Psycho Murdering Medicine Hat Girl attending Mount Royal U right now

[MelBridgeman]

A friend of a friend had contact with her, was suggest she still has issues...

[corporatejay]

Originally Posted by MelBridgeman

A friend of a friend had contact with her, was suggest she still has issues...

Oh, so she's not totally rehabbed from killing her entire family? Who would have thought.

I mean if she didn't have "issues" that's when I would suspect she was insane.

[MrMastodonFarm]

And a friend of a friend. It doesn't get more reliable.

[MelBridgeman]

Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm

And a friend of a friend. It doesn't get more reliable.

It's not which is why i haven't said much more

[FireGilbert]

I remember this case and was very disturbed by it at the time. That said, she has done her time as per the laws of Canada so should be allowed to try and be a contributing member of society.

Also, how does someone like this handle dating? Do you bring it up on the first date, the third date, or wait til things get serious? It is obviously a bit of a deal breaker.

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

No murder should ever be wiped from anybody's record. Period.

Originally Posted by bigtmac19

So hard for me to accept the comment that she is not truly evil. I don't know how much worse that crime could be. Still makes me sick to think about that poor little boy.

My only knowledge is the story linked to above, but if that summarizes the story correctly, she encouraged her adult boyfriend, but there's no evidence that she actively participated in killing them. I don't think it takes an irredeemably evil person to wish their family dead when they're 12. Take someone with a not-uncommon behavioural disorder, expose them to a goth culture, violent media, and an adult love interest, and it's not hard for me to believe they'll feel like they're being stifled by their family (what teenager doesn't feel like that to some degree) and will start fantasizing about how great their life would be if their family were out of the way. It's having a murderous adult psychopath who will carry out the act as the audience that leads to the real danger.

If she did her time, grew up, got extensive therapy, and the opinions of her supervisors are that she's safe to rejoin society, then I think that's a win for our justice system and something that should be (to some degree) celebrated.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

If she's out on the street, its better shes in university trying to rehabilitate than on the street in gangs or doing drugs. Just my opinion.

yeah that never happens in uni

[Reaper]

Originally Posted by dino7c

yeah that never happens in uni

The last bastion of abstinence and temperance.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

I remember this case and was very disturbed by it at the time. That said, she has done her time as per the laws of Canada so should be allowed to try and be a contributing member of society.

Also, how does someone like this handle dating? Do you bring it up on the first date, the third date, or wait til things get serious? It is obviously a bit of a deal breaker.

Some guys are into that. Get to bang the hot chick who murdered her family? Some guys consider that a conquest. Like how some girls love dating gang-bangers and other bad-boys who have a history of violent behavior.

In fact, I have no doubt that once her identity was revealed to people who had contact with her (very easy to find her name through Google) that a bunch of guys made it their mandate to hook up with her. Some guy married Karla Homolka and had kids with her. What guy in his right mind would do that?

I personally don't agree with letting her go. Psychopath's hide in plain site and they are experts at manipulating their surroundings and the people they come into contact with. It's not unrealistic that she could have fooled the doctor's and counselors treating her to get them to think she was rehabilitated. Then again, maybe she genuinely is rehabilitated. Who knows.

But if she ever does something horrible like that again, the people who were involved in letting her out should be held responsible.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by Mike F

My only knowledge is the story linked to above, but if that summarizes the story correctly, she encouraged her adult boyfriend, but there's no evidence that she actively participated in killing them. I don't think it takes an irredeemably evil person to wish their family dead when they're 12. Take someone with a not-uncommon behavioural disorder, expose them to a goth culture, violent media, and an adult love interest, and it's not hard for me to believe they'll feel like they're being stifled by their family (what teenager doesn't feel like that to some degree) and will start fantasizing about how great their life would be if their family were out of the way. It's having a murderous adult psychopath who will carry out the act as the audience that leads to the real danger.

If she did her time, grew up, got extensive therapy, and the opinions of her supervisors are that she's safe to rejoin society, then I think that's a win for our justice system and something that should be (to some degree) celebrated.

I'm also not a psychologist. However, there is a reason we don't let 12 year olds vote, drink alcohol, drive, or generally make life changing decisions. They are 12.

It's hypocritical to hold someone we consider a child to the moral standard of an adult while simultaneously not giving them the accompanying responsibility. Children that young are capable of understanding right from wrong, but not entirely capable of understanding the long term implications of their choices.

It should also be noted that this girl did not get off with a slap on the wrist. She was in full custody until 18. That means her entire junior and senior high school experience was jail. She has more freedom now. But that's after a decade of being closely monitored.

I also don't buy the argument that the 23 year old boyfriend was so dimwitted he was incapable of resisting manipulation from a 12 year old. Yes, he was weird and said weird things. He, however, isn't an invalid. He was considered fit to stand trial.

[CaptainYooh]

I do understand the humanitarian logic of holding children and teenagers to different criminal responsibility standards than adults in a civilized democratic society. However; I don't believe that the justice system, no matter how good and lenient, would ever be able to rehabilitate a person that murdered a family member. Now, add "murdered her little brother". Do you honestly see this person recovering enough to live a normal life, have a family? "OK, sweetheart, be nice to your sister, let's all sit down and Mommy will tell you a little bed-time story about what happened to Mommy when she was 12..."

So, the question of should they stay locked-up and be supervised/monitored for life is not an unfair one. Difficult to answer correctly, but not unfair.

[Oling_Roachinen]

I may not agree with, but I can certainly understand the argument about locking up a person for life who committed a heinous crime like this regardless of circumstances. If someone were to argue that a person who takes a life should rot in prison for the rest of their life, I can see their point of view.

What I fail to understand is the argument about whether or not she is rehabilitated, likely to re-commit, or has the ability to live a 'normal' life.

Normally we're pretty happy with deferring to experts, medical doctors, engineers, lawyers, what-have-you. Those that disagree with the experts with no real expertise, facts or basis are normally chastised. Until we get to situations like this and Vince Li and other high-profile criminal cases with extenuating circumstances, then it seems like it's a lot more "fair-game" to contradict the experts.

She was released from a psychiatric hospital after four and a half years to start her integration back into society because she was assessed to be ready. She has continuously been assessed as a low risk to reoffend (with new reports coming every six months until recently). For years she's been transitioning, from a group home, to living alone with curfew, to getting weekends off, to having her curfew removed completely. Each step has been successful according to the reports. When caseworkers disagreed that she was ready for the full removal of her curfew she was not granted it by the judge, she had to wait until her next scheduled assessment. She's now reaching the end of her max sentence. What do you want to do with her?

[Locke]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I may not agree with, but I can certainly understand the argument about locking up a person for life who committed a heinous crime like this regardless of circumstances. If someone were to argue that a person who takes a life should rot in prison for the rest of their life, I can see their point of view.

What I fail to understand is the argument about whether or not she is rehabilitated, likely to re-commit, or has the ability to live a 'normal' life.

Normally we're pretty happy with deferring to experts, medical doctors, engineers, lawyers, what-have-you. Those that disagree with the experts with no real expertise, facts or basis are normally chastised. Until we get to situations like this and Vince Li and other high-profile criminal cases with extenuating circumstances, then it seems like it's a lot more "fair-game" to contradict the experts.

She was released from a psychiatric hospital after four and a half years to start her integration back into society because she was assessed to be ready. She has continuously been assessed as a low risk to reoffend (with new reports coming every six months until recently). For years she's been transitioning, from a group home, to living alone with curfew, to getting weekends off, to having her curfew removed completely. Each step has been successful according to the reports. When caseworkers disagreed that she was ready for the full removal of her curfew she was not granted it by the judge, she had to wait until her next scheduled assessment. She's now reaching the end of her max sentence. What do you want to do with her?

Baffin Island Polar Bear Reserve and Half-Way Home?

[snootchiebootchies]

Originally Posted by Oling_Roachinen

I may not agree with, but I can certainly understand the argument about locking up a person for life who committed a heinous crime like this regardless of circumstances. If someone were to argue that a person who takes a life should rot in prison for the rest of their life, I can see their point of view.

What I fail to understand is the argument about whether or not she is rehabilitated, likely to re-commit, or has the ability to live a 'normal' life.

I followed this story pretty closely back when it occurred, and have found myself over the years trying to find updates on JR. Yes, I too understand the desire to lock her up and throw away the key since she is not your child. But I think that if she was my child, I would desperately want to believe (even if from the grave) that she is truly rehabilitated and given an opportunity to live a life of worth.

[Locke]

Originally Posted by snootchiebootchies

I followed this story pretty closely back when it occurred, and have found myself over the years trying to find updates on JR. Yes, I too understand the desire to lock her up and throw away the key since she is not your child. But I think that if she was my child, I would desperately want to believe (even if from the grave) that she is truly rehabilitated and given an opportunity to live a life of worth.

If she was your child.....she'd have killed you.

[GGG]

I look at the thread title and the first few posts and think that CP has come quite a ways in the last 5 years.

[Swift]

I just saw on the news the other day that Homolka's new identity was discovered by residents wherever she is and that parents are now worried etc etc and it made me think of this girl, so it's interesting that the thread was resurrected.

Essentially I was wondering how one would react to find that this girl is actually a colleague or one of your acquaintances or even your girlfriend? Not sure how one would deal with that. I mean, in all likelihood, someone on this board knows her personally but has no idea about her past.

[VladtheImpaler]

As a believer in "evil", I would run. I do not believe she can be "cured". I am sure she is better at "keeping it on an even keel", but I would not want to cross her.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

I do understand the humanitarian logic of holding children and teenagers to different criminal responsibility standards than adults in a civilized democratic society. However; I don't believe that the justice system, no matter how good and lenient, would ever be able to rehabilitate a person that murdered a family member. Now, add "murdered her little brother". Do you honestly see this person recovering enough to live a normal life, have a family? "OK, sweetheart, be nice to your sister, let's all sit down and Mommy will tell you a little bed-time story about what happened to Mommy when she was 12..."

So, the question of should they stay locked-up and be supervised/monitored for life is not an unfair one. Difficult to answer correctly, but not unfair.

A "normal" life? No. A life though, yes.

[Itse]

This whole thread is just an example of how scary and bizarre the American morality is sometimes. And just alien, like, I can't even...

It's seriously this common for people here to think that hey maybe it makes sense to hold a 12-year old responsible for something like this?

I guess I do have a couple of points to add too.

1) They have succesfully rehabilitated child soldiers from the Sierra Leone and Uganda. In comparison I'm pretty sure this girl is an easy case.

2) After WW2 the vast majority of Nazis went on to live relatively uneventful lives. Because fun fact: perfectly normal people can murder others in the right circumstances, and then when those circumstances change, people will generally just stop doing that murdering thing.

I know it's nice to think that people do terrible things because they're evil and somehow fundamentally different kinds of people than you and your friends and family, and that "normal" kids could never do that. Comforting, but not actually true.