pretty evident he wasn't happy despite the fact that MacDonald hasn't been much better but it's pretty clear we won't see Ramo again until MacDonald really stinks things up. We saw Blair Jones get banished last season for still unknown reasons. He didn't seem keen to play Sven at all until after the trade deadline. It's pretty obvious he's not a Horak fan as he went from being a regular under Brent to permanent AHL under Hartley. I just want to see players get a fair chance and Hartley seems to me like one of those guys that gets overly personal in some of his decisions.
Ramo has not inspired confidence going side to side. Perhaps the way he was owned in the shootout hurt his perception. We agree in that we don't care who starts either way.
Jones earned his demotion. The only thing he did well for Hartley was have a 53% faceoff win %. Despite that slight advantage starting out, and in quite sheltered minutes, he had a pretty significantly negative corsi.
Being a regular under Brent's underperforming regime means little. Horak has shown to be serviceable but not spectacular.
It does not seem to me like Hartley made decisions that were overly personal though it does seem like some people take them that way themselves.
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Is Ramo going to be the legitimate Flame's #1 goalie in 3 to 4 years from now?
If the answer is yes... then Hartley should be playing him more.
If the answer is no... then I don't really care if Hartley plays him or not.
I think the answer is they have no idea. Goalies are a tough breed to predict, and they have a couple of mid 20's guys that are unproven looking to see what they have, and some good youth in the pipe that could turn into something. They are definetly in a wait and see, see what sticks mode to the the goalie situation.
One thing I think impacts these decisions, is playing your best goalie at the time can also help the development of players in front of him. If Hartley thinks less of Sven's and Monohan's mistakes will end up in the back of the net by playing Joey Mac, he's got to consider that, because it will impact their confidence and development as things move along. Eventually he's got to figure out what he's got in Ramo and Berra, but I don't think he needs to do that in the first 10 games of the season, he's got all year to help figure that out.
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First of all, I think that is a very good question - so let's give it some consideration...
For Ramo, the answer is: I don't know - if they play him, the answer is maybe, but if they don't play him, the answer is no.
For MacDonald, the answer is no, whether they play him or not.
Pretty black and white decision tree if you ask me.
I agree that the decision tree lands on a Black and White answer. But that answer is, the Flames need to figure out what they have in Ramo (and Berra IMO) by playing them at some point in time this year.
I don't think it's Black and White as to when it needs to happen. I have no idea why Ramo's not getting the starts right now, but regardless of what it is, Hartley has a lot of time still to decide when is the rigth time to let Ramo and Berra showcase themselves and how they fit into our goaltending future.
I agree that the decision tree lands on a Black and White answer. But that answer is, the Flames need to figure out what they have in Ramo (and Berra IMO) by playing them at some point in time this year.
I don't think it's Black and White as to when it needs to happen. I have no idea why Ramo's not getting the starts right now, but regardless of what it is, Hartley has a lot of time still to decide when is the rigth time to let Ramo and Berra showcase themselves and how they fit into our goaltending future.
I completely agree with you. I was simply extending the other poster's thought.
But you're right, Ramo has only sat for three games. This time is allowing him to get more comfortable with the angles of the smaller ice, as well s the pace of the NHL. Three games is no big deal and it might actually be helping him.
However - and again, I am agreeing with you - they need to start playing him at some point. He's an asset of unknown value - let's see what we've got.
Hartley did get outcoached, I agree with the OP. Hartley put Monahan in some difficult situations, situations that a rookie probably shouldn't find himself three games into his career. He scored a goal, but was still a -3.
Hartley even had the last change, and still ended up playing our 3rd/4th lines against the Canucks' best. Harley & Co. need to be better. But in the big picture, I think Hartley will be great with the younger guys.
You don't need to prove that Hartley knows more about the team than the fans do. It doesn't follow, however, that he is above criticism.
Agreed. I'm not saying he is above criticism. That would be wrong. I just think the sentiment that he is off his rocker for starting MacDonald over Ramo are unfair. He had a hunch tonight and it paid off. We'll get to see Ramo lots this year. I don't see the need for panic in the fourth game over who the goalie is.
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After MacDonald's play in this game can we assume Bob Hartley knows more about this team, and which goalie should be in net, than anyone else?
I am just glad none of us here on CP is coaching the Calgary Flames.
I expect Hartley will ride the hot goalie so Joey Mac will start on Friday. Ramo will get his chance and I hope he gets hot too so we can see him play more.
