I think they offer a lot by identifying and championing issues.
Look at the Land Use Framework from the previous session. The first draft that passed had some terrible passages in it that were passed. The opposition continued to hammer the government and highlight the problems with the bill until they relented and revised the contentious portions of the bill.
There was a lot more to that though; yes, the opposition was relentless, but they also had a clear alternative that they were looking to implement.
Notice all the posters who are closest in age to being in a home are up in arms over this. Just a matter of time before jammies exhibits his outrage.
There is that, but the other thing I find interesting is that solely based on the age of the person, posters seem to be much more willing to help out. Let me try to make sense:
If a guy works at a place called Bob's diner and can't make ends meet or doesn't have a high quality of life there are quite a few posters (I think) who would basically say, life's tough. He continues to work there though and doesn't save money for retirement or at least not tonnes of money. Still most posters here and I think a lot of Albertans would say something like "too fataing bad. Get another job, go back to school, etc."
Now that same guy is living in a home and complains about his meals and something has changed. That same guy is suddenly a victim and the government won't give him proper nutrition, or food that tastes better. Its really a perplexing. I don't even mean it in a bad way or anything, its just such a departure from the usual comments I would've expected around here.
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Notice all the posters who are closest in age to being in a home are up in arms over this. Just a matter of time before jammies exhibits his outrage.
Perhaps its because we're not part of the ME Generation?
Seriously though... the older you get the more you are exposed to situations where you see what goes on in LTC facilities (elderly family members, perhaps you are getting closer (as in years, not decades) to living in one of these facilities). You think about this more and of course it concerns you more.
Its no different than those people in their late teens or twenties getting all bent out of shape on the high cost of post secondary school tuition.
There is that, but the other thing I find interesting is that solely based on the age of the person, posters seem to be much more willing to help out. Let me try to make sense:
If a guy works at a place called Bob's diner and can't make ends meet or doesn't have a high quality of life there are quite a few posters (I think) who would basically say, life's tough. He continues to work there though and doesn't save money for retirement or at least not tonnes of money. Still most posters here and I think a lot of Albertans would say something like "too fataing bad. Get another job, go back to school, etc."
Now that same guy is living in a home and complains about his meals and something has changed. That same guy is suddenly a victim and the government won't give him proper nutrition, or food that tastes better. Its really a perplexing. I don't even mean it in a bad way or anything, its just such a departure from the usual comments I would've expected around here.
I too am surprised... shocked even... particularly when you consider that a lot of these posters that have the "tough s**t" attitude, reside on the left side of the political spectrum. Quite surprising.
I honestly believe you completely made that up out of thin air. Has there ever been one single case in the history of Alberta you could point to where a senior's food was taken away because they complained that it wasn't yummy enough? This isn't a concentration camp we're talking about lol.
You have obviously never been exposed to very many seniors. As people age into their senior years, their fears increase, even though in some cases those fears may be irrational or unfounded.
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Originally Posted by Rerun Perhaps its because we're not part of the ME Generation?
Actually it proves you are part of that generation. Its coming down the pipe for you or your contemporaries so you want to make sure ample funding is in place.
I assure you... it will be many, many years before I end up in an LTC. This is certainly not about me... its about those who don't have the ability to stand up to something thats wrong or are afraid to stand up.
I think the differing attitude lies with the belief that while they are still working it is possible to change their situation while once retired changing your circumstances is no longer an option.
Denying a handout to an able bodied person is seen as a way of encouraging them to help themselves while denying a retiree seems cruel.
I assure you... it will be many, many years before I end up in an LTC. This is certainly not about me... its about those who don't have the ability to stand up to something thats wrong or are afraid to stand up.
... because their pasta doesn't have enough basil?
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I too am surprised... shocked even... particularly when you consider that a lot of these posters that have the "tough s**t" attitude, reside on the left side of the political spectrum. Quite surprising.
Which posters are you referring to here? The posters in this thread who are saying too bad or posters who are normally left leaning who say too bad?
What I was referring to is that there are a lot of posters in this thread who are saying we should make changes who I would've expected to have a more hard line "too freakin' bad" position.
... because their pasta doesn't have enough basil?
No... because that due to current government policy, in some cases, the food is second rate. I suspect that even convicts get fed better meals. Did you know that prisons are not allowed to feed broken crackers to prisoners? The crackers must be completely intact.
I have to ask this... Where is your compassion for the elderly, more vulnerable to abuse, members of our society? When did we become so hard hearted? Why do so many cp members have this attitude? They aren't asking for steak 3 times a week and lobster on Sundays.... just decent quality, fresh food thats tasty, instead of pre-packaged frozen food 7 times a week, 365 days a year.
No... because that due to current government policy, in some cases, the food is second rate. I suspect that even convicts get fed better meals. Did you know that prisons are not allowed to feed broken crackers to prisoners? The crackers must be completely intact.
I have to ask this... Where is your compassion for the elderly, more vulnerable to abuse, members of our society? When did we become so hard hearted? Why do so many cp members have this attitude? They aren't asking for steak 3 times a week and lobster on Sundays.... just decent quality, fresh food thats tasty, instead of pre-packaged frozen food 7 times a week, 365 days a year.
Thats cause this is a welfare system, is it not? (gov't sponsored social programs) The only responsibility of the gov't is to provide enough healthy food to survive, not to provide "tasty" food.
I think I read somewhere that food I had in univ res was worse then what prisoners get, including nutritional value. I would venture a guess that if there a 13 minute documentary on how poorly univ res students are fed, all we'd hear is how entitled kids are these days.
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Last edited by Phanuthier; 06-11-2012 at 01:54 PM.
Which posters are you referring to here? The posters in this thread who are saying too bad or posters who are normally left leaning who say too bad?
What I was referring to is that there are a lot of posters in this thread who are saying we should make changes who I would've expected to have a more hard line "too freakin' bad" position.
Posters who are normally left leaning saying they don't have a problem with the current government policy.
When I think of someone who leans to the left politically I always think of someone who cares a little more for the less fortunate members of our society than perhaps those who lean more to the right. Obviously I am wrong.
Thats cause this is a welfare system, is it not? (gov't sponsored social programs) The only responsibility of the gov't is to provide enough healthy food to survive, not to provide "tasty" food.
I think I read somewhere that food I had in univ res was worse then what prisoners get, including nutritional value. I would venture a guess that if there a 13 minute documentary on how poorly univ res students are fed, all we'd hear is how entitled kids are these days.
You are being ridiculous. I lived in university res (Carleton and SAIT) and the food was just fine. Lots of variety, tasty, nutritional. We even got steak once a week.
There is absolutely no comparison between what you say you experienced and what is being served to seniors in some of these long term care facilities.
I still think society has it backwards. You should be retired till you are, well for the sake of this post we will say 30. You are young and can enjoy your retired time. Then from 30 you work like a mother#####er till you drop dead.
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I have also noticed that the most conservative fiscal conservatives become quite liberal when it is for seniors.
Which has always seemed ridiculous to me. I actually have much more sympathy for someone who is growing up poor than for someone who has had their whole life to work and hasn't saved. (Disabilities, etc aside)
Now, as a society we have an obligation to provide the basic needs for those less fortunate. Food, meds, shelter, all should be (and are, if I understand correctly) provided in a long term care facility. But there has to be a line somewhere. Should we provide every senior with all the filet mignon they can eat and a pony? If not, then you're just debating where to draw the line.
I think providing nutritious food that meets basic needs, but is a bit bland is a reasonable place to draw that line.
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You are being ridiculous. I lived in university res (Carleton and SAIT) and the food was just fine. Lots of variety, tasty, nutritional. We even got steak once a week.
There is absolutely no comparison between what you say you experienced and what is being served to seniors in some of these long term care facilities.
What year were you in res? Because to me that feels like it might be a case of the baby boomers being so numerous that every gov't service becomes gold plated when they're using it, then gutted after. (To score political points with the most populous demographic)
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Which has always seemed ridiculous to me. I actually have much more sympathy for someone who is growing up poor than for someone who has had their whole life to work and hasn't saved. (Disabilities, etc aside)
Now, as a society we have an obligation to provide the basic needs for those less fortunate. Food, meds, shelter, all should be (and are, if I understand correctly) provided in a long term care facility. But there has to be a line somewhere. Should we provide every senior with all the filet mignon they can eat and a pony? If not, then you're just debating where to draw the line.
I think providing nutritious food that meets basic needs, but is a bit bland is a reasonable place to draw that line.
Just curious... how old are you? I'm not trying to be a dick... just want to see where you're coming from. People's thoughts and ideas and convictions change over time as they get older.
Also... nobody is asking for filet mignon and a pony. They just want a decent variety of freshly made tasty and nutritional food. Not some pre-packaged frozen crap that nobody but college students who are too lazy to cook are willing to eat.
