Healy could be a complete liar, although this seems like something odd to lie about, but he made it sound like signing something like that is routine when players are waiving their NTC/NMC.
I would have thought that when he said these are the 4 teams make a deal that would have been good enough as well.
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I'm not saying that Healy is a liar, but he wasn't a GM and has never worked out trades himself.
The point here is that Iginla never waived his no trade clause until the Pittsburgh deal was on the table. The actual act of waiving a clause involves signing a waiver, which Iginla didn't have to do until he wanted to. Giving the Flames a list of teams we would go to is not the same as waiving the clause (although it does suggest intent).
What Healy is talking about is what happens when a player actually waives. In a lot of cases, a player waives and then the actual trade doesn't happen until weeks later. That was not the case with Iginla. He held his right to waive until the last minute.
Some people can fault Feaster and the Flames for not insisting Iginla sign the waiver before they started negotiating deals with the teams that Iginla verbally gave them... and they have a point. Personally, I think when you have been friends and business assoicates with someone for 16 years, made them wealthy, and are trying to make a move that accommodates them; that their word should be enough. I guess I am naïve that way though.
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Last edited by FlamesAddiction; 03-29-2013 at 09:59 AM.
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The signed off list makes sense when there is some hostility with the player (Heatley-Ottawa).
When it is the franchise player who King and Edwards have worked closely with over the last 10 years it should not be an issue.
I love how Kipper and Iggy can do no wrong with this tea. Its just like the on ice product the last four years, Iggy and Kipper were never accountable.
Iggy gives his word on four teams.... changes his mind.... Iggys right Feaster should have had it in writing.
Kipper refuses a trade without a NTC....he's just a good family man its his right to give the Flames the ultimatum to retire.
You're complaining that no one is holding the players accountable after they've already been traded, while not holding management accountable? Ok.
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What kind of evidence is there to support this? I really don't get it.
Is it because other fans or friends of yours think so? Because CP says so or HFboards? Has any other significant, important person from another clubs operations group come out and say the flames management is poor and should be embarrassed?
I just don't agree with most of what CP posters think I guess.
I don't think that they have done an amazing job by any means, but do you think someone else could have done better over the last couple years considering what the Sutter era left behind?
Ken King and the owners above him need to be more responsible for the direction of this club.
Here's something to consider: I live in Southern Ontario and last night I was at a bar with some friends. At one point, a guy came in wearing a Calgary Flames hat. Throughout the night, people were literally pointing and laughing at him. Not only that, but I even overheard people walk up to him and offer their condolences on how bad the trade was. I'm not sure how the hockey community views Feaster personally, but to the average fan, we are the laughingstock of the league.
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Nothing unclassy using the NTC that was given to him. That's business and that's the way the world works. If my bosses want to ship me to 29 different places and I had control it would make sense to suggest places I may want to go, when the final call had to be made I would want to pick THE place I wanted to be.
Nothing unclassy about that.
I have no problem with them being "classy" and giving Iggy his choice. The problem is that KK made it sound like they were not really intendning to go the " classy" route and wanted Boston. The "classy" route happened, because the flames had made a mistake.
Also the "classy" thing to do after the mistake would have been to say nothing.
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The worst part about all of this is how fans can't do anything. It's now obvious to most of us how hopeless the situation is, but apparently our management thinks they are smarter than everyone else.
Two huge embarrassing blunders in one month.
Embarrassing. Frustrating. Infuriating.
That's the worst part about this mess. This team isn't going to improve, rebuild or not, until management is cleaned out. None of this, promote Weisbrod stuff either - gut everything and start fresh with some people with backbones.
It's truly hilarious how hard this organization tries to deflect any talk of a rebuild. But I guess when you put your foot in your mouth about how much better we are than the Oilers and how Feaster is above GMing a rebuilding team it makes sense that they'd try and spin it. They're just so concerned with everything, but making this a better hockey team long-term.
I'm not sure how the hockey community views Feaster personally, but to the average fan, we are the laughingstock of the league.
The layman thinks we got swindled because they see Iginla going for (essentially) 3 prospects. I wouldn't say it was that bad of a deal for losing Iggy for a month when we're out of the playoffs.
Here's something to consider: I live in Southern Ontario and last night I was at a bar with some friends. At one point, a guy came in wearing a Calgary Flames hat. Throughout the night, people were literally pointing and laughing at him. Not only that, but I even overheard people walk up to him and offer their condolences on how bad the trade was. I'm not sure how the hockey community views Feaster personally, but to the average fan, we are the laughingstock of the league.
Listen to any hockey radio or podcast and the people on it generally start laughing when the Flames are brought up. With the Oilers and Islanders still in the playoff hunt, we are truly the bottom of the barrel of the NHL right now. And you can't blame that on Sutter - the blame falls squarely on delusional management that refused to make tough decisions until they were beaten, bloodied and backed into a corner.
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The layman thinks we got swindled because they see Iginla going for (essentially) 3 prospects. I wouldn't say it was that bad of a deal for losing Iggy for a month when we're out of the playoffs.
By that reasoning, there is literally no bad deal that we could have gotten then. "Only managed a 4th round pick? Oh well, better than nothing. Good deal."
As for this looking like a bad trade to laymen, can you find anyone in the hockey world that thinks this is a good deal? Any pundits coming out in Feaster's defense?
If we asked Iggy for a list in writing would he have given a list of just pittsburgh? If that leaked out the deal gets even worse. When he gave the list in my opinion it was here isthe list I will considergoing to not will go to.
Even Morrow, according to rumors got to pick between Boston and Pittsburgh and chose Pittsburgh.
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Some people can fault Feaster and the Flames for not insisting for Iginla sign the waiver before they started negotiating deals with the teams that Iginla verbally gave them... and they have a point. Personally, I think when you have been friends and business assoicates with someone for 16 years, made them wealthy, and are trying to make a move that accommodates them; that their word should be enough. I guess I am naïve that way though.
As someone who has been very critical of the Feaster management group and want them gone even I have a hard time criticizing them for not having it in writing with Iginla.
I might criticizing for not realizing that he was going to switch (hard to tell how open he was with that) but if it was a case that Jarome told them he was cool with the 4 teams and then last minute told them something different I think that you would normally go on faith rather than needing written confirmation.
As for Healy I thought he was talking about knowledge from his time with the PA and working with agents/players with these deals.
As someone who has been very critical of the Feaster management group and want them gone even I have a hard time criticizing them for not having it in writing with Iginla.
I might criticizing for not realizing that he was going to switch (hard to tell how open he was with that) but if it was a case that Jarome told them he was cool with the 4 teams and then last minute told them something different I think that you would normally go on faith rather than needing written confirmation.
As for Healy I thought he was talking about knowledge from his time with the PA and working with agents/players with these deals.
But King said that if he had to do it over again or in the future, he will get a written agreement to go to 4 teams and file it with the league. He knows he messed up, He let Iginla make the trade.. why even have a GM?
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I'm not sure how the hockey community views Feaster personally, but to the average fan, we are the laughingstock of the league.
That's the million dollar question and I don't think we are in a position to know, but with the ROR thing and now this, I would think Feaster's reputation has taken a hit. Even if some of the circumstances were not all on him, perception is all that matters.
I think some people underestimate the value of image and reputation and how critical it can be when doing business in this industry. Sports is a very testosterone driven business. When someone appears weak and others smell blood, they will get eaten alive. This is why I was arguing before the trade that if the return for Iginla wasn't a slam dunk, there was a case to made for making a stand. Letting a player walk isn't the end of the world if it makes you appear stronger to your colleagues than giving in to a bad offer does. I feel that Feaster could have gambled for a few more days and played hardball a little longer.
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But King said that if he had to do it over again or in the future, he will get a written agreement to go to 4 teams and file it with the league. He knows he messed up, He let Iginla make the trade.. why even have a GM?
But that is a limited no trade. You think Iginla would have signed away his rights? Doubtful. He was in the driver's seat the whole time regardless
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Yeesh, those comments by King look bad the way they throw the player that has kept your franchise afloat all these years.
What a mess upstairs is. All I can hope is for a complete house cleaning in the hockey operations after this season. They've done one thing they needed to do, now Edwards needs to move onto the next phase.
But that is a limited no trade. You think Iginla would have signed away his rights? Doubtful. He was in the driver's seat the whole time regardless
Damn straight. Iginla and Meehan have been one of the shrewdest player/GM combinations in the league every time they've negotiated. There was no way they were giving up any power in this situation.
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But King said that if he had to do it over again or in the future, he will get a written agreement to go to 4 teams and file it with the league. He knows he messed up, He let Iginla make the trade.. why even have a GM?
Sure he would he got burned. I am saying that there was no reason (that I know of not knowing behind the scenes info) to believe that if Jarome told them 4 teams on Monday that when told he was going to one of those team that Jarome would change his mind.
You would think that Jarome would stand by what he said without needing a written document to enforce it.
I don't think the actual RETURN for Iginla is what people are concerned about. There isn't a huge difference between the rumored Boston offer and pitsburgs offer.
It's more a matter of the people that are responsible for running the organization are showing their incompetence. You are not supposed to me GM/President of an NHL team and screw up trading your franchises biggest player in it's history. After the ROR debacle, and now the Iginla blunder it's justified that fans are concerned about the management of the flames.
It's easy to make excuses for managements performance but it doesn't matter . Results are all the matter and the flames GM/President are not getting the job done.
Last edited by Yakbutter; 03-29-2013 at 10:03 AM.
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Iginla agreed to accept a trade to one of the 4 teams on that list, and that's exact what he did. If only one team had been interested, he'd have waived his NMC to go there, but because more than one team was interested, he got to choose between them. That was a right that he earned both contractually and through his play over the past decade plus. I'd have been disappointed in Feaster if he'd have let it play out any other way.
It would be nice for King to show a little class by not trying to spin the situation against Iginla, but I have no other issues with the way this was handled by anyone involved.
Edit: Disregard my second paragraph. It was based on the OP's summary of the interview rather than on the interview itself. After hearing it, King did not blame Iginla at all.
The worst part about all of this is how fans can't do anything. It's now obvious to most of us how hopeless the situation is, but apparently our management thinks they are smarter than everyone else.
Two huge embarrassing blunders in one month.
Embarrassing. Frustrating. Infuriating.
strongly disagree.
The fans can do something. Don't go to the games. Or try organizing one game to not go to. One game. or one period.
I said this after the lockout and I am saying it again now - the owners forget who pays their bills. And quite frankly, don't care what anyone thinks if the seats are filled.
