Give Irving the next few starts

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by moon

I would like to see this love that people in this forum have for him.

It seems that people have said he shouldn't be canned for nothing and that he is better than a goalie nobody wanted on waivers and two career minor leaguers with no contracts from NHL teams.

That seems a long way from "love."

Exactly. I'm not saying Irving is going to be some NHL superstar or guerenteed NHL starter, but I'm not ready to dump on him either.

Especially over 2 AHL goalies who, with no offense to them, are just that - AHL goalies; and there are tons of AHL goalies who never make the NHL for obvious reasons.

[kirant]

Originally Posted by VANFLAMESFAN

He's 36 for 9 more months.

My math sucks.

Either way, I think the point stands that he's at the age where he's going to start winding down in skill. The level we're used to seeing out of Kiprusoff isn't going to be what he's going to be like forever.

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Kipper stole a freakin' point in the game against Vancouver. How quickly we forget.

I don't think people are forgetting. I think people are seeing massive swings on inconsistency that aren't the Kiprusoff we remember.

That being said of course, Kiprusoff isn't the same Kiprusoff we remember. Which is where my posts generally go.

[Dogbert]

Kipper and Iginla are having slow starts, just like every other season they've been here? Say it isn't so!

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by Dogbert

Kipper and Iginla are having slow starts, just like every other season they've been here? Say it isn't so!

Exactly. We are a Vancouver coin flip and a bad 5 minute stretch away from a record of 3-3. And this is with a "best" players being far from it. Iggy, Kipper and Cammy should dramatically improve based on recent history. There is a possibility they won't, and if so, then we are in big trouble. But if Kipper was even average in the Anaheim and Colorodo games we easily could've won those. All teams lose to bad teams throughout the course of a season, so maybe it's time to take a step back from the ledge a bit, until maybe the 12-15 game mark. Who knows, maybe the 4 days rest was a bad thing, hard to ride the momentum from the Edmonton game after 4 days off. Let's see what kind of team shows up tomorrow against the top team in the league.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by moon

There are some differences between Ramo and Cerevenka's situations that don't make them great comparables but in terms of Ramo-Irving, I am not sure exactly who is better but neither one has shown much more than the other and neither one has shown anything close to indicating that they can be more than a 10 game a year mediocre-bad back-up in the NHL.

Still much too early to say that Comeau isn't better than Cerevenka as well.

How can you say that given Ramo's accomplishments in the KHL? It isn't like that league is way inferior to the AHL and Ramo's numbers have been simply outstanding. As for saying that it is too early to say that Cervenka may not be better than Comeau, wow. We could probably put you on skates and you wouldn't show any worse than Blake Comeau.

[moon]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

How can you say that given Ramo's accomplishments in the KHL? It isn't like that league is way inferior to the AHL and Ramo's numbers have been simply outstanding. As for saying that it is too early to say that Cervenka may not be better than Comeau, wow. We could probably put you on skates and you wouldn't show any worse than Blake Comeau.

I don't really rate his accomplishments there that high or think that they are that impressive. I thought someone posted the list of goalies stats and he was 10-15th for save percentage and GAA? He seems to have similar stats to his back-ups as well and I am not hoping that Feaster rushes out to sign such studs as scoring leaders Bradan Bochinski, Kevin Dallman and Tony Martensson either.

[doctajones428]

Kipper had one softie last night. He was hung up dry and had no support for 3. One was a boo boo when Bouw fanned the puck during that power play.

Regardless, it's time to give Irving a shot

[North East Goon]

Irving is not NHL ready, Ramo is not either. Kipper is ready to become a full time fisherman, this is going to cost jobs in hockey operations for the Flames going forward.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by moon

I don't really rate his accomplishments there that high or think that they are that impressive. I thought someone posted the list of goalies stats and he was 10-15th for save percentage and GAA? He seems to have similar stats to his back-ups as well and I am not hoping that Feaster rushes out to sign such studs as scoring leaders Bradan Bochinski, Kevin Dallman and Tony Martensson either.

I don't think you have even paid attention to him then. The guy is one of the biggest stars in the KHL and the only reason Avangard competes at all. Even when the team is not playing well his GAA and SP are impressive.

Karri Ramo
2009/10 Avangard GP: 44 W:21 L17 T:4 GAA: 2.11 SP: 0.913
2010/11 Avangard: GP: 44 W:33 L:6 T:4 GAA: 1.97 SP: 0.925
2011/12 Avangard GP: 45 W:19 L:17 T:9 GAA: 1.96 SP: 0.925
2012/13 Avangard GP: 38 W:26 L:8 T:4 GAA: 1.98 SP: 930

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by moon

There are some differences between Ramo and Cerevenka's situations that don't make them great comparables but in terms of Ramo-Irving, I am not sure exactly who is better but neither one has shown much more than the other and neither one has shown anything close to indicating that they can be more than a 10 game a year mediocre-bad back-up in the NHL.

Still much too early to say that Comeau isn't better than Cerevenka as well.

It is tough to gauge Ramo effectively right now. Many people feel he was rushed into the NHL. What he has shown in the KHL has been really good. He has been CONSISTENT in the last 4 years there. He also took his team to the finals last year. Also, on one of his all-star appearances, he garnered more votes than any other player in the KHL. Does this mean he will be a great starting goalie in the NHL? Not necessarily, but at least he has shown consistency at a high level. Gives reason to most fans to be fairly optimistic (though this optimism has to be tempered somewhat).

I rank Ramo higher than Irving just based on his consistency. For those that feel the KHL doesn't translate at all into the NHL, then he has shown nothing. If you feel the KHL is a legitimately strong league, then he definitely has shown that he is at least a strong candidate to becoming the next Flames' starting goalie.

I personally feel that the long-term solution is with the other prospects - Brossoit, Gillies or even Ortio. I look at Irving and Ramo both as stop-gaps for now, but hope either one steps up and legitimately becomes a good starting goalie.

I don't like the fact that Irving allowed 2 AHL journeymen (3 if you count Keetley) to surpass him during his career in the AHL. Ramo, on the other hand, has continually been great on his team. To say Ramo hasn't shown anything would imply that you view the KHL as meaningless in terms of translating to the NHL.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by North East Goon

Irving is not NHL ready, Ramo is not either. Kipper is ready to become a full time fisherman, this is going to cost jobs in hockey operations for the Flames going forward.

Out of curiosity, why do you feel Ramo is not ready?

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by doctajones428

Kipper had one softie last night. He was hung up dry and had no support for 3. One was a boo boo when Bouw fanned the puck during that power play.

Regardless, it's time to give Irving a shot

Goal #1:


Several barfs on this play. Butler, barfs all over the puck with that fan. Sarich barfs all over the puck and the terrible zamboni door ice and can't move the puck. Huge, disgusting pile of puke on that play by the entire organization for the vomit inducing ice conditions. Glencross then has a nice big puke, leaving the zone, high, with 44 seconds left in the period, tied. He's supposed to the be a defensive guy. Give me a break. Get in there and give your dman a break. Big pile of puke on that play. Finally, the biggest puke is Sarich, who decides to play Kipper. It's a terrible impersonation and leaves Kipper saying "What the heck dude?" That's a big pile of vomit sauce. A disgusting mess all over the ice, but there ain't much mess in the crease.

Second goal is a defensive breakdown, but there's no way that weak backhander should trickle through if it's not for the huge pile of greasy puke covering kipper's pads on the play. Awful gatorade puke stains lead to that terrible goal.

Goal #3:


Big slick pile 'o bile from Cory Sarich on this one. Who are you covering, Cory? If you can't handle the puck, take the body. You can't just keep caughing your messy pre-game chicken and pasta behind your own net and ALWAYS blame it on the ice. Take the man, forget about the puck. You're a monster, quit spilling your beans and rice all over the place and maybe you'll stick in the lineup. Clean up your mess man, it smells awful.

Goal #4:


What the hell is the point of employing scantily clad ice-babes if they aren't going to clean up the puddles of vomit left behind the net by Flames defenders? Jay slips on a gross mix of his and Sarich's previous numerous pukes in an oderrous amalgamation of pasta with chicken and stir fried chicken with rice, soy sauce and red sauce doing battle like the avs and flames. Bouwmeester slips and fans in the puke, kipper slips on his own puke and bam, the second stinkiest goal of the night is in the back of the net. By the way, isn't that Jokinen's move?

Goal #5:

Wideman and Giordano, jealous of the disgusting mess that their fellow defensemen have managed to make of themselves, do their best to outdo them with such a horrendous display of projectile vomiting that I'm almost inclined to forget the previous vomitrocities. What a setup by wideman, sends it up the boards to nobody, moves to the front of the net and covers nobody, and then screens the goalie on the 2-1 while Giordano decides to...go for a change? Pick up some loose change? I don't know, because the whole thing was covered in so much barf I could barely watch it.

The top line was on the ice. You can't see them. Not because they're covered in puke, but because they aren't in the frame. The overhead shot is the most damning of them all.

[moon]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

I don't think you have even paid attention to him then. The guy is one of the biggest stars in the KHL and the only reason Avangard competes at all. Even when the team is not playing well his GAA and SP are impressive.

Karri Ramo
2009/10 Avangard GP: 44 W:21 L17 T:4 GAA: 2.11 SP: 0.913
2010/11 Avangard: GP: 44 W:33 L:6 T:4 GAA: 1.97 SP: 0.925
2011/12 Avangard GP: 45 W:19 L:17 T:9 GAA: 1.96 SP: 0.925
2012/13 Avangard GP: 38 W:26 L:8 T:4 GAA: 1.98 SP: 930

From what I have seen and heard those numbers are very similar to many other goalies in the league and again similar to his back-ups numbers so the team can't be that awful relying on him to save their bacon.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

It is tough to gauge Ramo effectively right now. Many people feel he was rushed into the NHL. What he has shown in the KHL has been really good. He has been CONSISTENT in the last 4 years there. He also took his team to the finals last year. Also, on one of his all-star appearances, he garnered more votes than any other player in the KHL. Does this mean he will be a great starting goalie in the NHL? Not necessarily, but at least he has shown consistency at a high level. Gives reason to most fans to be fairly optimistic (though this optimism has to be tempered somewhat).

I rank Ramo higher than Irving just based on his consistency. For those that feel the KHL doesn't translate at all into the NHL, then he has shown nothing. If you feel the KHL is a legitimately strong league, then he definitely has shown that he is at least a strong candidate to becoming the next Flames' starting goalie.

I personally feel that the long-term solution is with the other prospects - Brossoit, Gillies or even Ortio. I look at Irving and Ramo both as stop-gaps for now, but hope either one steps up and legitimately becomes a good starting goalie.

I don't like the fact that Irving allowed 2 AHL journeymen (3 if you count Keetley) to surpass him during his career in the AHL. Ramo, on the other hand, has continually been great on his team. To say Ramo hasn't shown anything would imply that you view the KHL as meaningless in terms of translating to the NHL.

I wouldn't say meaningless but for at least 95% of the guys in the league I think they are there for a reason and it isn't because they are top 6 forwards/top 4 defense/starting goalies in the NHL.

When the top scorers he is facing are Radulov, Bochinski and Dallman, I am a little less than impressed.

[MisterJoji]

Originally Posted by North East Goon

Irving is not NHL ready, Ramo is not either. Kipper is ready to become a full time fisherman, this is going to cost jobs in hockey operations for the Flames going forward.

I'd like to know why people are so sure of this? He has given no hints or soundbites that this is true. His salary drop next year is significant, but of he can pull himself out of his current funk and return to his true form, why wouldn't he play the last year of his deal (still over a million) and sign another 1-2 year deal worth 3-3.5 million. Goalies are playing effectively well into their mid-late 30's. despite going back to Finland every summer, he has given no indication that he wants out of North America ASAP.

[bubbsy]

just looking at the stats, kipper is 2nd worst of ALL goaltenders in the league this season in save%, and 4th worst in the league in GAA.

luckily we've also played the least number of games in the league this season by 2-3 games compared to other teams. Another season, another crappy start forcing the team to be behind the 8ball...

[Fire Park '71]

Ha! The eight ball has lapped the Flames. If you can get a 2nd round pick for 34 you do it. Bring Brust or Taylor in and have them platoon the goaltending position with Irving. Win and you'll start the next game. Lose and the other guy comes in. Healthy competition on the blue-line, right now. Why not the goalie position as well?

[Enoch Root]

Remember a couple years ago (January) when Kipper had a slump and was awful for a couple weeks and everyone freaked out and said he's old and he's done and we should have traded him the previous year? Then the slump ended and he carried the team on his back again for the rest of the year and the extire next season?

[PeteLFan]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Remember a couple years ago (January) when Kipper had a slump and was awful for a couple weeks and everyone freaked out and said he's old and he's done and we should have traded him the previous year? Then the slump ended and he carried the team on his back again for the rest of the year and the extire next season?

He has been bad all season long so far, we cant have him having a slump in a 48 game season or we are toast. This team is only going to go as far as our goalie will take us. Right now he is taking us to our first ever 1st overall draft pick.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Remember a couple years ago (January) when Kipper had a slump and was awful for a couple weeks and everyone freaked out and said he's old and he's done and we should have traded him the previous year? Then the slump ended and he carried the team on his back again for the rest of the year and the extire next season?

I agree, but he could still track the puck. This years start hes like a blind man trying to catch a beach ball.