Whats your stance on gun control ?

[Daradon]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

People who advocate a state monopoly on deadly force scare the crap out of me.

People who think it's smart for everyone to be carrying around deadly weapons scare the crap out of me.

There has to be a limit somewhere. Not everyone wants to carry around guns or can carry around guns. What about their rights to live in a free and safe society? Too bad, so sad, cause you can't protect yourself the same way someone else can?

Don't give me the crap about the good Samaritans who help these people because THEY can carry guns. It rarely happens. What does happen more often though is dangerous people become more dangerous than they could in a society where the rules are stricter (wherever you decide to draw the line).

[Badger Bob]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Although history teaches us tyranical goverments operate with the consent of the people and in the case of the US keep their citizans quiet while stripping them of liberty by letting them keep their guns as a pacifier, in the end guns in america did nothing to stop slavery, prohibition the jim crow laws the Japanese internment, McCarthy, drug laws or the systamatic stipping of basic rights of habeus corpus execution without trial or privacy under 'the war on terror'.

Most of those episodes, listed, didn't results in deaths of citizens (McCarthy and not sure how many casualties were in the Japanese-American internment camps). Suspension of habeus corpus was not a recent idea. Lincold did, and, technically, the North invaded the South. Not sure what most of those examples have to do with the original quotes, but (pardon the expression) fire away. Drug laws? Well, yeah, there probably have been situations when the DEA came in on a coke bust, and was greeted with a few shots fired.

Nevertheless, those quotes express the intentions for the 2nd Amendment.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Badger Bob

Most of those episodes, listed, didn't results in deaths of citizens (McCarthy and not sure how many casualties were in the Japanese-American internment camps). Suspension of habeus corpus was not a recent idea. Lincold did, and, technically, the North invaded the South. Not sure what most of those examples have to do with the original quotes, but (pardon the expression) fire away. Drug laws? Well, yeah, there probably have been situations when the DEA came in on a coke bust, and was greeted with a few shots fired.

Nevertheless, those quotes express the intentions for the 2nd Amendment.

The point I was making his the the US has never been free of tyranny, it has always been a country where the white majority has ruled tyranically over others, guns did nothing to stop that, and a Hitler like goverment that arrests and interns millions is probably more likely in the US than any other western country, of course the interned will be latinos or blacks and most white americans will continue to go on about how their country is a shining beacon of freedom just as they did while owning slaves or stopping black people from voting.

Guns not only have not nor will ever stop tyranny, but in the US are a part of the reason people don't recognise tyranny, guns have been a sop to keep americans thinking they are free while the goverment does what ever it wants, up to and including killing US citizans without trial.

[driveway]

Originally Posted by mikey_the_redneck

People who advocate a state monopoly on deadly force scare the crap out of me.

I live in a country with a state monopoly on deadly force and it's really quite nice.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by DuffMan

I was watching some of Piers Morgan last night and he was in Texas talking to some Republican gun fanatics, but near the end of the show Ted Nugent was going to be on.

So they were having the expected conversation, and Ted came out with the "an armed society is a polite society" statement. piers asked him if he knew what the 2 mosted heavily armed countries were. Ted guessed US and Switzerland, but Piers said it was US and Yemen, then he asked if Ted thought Yemen was a polite society. I laughed.

Nugent is a nut!
I met him in the YYC waiting area once,I was telling him how I grew up to Cat Scratch Fever,Hey Baby..etc and saw him open for Kiss in San Diego once but all he wanted to say was how ######ed the Canadian authorities were by checking his stupid bow hunting equipment.

Oh and he's deaf in one ear,(from music or shotguns?) he changed seats to hear me but he didn't listen anyway...one hell of a guitar player in his day though!

[missdpuck]

Now I guess we're going to hang around and aim our AR-15s at the drones...

[T@T]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The point I was making his the the US has never been free of tyranny, it has always been a country where the white majority has ruled tyranically over others, guns did nothing to stop that, and a Hitler like goverment that arrests and interns millions is probably more likely in the US than any other western country, of course the interned will be latinos or blacks and most white americans will continue to go on about how their country is a shining beacon of freedom just as they did while owning slaves or stopping black people from voting.

Guns not only have not nor will ever stop tyranny, but in the US are a part of the reason people don't recognise tyranny, guns have been a sop to keep americans thinking they are free while the goverment does what ever it wants, up to and including killing US citizans without trial.

Holy rant batman, Get over it,Slavery has been gone for 150 years, Blacks have had full voting rights for probably longer then you have been alive. I take it the bolded part is about drone killings? about the converted American citizan ######s that took to al-Qaeda to kill as many Americans as they could? only to have a drone drop some woop-ass on them..boo hoo

Do yourself a favor,get over ancient history and get in line with ending terrorism and enjoy your life..

[driveway]

Originally Posted by T@T

Holy rant batman, Get over it,Slavery has been gone for 150 years, Blacks have had full voting rights for probably longer then you have been alive.

...

Do yourself a favor,get over ancient history and get in line with ending terrorism and enjoy your life..

This is the most ignorant thing I've ever heard or read.

[Matata]

I used to be really into conspiracy theories, but the only ones that are ever true are how the US gov't has completely f'ed over their black folk.

Does the US gov't put fluoride in the water to promote mind control? Probably not.
Did the US gov't inject crack-cocaine into poor black communities in order to fund Contra's in South America? They sure as hell did, John Kerry led the congressional committee and a whole lot of people were found guilty (but they all got presidential pardons, that's how the US gov't rolls).

Just because the US gov'ts treatment of it's black citizens is measurably less horrific than it's been in the past, doesn't mean that things are in the 'ancient history, get over it' phase yet.

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by T@T

Holy rant batman, Get over it,Slavery has been gone for 150 years, Blacks have had full voting rights for probably longer then you have been alive. I take it the bolded part is about drone killings? about the converted American citizan ######s that took to al-Qaeda to kill as many Americans as they could? only to have a drone drop some woop-ass on them..boo hoo

Do yourself a favor,get over ancient history and get in line with ending terrorism and enjoy your life..

You completely misunderstand debate, but as your a septic I will overlook this and 'splain it to in simple terms you might understand.

Their are only 2 arguements that might justify 300 million guns in the US, self protection and protection against tyranny.

Self protection, we know statistically, is a bust, not only does a gun not keep you safe, it actually makes you 5 times more likely to get shot, and 30,000 gun deaths per year makes it clear guns are not keeping the US safe on any level.

Defence against tyranny is the arguement that gun avocates are now coming back to in order to justify the 30,000 dead americans, the trouble with this arguement is, as I pointed out, the US has always had tyranny against its minorities, tyranny is always against a few, be they black or hispanic or US citizans that are 'muslim terrorists'.
Why is this important, because it proves that guns do not protect the US from tyranny, drone strikes, Jim Crow, voter deregistration this is what tyranny will look like in a modern country.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by missdpuck

Now I guess we're going to hang around and aim our AR-15s at the drones...

Nobody cares that drones might be legal to use against US citizens.

[Plett25]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

You completely misunderstand debate, but as your a septic I will overlook this and 'splain it to in simple terms you might understand.

That's a crappy thing to call someone.

[Azure]

This is pretty interesting.

1. Thousands of children die annually in gun accidents.

False. Gun accidents involving children are actually at record lows, although you wouldn’t know it from listening to the mainstream media. In 1997, the last year for which data are available, only 142 children under 15 years of age died in gun accidents, and the total number of gun-related deaths for this age group was 642. More children die each year in accidents involving bikes, space heaters or drownings. The often repeated claim that 12 children per day die from gun violence includes “children” up to 20 years of age, the great majority of whom are young adult males who die in gang-related violence.

2. Gun shows are responsible for a large number of firearms falling into the hands of criminals.

False. Contrary to President Clinton’s claims, there is no “gun show loophole.” All commercial arms dealers at gun shows must run background checks, and the only people exempt from them are the small number of non-commercial sellers. According to the U.S. Department of Justice, at most 2 percent of guns used by criminals are purchased at gun shows, and most of those were purchased legally by people who passed background checks.

4. States that allow registered citizens to carry concealed weapons have lower crime rates than those that don’t.

True. The 31 states that have “shall issue” laws allowing private citizens to carry concealed weapons have, on average, a 24 percent lower violent crime rate, a 19 percent lower murder rate and a 39 percent lower robbery rate than states that forbid concealed weapons. In fact, the nine states with the lowest violent crime rates are all right-to-carry states. Remarkably, guns are used for self-defense more than 2 million times a year, three to five times the estimated number of violent crimes committed with guns.

5. Waiting periods lower crime rates.

False. Numerous studies have been conducted on the effects of waiting periods, both before and after the federal Brady bill was passed in 1993. Those studies consistently show that there is no correlation between waiting periods and murder or robbery rates. Florida State University professor Gary Kleck analyzed data from every U.S. city with a population over 100,000 and found that waiting periods had no statistically significant effect. Even University of Maryland anti-gun researcher David McDowell found that “waiting periods have no influence on either gun homicides or gun suicides.”

http://www.cato.org/publications/com...yths-realities

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Azure

Nobody cares that drones might be legal to use against US citizens.

Depends on your standard of 'legal', personally I don't think there is ever a justification for killing a citizen without a trial, in abstentia if need be

[afc wimbledon]

Originally Posted by Plett25

That's a crappy thing to call someone.

hold over from my guardian talk days

[Azure]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

Depends on your standard of 'legal', personally I don't think there is ever a justification for killing a citizen without a trial, in abstentia if need be

Well the Obama Administration is playing pretty loose with whatever the definition of legal possibly could be.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by Azure

This is pretty interesting.

Hey, I'm not sure if you heard about this, but a little over a month ago, someone with an Assault Rifle went into a school and killed a whole bunch of kids, they were like 6 years old.

Also, maybe you didn't hear about this one either, but about a year or so ago, some guy pulled out an assault rifle in a movie theater and shot and killed a whole bunch of people.

pretty interesting stuff eh?

[Badger Bob]

Originally Posted by afc wimbledon

The point I was making his the the US has never been free of tyranny, it has always been a country where the white majority has ruled tyranically over others, guns did nothing to stop that, and a Hitler like goverment that arrests and interns millions is probably more likely in the US than any other western country, of course the interned will be latinos or blacks and most white americans will continue to go on about how their country is a shining beacon of freedom just as they did while owning slaves or stopping black people from voting.

Guns not only have not nor will ever stop tyranny, but in the US are a part of the reason people don't recognise tyranny, guns have been a sop to keep americans thinking they are free while the goverment does what ever it wants, up to and including killing US citizans without trial.

OK, you want to debate other topics. Plus, my eyes are glazing over from your rambling first sentence/paraphrase. Been nice talking to ya.

[Badger Bob]

Originally Posted by T@T

Blacks have had full voting rights for probably longer then you have been alive.

Definitely before his parents started dating, and possibly before they were even born.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by driveway

This is the most ignorant thing I've ever heard or read.

Don't get out much do ya?