[NEWS] Update on Iginlas contract (but it is Francis)

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Teroy

It's interesting to read how many of you think we owe Iginla and Kipper something. They've been paid extremely well here in Calgary. They're rich beyond what most of us will ever imagine. That wealth has come from playing a "game". We owe them nothing. They gave us a few good years that we can remember. Unfortunatley we're having this conversation when neither of them are having a good season. They're passed their prime. Their value has decreased significantly and it's doubtful it will return. Trade them for what you can get and move on. This is not a retirement home for aged players.

I have to agree. Plus, where is Iginla's accountability?

This team has lacked heart, identity, or a winning culture for years. We haven't had any success since a fluke run to the finals almost 10-years ago. We have been a cap team throughout that time. And it has been Iginla's team.

Coaches have been fired. GMs have been fired. Core players have been traded. The fans have endured 4-seasons of frustration and missed playoffs and first round exits before that.

Where is his accountability? All the individual accomplishments in the world don't amount to team success. This has been Iginla's team and Iginla's team has failed.

Meanwhile he has earned close to 100-million of the fan bases money, has built a custom mansion and a high end cabin on the Shushwap that most of us would kill for.

And now he is holding the team for ransom because he can't make up his mind on what he wants to do. If he gets hurt on Monday where does that leave us? If he procrastinates his decision before walking in July where does that leave us?

We don't owe him anything. On the other hand he owes us the respect to make his decision and not leave the organization with nothing.

I love the guy. But enough is enough.

[Igottago]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I have to agree. Plus, where is Iginla's accountability?

This team has lacked heart, identity, or a winning culture for years. We haven't had any success since a fluke run to the finals almost 10-years ago. We have been a cap team throughout that time. And it has been Iginla's team.

Coaches have been fired. GMs have been fired. Core players have been traded. The fans have endured 4-seasons of frustration and missed playoffs and first round exits before that.

Where is his accountability? All the individual accomplishments in the world don't amount to team success. This has been Iginla's team and Iginla's team has failed.

Meanwhile he has earned close to 100-million of the fan bases money, has built a custom mansion and a high end cabin on the Shushwap that most of us would kill for.

And now he is holding the team for ransom because he can't make up his mind on what he wants to do. If he gets hurt on Monday where does that leave us? If he procrastinates his decision before walking in July where does that leave us?

We don't owe him anything. On the other hand he owes us the respect to make his decision and not leave the organization with nothing.

I love the guy. But enough is enough.

Stop being so dramatic. Iginla is not holding the team ransom, he is deciding what to do. It's been a great 2 way relationship between the organization and Iginla and its based on a high degree of mutual respect. I am glad most fans have a high degree of respect for him as well.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Iginla has done everything possible as a player to help this team succeed. Overall failures of the organization are out of his control.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I have to agree. Plus, where is Iginla's accountability?

This team has lacked heart, identity, or a winning culture for years. We haven't had any success since a fluke run to the finals almost 10-years ago. We have been a cap team throughout that time. And it has been Iginla's team.

Coaches have been fired. GMs have been fired. Core players have been traded. The fans have endured 4-seasons of frustration and missed playoffs and first round exits before that.

Where is his accountability? All the individual accomplishments in the world don't amount to team success. This has been Iginla's team and Iginla's team has failed.

Meanwhile he has earned close to 100-million of the fan bases money, has built a custom mansion and a high end cabin on the Shushwap that most of us would kill for.

And now he is holding the team for ransom because he can't make up his mind on what he wants to do. If he gets hurt on Monday where does that leave us? If he procrastinates his decision before walking in July where does that leave us?

We don't owe him anything. On the other hand he owes us the respect to make his decision and not leave the organization with nothing.

I love the guy. But enough is enough.

Absolutely the best post on the subject at hand. Many many thanks.

[nik-]

kehatch, you're swallowing management's "make Iginla the bad guy in this" hook line and sinker.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Igottago

Stop being so dramatic. Iginla is not holding the team ransom, he is deciding what to do. It's been a great 2 way relationship between the organization and Iginla and its based on a high degree of mutual respect. I am glad most fans have a high degree of respect for him as well.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Iginla has done everything possible as a player to help this team succeed. Overall failures of the organization are out of his control.

Deciding what to do 3-weeks away from the trade deadline is holding the team ransom. And although Iginla doesn't shoulder all of the responsibility of the team not being successful he certainly shoulders a fair amount. If you don't agree with that then you are the one not showing him any respect.

Originally Posted by nik-

kehatch, you're swallowing management's "make Iginla the bad guy in this" hook line and sinker.

Oh don't worry. The organization won't escape my wrath if we lose Iginla for nothing.

[Nuje]

Originally Posted by kehatch

We have been a cap team throughout that time.

What? Are you suggesting that Iginla should be held accountable because management chronically over-payed players?

Sure we're a cap team, but every million dollars of overpayment on a player can be counted as if it were a cap penalty (except a self-inflicted one). Two million here (Stajan) Three+ million here (Cammalleri...quick side note, I did like the trade as I was very low on Bourque...) and magically, you can add a 5 million dollar player to your team so long as he's available.

Of course these things aren't important. The problem is Iginla's leadership. If he just had that magic little spark of authority, EVERYTHING would be just fine. Stajan would be a first line center. There would be no Giordano slump. McGrattan would be so menacing, nobody would ever dare even body check a Flame!

This team is badly managed, and it's evident to anyone who's not deluding themselves. I really hope this silence on the Iginla issue is just to prevent advance public backlash from people who have no idea how contracts work, and think players only get traded because management thinks they suck. Sadly, I don't have that much faith in Flames management. I really don't.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Nuje

What? Are you suggesting that Iginla should be held accountable because management chronically over-payed players?

Sure we're a cap team, but every million dollars of overpayment on a player can be counted as if it were a cap penalty (except a self-inflicted one). Two million here (Stajan) Three+ million here (Cammalleri...quick side note, I did like the trade as I was very low on Bourque...) and magically, you can add a 5 million dollar player to your team so long as he's available.

Of course these things aren't important. The problem is Iginla's leadership. If he just had that magic little spark of authority, EVERYTHING would be just fine. Stajan would be a first line center. There would be no Giordano slump. McGrattan would be so menacing, nobody would ever dare even body check a Flame!

This team is badly managed, and it's evident to anyone who's not deluding themselves. I really hope this silence on the Iginla issue is just to prevent advance public backlash from people who have no idea how contracts work, and think players only get traded because management thinks they suck. Sadly, I don't have that much faith in Flames management. I really don't.

I say it again. If you don't feel that Iginla has any responsibility then you are the one that has no respect for him.

This team hasn't been well build. But it has had more talent then a number of teams that do constantly compete for a playoff spot.

The primary issues with this team over the last few seasons has been that they have been underachievers. They have lacked consistency of effort. That the core hasn't been good enough.

It prompted the trade of Phaneuf. It prompted the trade of Regehr.

Your saying that none of the blame falls on Iginla's feet? Even more so that we, as a fan base, supposedly owe him something that goes beyond a cheer and some respect?

I love the guy. I will cheer for the guy. And I respect the guys talent and leadership enough to include him in the list of people responsible for the lack of team success.

But I won't be satisfied with losing him for nothing out of some misplaced notion that we somehow owe that to him. And I won't disrespect him and his impact enough to say he hasn't earned any of the responsibility for the teams failure. Shame on you if you do.

[Nuje]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I say it again. If you don't feel that Iginla has any responsibility then you are the one that has no respect for him.

This team hasn't been well build. But it has had more talent then a number of teams that do constantly compete for a playoff spot.

The primary issues with this team over the last few seasons has been that they have been underachievers. They have lacked consistency of effort. That the core hasn't been good enough.

It prompted the trade of Phaneuf. It prompted the trade of Regehr.

Your saying that none of the blame falls on Iginla's feet? Even more so that we, as a fan base, supposedly owe him something that goes beyond a cheer and some respect?

I love the guy. I will cheer for the guy. And I respect the guys talent and leadership enough to include him in the list of people responsible for the lack of team success.

But I won't be satisfied with losing him for nothing out of some misplaced notion that we somehow owe that to him. And I won't disrespect him and his impact enough to say he hasn't earned any of the responsibility for the teams failure. Shame on you if you do.

We really aren't all that talented a team. Almost every forward on this team has been a one-hit wonder when it comes to scoring. A brief period of success, followed by falling back to earth. We have overpaid for these players often both monetarily, and in the assets that went to acquire them. The Flames seem to set these players' value at their best, rather than looking at their whole body of work, and perceived potential.

As far as Iginla leaving, where are you getting this "for nothing" crap? He should get traded for assets. Useful ones, that can begin to help us perhaps relatively soon (given Iginla's conditioning, he may still be an NHLer when they begin to pay off) and in the future, once Iginla's retired.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Oh don't worry. The organization won't escape my wrath if we lose Iginla for nothing.

Whew

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Nuje

We really aren't all that talented a team. Almost every forward on this team has been a one-hit wonder when it comes to scoring. A brief period of success, followed by falling back to earth. We have overpaid for these players often both monetarily, and in the assets that went to acquire them. The Flames seem to set these players' value at their best, rather than looking at their whole body of work, and perceived potential.

As far as Iginla leaving, where are you getting this "for nothing" crap? He should get traded for assets. Useful ones, that can begin to help us perhaps relatively soon (given Iginla's conditioning, he may still be an NHLer when they begin to pay off) and in the future, once Iginla's retired.

First, the lack of consistent success goes well beyond this season. Start with the beginning and go to the end of the last period between lockouts.

A lack of team character has been an issue ever since Sutter one stopped coaching the team. In fact, Sutter fired Playfair because the senior leaders he thought would have stepped up didn't. Every coach (Sutter one, Playfair, Keenan, Sutter two) and GM (Sutter one, Feaster) has talked about the character and leadership issues of this team.

A lack of team leadership has plagued this team for most of a decade. And Iginla is the team's leader. People that give him a full pass are in naive bliss. Must be nice.

Second, you clearly didn't follow the thread. The issue is that some people feel we owe it to Iginla to give him the time to make this hard decision. Even if it goes past the deadline or he gets injured. I disagree. We don't owe that to Iginla at all. Iginla owes it to us, the people that have funded and supported him, to either sign an extension or agree to a trade.

The fact that the he isn't talking deal or trade with the team is disrespectful to the franchise that supported him.

[Nuje]

Originally Posted by kehatch

First, the lack of consistent success goes well beyond this season. Start with the beginning and go to the end of the last period between lockouts.

A lack of team character has been an issue ever since Sutter one stopped coaching the team. In fact, Sutter fired Playfair because the senior leaders he thought would have stepped up didn't. Every coach (Sutter one, Playfair, Keenan, Sutter two) and GM (Sutter one, Feaster) has talked about the character and leadership issues of this team.

A lack of team leadership has plagued this team for most of a decade. And Iginla is the team's leader. People that give him a full pass are in naive bliss. Must be nice.

Second, you clearly didn't follow the thread. The issue is that some people feel we owe it to Iginla to give him the time to make this hard decision. Even if it goes past the deadline or he gets injured. I disagree. We don't owe that to Iginla at all. Iginla owes it to us, the people that have funded and supported him, to either sign an extension or agree to a trade.

The fact that the he isn't talking deal or trade with the team is disrespectful to the franchise that supported him.

Fair enough on your last point if he's jerking them around. Certainly any GOOD management team would have been in these discussions for a while now. With a NTC, talking trade with him would be necessary as well obviously. Maybe they are talking about it in private which would be the ideal situation. It just sucks for us fans to not know I suppose.

But on coaches/GMs talking leadership issues, you are WAY off. Coaches and GMs say those things to deflect blame off themselves. Nothing more. Because if the "leadership" isn't the problem...then it's the quality of the roster, which falls on the GM.

Really, I would be quite ok with Feaster if it wasn't already obvious (given the neutral trade deadlines, and the O'Reilly debacle) that it's more of the same as we saw under Darryl. Patchwork, patchwork patchwork. Iginla + Kiprusoff + patchwork = playoffs maybe. Darryl made a freaking mess, and Feaster isn't doing a great job to clean up, and could even be making it worse.

But this is all Iginla's fault.

[pacde]

Iggy has been a leader on this team for more than a dozen years. He is more than a hockey player in this town, and even more than an icon, he is a responsible model for the kids as well as the best hockey player this town has ever seen. The team has never managed to build support for him, never managed to get him his first line center and let one season after another go by burning this great players career.

Iginla produced, fought and showed his passion and fire. He embodied what it was to be a professional on this team who couldnt seem to do whatever it was that was required to put them over the top. In my mind he should retire a Flame.

If and when he goes, this team loses an ambassador - we basically become Columbus and its where the players that get traded here against their will, or players end up trying to resurrect their career - unless we get lucky.

I hope we appreciate high draft picks, for a while, unless we give other players hope, its hard to attract them. Im not saying Iginla is the only factor that seperates us from them - and Im not even sure we arent close to being at that position already - but I am pretty sure that Iginla is one factor that seperates us from that.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Nuje

But this is all Iginla's fault.

I never said that it was. But some of it is. Anyone with an ounce of objectivity that has followed this team can see that this team has lacked character on the ice. And Iginla is the leader on the ice.

[Nuje]

Originally Posted by kehatch

I never said that it was. But some of it is. Anyone with an ounce of objectivity that has followed this team can see that this team has lacked character on the ice. And Iginla is the leader on the ice.

I disagree. I think it just seems that way because we are outclassed by teams with superior rosters very often.

[zamler]

Originally Posted by Nuje

I disagree. I think it just seems that way because we are outclassed by teams with superior rosters very often.

Not really. Iginla has taken many games off, you can't blame the players around him for that. And he's been a no show in many important games, plus his slow starts have really hurt the team.

[Nuje]

Originally Posted by zamler

Not really. Iginla has taken many games off, you can't blame the players around him for that. And he's been a no show in many important games, plus his slow starts have really hurt the team.

So if you swapped Iginla for a slightly less (or even equally) talented, but considerably more consistent star, we'd be fine? I highly doubt that. I love nothing more than watching the Flames play a perfect 60 minutes and disable anything the opponents throw at them, but there's a reason they can't do that every night, and it's not one tiny little tweak, or fix. It's not a coach. It's not one player. It's not "who has the 'c'".

The reason is that we are "outclassed" by a team which is simply better. They are able to do it more consistently because they have more tools. They have more players capable of more things, be it out-muscling opponents, or dangling around them, or having more puck possession due to having plain old better hockey sense. There are ALWAYS two teams on the ice. Of course when you lose, you can't control what the other team does, and you want to find your mistakes in hopes of finding ways to win, but the Flames most often don't have the tools to do so.

[Dion]

Originally Posted by zamler

Not really. Iginla has taken many games off, you can't blame the players around him for that. And he's been a no show in many important games, plus his slow starts have really hurt the team.

Problem is his skills have declined and the team still relies on him to be thier top player. Cripes we don't have a player on the roster or in the system that could step into his role if he was traded. That's how bad this team has been mismanaged

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Dion

A bit harsh?

It was over the top and uncalled for.

I have come to expect it as just typical fodder from Erick Estrada. Sprinkled amid a number of quality posts are the ramblings of a man who likes to massage his own ego from behind a keyboard.

[The Professor]

Originally Posted by Nuje

So if you swapped Iginla for a slightly less (or even equally) talented, but considerably more consistent star, we'd be fine? I highly doubt that. I love nothing more than watching the Flames play a perfect 60 minutes and disable anything the opponents throw at them, but there's a reason they can't do that every night, and it's not one tiny little tweak, or fix. It's not a coach. It's not one player. It's not "who has the 'c'".

The reason is that we are "outclassed" by a team which is simply better. They are able to do it more consistently because they have more tools. They have more players capable of more things, be it out-muscling opponents, or dangling around them, or having more puck possession due to having plain old better hockey sense. There are ALWAYS two teams on the ice. Of course when you lose, you can't control what the other team does, and you want to find your mistakes in hopes of finding ways to win, but the Flames most often don't have the tools to do so.

I've been conducting an experiment the last few weeks, I try watching games of two other teams, pick a side a pretend I'm a disgruntled fan of that team. It's amazing to me, but the frequency of "back check Malkin!/Iginla" or "stop forcing passes Jagr!/Tanguay" or "one week goal ever game Price!/Kipper" seems to be about the same as with the Flames.

We are near the bottom of the league right now, but they are not abysmal. They are not the only team that runs around in their own end, or gives up leads late in games, or has players cherry picking.

The Flames have NEVER finished bottom five in the NHL. I hope they never do, even though I hope we make some trades for multiple firsts and prospects!

[Dion]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

No it's not. That's just your opinion as was mine based on a speculated scenario. For all we know if the Flames asks him to waive he may accommodate and for all we know he signs elsewhere in the summer.

It's speculation that has no basis in reality. How can anyone say he's a "coward" or "doesn't want to win" when they don't know him on a personal basis. That kind of talk is akin to reading the National Enquirer or any other of those trash magazines. To me it's an unfair attack on his character without truth.