There is where I stopped reading. No word of a lie.
I actually have to thank you for that because as soon as I saw it I realized my screw up. That was viral not bacterial. I don't like not having a screw up pointed out, can't learn from it otherwise.
I would also like to point out that I am only stating my opinion TokenKingsFan seems to be the best voice in this discussion.
This is going back 40 years and some but all of my shots were done in school by the nurse.(Nun)
No forms just line up on Monday and it was done.
Parents got notified by the passport you had and the shots given.
God Bless Holy Cross School.
This is going back 40 years and some but all of my shots were done in school by the nurse.(Nun)
No forms just line up on Monday and it was done.
Parents got notified by the passport you had and the shots given.
God Bless Holy Cross School.
I can remember those days, one kid freaked out and was dragged backwards screaming by his arm/head/hair down the hall and through the gym by, I'm guessing, the PE teacher and held down and given the shots.
I actually have to jump in on the sanitation wagon as being huge. Vaccines don't stop bacterial infection, and if I had to chose between the two I would choose sanitation(though glad I have both).
With out proper(modern) sanitation we would still have massive outbreaks of cholera, and ecoli infection rates would be huge. The best example I know of happened in Peru a while back. We chlorinate our drinking water for a very good reason; chlorine has a long persistence time in the water unlike Ozone which is just as good a disinfectant.
What happened in Peru is that they switched to the Ozone over Chlorine in the drinking water which then resulted in a massive Cholera outbreak due to re-contamination of the water while in the pipes. Vaccinations would not prevent that.
But I love modern medical science without it I would be deaf and my wife(Spina Bifida) would have died shortly after birth.
Blow is a Rick Mercer rant on people not getting a Flu shot.
There are vaccines for whooping cough (the bacteria Bordetella pertussis), diphtheria (bacteria Corynebacterium diphtheriae) and several others.
We will probably never have a vaccine for E coli because most E. coli are good for you and live in your gut. What causes a coliform infection is foreign E. coli, but your immune system would have a hard time picking out foreign vs. native E. coli, thus a vaccine will not be readily available.
Of course, my blog post on how many infectious diseases were prevented by vaccines focused on just vaccine preventable diseases. Of course, better sanitation stops typhoid and cholera (both vaccine preventable), but I didn't include them because until the huge sanitation improvements across Europe after WWII and in the US/Canada before then, cholera and typhus nearly disappeared. But before then, vaccines were given.
And yes, a cholera vaccine would have prevented an outbreak in Peru, but no one would have been vaccinated in advance, because there would be an assumption that cholera was killed with the treatment of the water. BTW, what a dumb mistake on their part to not use chlorine. Probably the same group that made that decision now run the Panthers (who are also idiots).
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Scientist. Hockey, baseball, and college football/basketball fan (go Syracuse in the Final Four). Son worked for the Panthers, now works for the Ducks, but I just can't be a fan of the Ducks. Nope. No way. But I get free rink side tickets for every game, so I'll live.
As for vaccinations I think that people have the right to refuse vaccinations for themselves and their children. At the same time I also think that it is entirely irresponsible, dangerous and selfish at the same time. I understand that there is fear associated with immunizing your children, at the same time it is the best way that we can prevent the spread of diseases that kill people.
To actually answer your question yes and if memory serves me correct you can be quarantined during an outbreak if you are not immunized according to the public health act, which is linked below.
I have never agreed with the right to refuse vaccinations. If you join the US military, they give you every vaccination around, including stuff we civilians never get.
In the USA, Supreme Court rulings have given Federal, State and Local authorities the right to impose vaccinations on everyone. The principle for their decision is based on the greater good to the community. It has been challenged several times, and all have failed.
My understanding that Canada has similar rules, but not being Canadian-centric, except knowing how to sing O'Canada.
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Scientist. Hockey, baseball, and college football/basketball fan (go Syracuse in the Final Four). Son worked for the Panthers, now works for the Ducks, but I just can't be a fan of the Ducks. Nope. No way. But I get free rink side tickets for every game, so I'll live.
There are vaccines for whooping cough (the bacteria Bordetella pertussis), diphtheria (bacteria Corynebacterium diphtheriae) and several others.
We will probably never have a vaccine for E coli because most E. coli are good for you and live in your gut. What causes a coliform infection is foreign E. coli, but your immune system would have a hard time picking out foreign vs. native E. coli, thus a vaccine will not be readily available.
We already do have a vaccine developed for E. coli O158. It is targeted for cattle and is very successful, but will never be produced because it's too expensive (~$10 per dose) for cattle producers to justify the cost, since E. coli O158 doesn't cause disease in cattle, so it doesn't affect their production. I could find articles on this if you want, this info is from my professor at VIDO in Saskatoon, who actually helped develop the vaccine.
Just a side note, TokenKingsFan. You must have one of the highest posts to "thanks" ratio in the history of CP. Your first post on this forum has received 60 thanks so far, and you've made like 10 posts.
Just a side note, TokenKingsFan. You must have one of the highest posts to "thanks" ratio in the history of CP. Your first post on this forum has received 60 thanks so far, and you've made like 10 posts.
I believe the user Bronzel holds that record
The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to GGG For This Useful Post:
I have actually been thinking more and more about what TokenKingsFan has been saying and I really do think he is correct. I was having a bitch of a time thinking of bacterial vaccinations, which he has helped majorly. And I then began thinking about cost, ease of use and up keep from a third world perspective.
I have a back ground in industrial waste water treatment research, which I was relying on in this discussion. Things like biosand filtration are major for third world peoples, but they require upkeep and can be too easily tampered with versus having the red cross vaccinate a village.
One way I realized to look at this is from the HIV pandemic, a vaccine would be vastly more effective than sanitation(condoms). Token is correct that sanitation is never 100% and in this scenario vaccination is the clear winner.
As a side note I wonder if these anti vaccine people refuse to get their pets vaccinated too?
I have actually been thinking more and more about what TokenKingsFan has been saying and I really do think he is correct. I was having a bitch of a time thinking of bacterial vaccinations, which he has helped majorly. And I then began thinking about cost, ease of use and up keep from a third world perspective.
I have a back ground in industrial waste water treatment research, which I was relying on in this discussion. Things like biosand filtration are major for third world peoples, but they require upkeep and can be too easily tampered with versus having the red cross vaccinate a village.
One way I realized to look at this is from the HIV pandemic, a vaccine would be vastly more effective than sanitation(condoms). Token is correct that sanitation is never 100% and in this scenario vaccination is the clear winner.
As a side note I wonder if these anti vaccine people refuse to get their pets vaccinated too?
See, the issue is the complete and total bombardment of your immune system. Your body is still in need of rest and if the immune system gets tired there is no vaccine that can help you. Your body just can't keep up...
Yes, there are diseases that are not affected by a proper water system and treatment, but if you could only have one I still choose a sanitary system. Basic water is the most important ingredient for life. Clean water is even more important than that.
See, the issue is the complete and total bombardment of your immune system. Your body is still in need of rest and if the immune system gets tired there is no vaccine that can help you. Your body just can't keep up...
Yes, there are diseases that are not affected by a proper water system and treatment, but if you could only have one I still choose a sanitary system. Basic water is the most important ingredient for life. Clean water is even more important than that.
You are creating a false choice though by even having this discussion. We dont have to choose between sanitation and vaccination. We get both. The anti-vaxers than use this choice to turn it into sanitation is all you need.
Sorry, that sounded like your voice isn't important to me. It is. I am not a literal man and I work very hard to try to be literal and my imagination always gets the better of me. In some places in the world there is no modern sanitary situations and I think it is more important to have that base then Vaccines... What is the cost difference over time between the two?
A while back I posted about how excited I was that fluoride was removed from the water. Then there were a few really good posts that explained the nature of fluoride in water and how it changes when it is bound to other elements... Fascinating.
Last edited by To Be Quite Honest; 04-03-2013 at 10:13 PM.
Reason: added under the line
See, the issue is the complete and total bombardment of your immune system. Your body is still in need of rest and if the immune system gets tired there is no vaccine that can help you. Your body just can't keep up...
Yes, there are diseases that are not affected by a proper water system and treatment, but if you could only have one I still choose a sanitary system. Basic water is the most important ingredient for life. Clean water is even more important than that.
I honestly don't get what point you've been making over the course of this thread. It's almost like you're anti-vaccine, but don't want to admit it, yet still want to argue against it. Because it's not one or the other, but that's what you keep arguing, like the two options are against eachother. The only reason someone would do what you're doing in this thread, imo, is if they don't trust vaccines.
I honestly don't get what point you've been making over the course of this thread. It's almost like you're anti-vaccine, but don't want to admit it, yet still want to argue against it. Because it's not one or the other, but that's what you keep arguing, like the two options are against eachother. The only reason someone would do what you're doing in this thread, imo, is if they don't trust vaccines.
I'm not anti-vaccine. I've said that many times so please stop.
I believe that better sanitation is more important as a foundation for modern society and building modern societies in third world countries. It's a one two punch for-sure! For example, money that is used for third world countries go towards vaccines but there is no modern sanitation. The growth of disease is everywhere and a beaten down immune system can't fight it. Period.
I think it's great that an expert for Vaccinations chimes in! However, we also need a voice for sanitation and I'm not taking about anti-vaxxers. Just true experts that have the expert knowledge that nobody has posted in this thread yet. The closest is the book I posted. epub book
Again, if you don't want to participate then don't. Or just say Vaccines hands down if you don't want to go there. Don't be rude and put me into a position where I have already stated I am not.
