[PGT] Chicago 5 - Calgary 3

[drewtastic]

I was at the game last night.

As a fan of this team since I was, like, seven (mid-80s anyway), I’ve come to expect disappointment, frustration, underachievement, or some combination of all of these things, especially for the larger part of the last three decades.

But last night was the first time I’d ever experienced legitimate anger.

From a personal perspective, my holiday season this year has been pretty awesome: lots of time with family and friends, great celebrations. New Year’s Day itself was also super-rad, and I couldn’t wait to go pick up my Dad and get to the Dome early.

Yesterday was only our second game of the season. The last several years, we’ve significantly reduced our share of OUR OWN season tickets due to cost/time commitment/team performance, but the New Year’s game has been a fifteen year plus tradition for us. (It’s also the only time I ever buy a beer at the game, to celebrate the New Year with my Dad.)

I’d actively rejected other New Year’s offers in anticipation of last night, given the annual meaning of the game, and the fact that the Dome is regularly rocking on that night. On that front, the fans more than held their own, as the place even went nuts at the introduction of George Canyon as the anthem singer. Indeed, the fans were amazing all night.

The first shift by the fourth line was also pretty decent, some energy and a pretty clear attempt to set the tempo.

After that, well...

The Flames were down by two before the ten minute mark of the first period. And the next several minutes of play featured offside after offside, pucks out of play, and general boredom. The Flames themselves simply refused to get the puck deep to cycle, so they averaged less than 10 seconds of offensive zone time for multiple shifts in a row. Buzzkill City.

Beyond that, the team had many stretches where they looked like they didn’t even have the slightest understanding of even the most basic defensive positioning; Stone/Kylington especially on D and the “guys-who-have-all-at-one-time-played-centre-so-you’d-think-they’d-have-some-degree-of-DZone-awareness” trio of Bennett/Monahan/Backlund was also frustratingly atrocious. The team deserved every inch of the loss, despite deciding to try when it was already too late.

Now, it’s not the loss itself, or the general pattern of losing lately that upsets me-I’m used to all that stuff as a Flames fan. What upset me last night was that, on a night when you KNOW the place is anticipating a fun time, when the fans are ALWAYS in good spirits, the majority of the players couldn’t get themselves prepared to play from the start.

I’ve always loved role players because they tend to be the lunch pail brigade that do the heavy lifting (Joel Otto is my all time fave; my current is Derek Ryan). But when your most engaged players are routinely the like of Ryan, Lucic, Rieder, or even Frolik (who I thought had a good game last night), your team will struggle. Certainly, those guys will have to be your BEST players in some games throughout a season, as sustainable winning requires depth. But they cannot be the ONLY guys willing to be engaged every night. Right now, they are.

Selfishly, I resented the team’s lethargy because I chose to attend the game at the expense of other events. That’s a self-pout that is more me venting than anything. But it’s definitely affecting my (already diminishing) interest in the team and my attendance going forward.

From the on-ice stand point, I have no idea as to what this team’s identity is. Beyond the “slow start”, “been through a lot”, “youth”, “still learning how to win”, “crawl, walk, run, sprint”, “still in a good spot in a weak division”, arguments, last night’s game revealed this teams’ inability to perform even the most basic tasks (like in-zone defensive awareness) consistently from game to game. It revealed the skilled players’ refusal to do the little things right (like chip and chase, where required). It revealed the old adage that hard work pays off, as Chicago’s early effort demonstrated, and like the Flames’ final five minutes demonstrated.

But commitment to basic fundamentals is, IMO, each individual player’s responsibility. I don’t know how any coach (four, in the past 6 years, as if I needed to remind anyone here) GM, owner or any other non-player in this organization can bear any blame for players not being ready to play, or for players not recognizing basic positioning on the ice, or for players making lazy back-checks. This stuff happens far too often with the top players on this team.

And especially on a night like last night, where the fan base was absolutely jacked and behind the team all night, it suggests to me that either some of these players CAN’T or simply WON’T push themselves into that next-level emotional space, when the situation calls for it.

I realize that I’m moving into old-man-yelling-at-cloud territory, but in some ways, I suppose the 80’s rivalry with the oilers has spoiled me and my attitude. In those particular games, it just seemed like every player on each team was determined to leave everything they had out on the ice, no matter what. Their emotional commitment levels caused us fans also to be hyper-emotionally invested...sometimes to the point of exhaustion! And these weren’t even playoff games! And it was all awesome!

From that perspective, I don’t understand how the core of this team cannot, altogether, capture, internalize and demonstrate at least a “next-gear” level of emotion, almost ever. I think it is this observation that most angered me last night. Maybe they just aren’t capable of it. Whatever the case, it’s turning me into a fair-weather fan, something I’d never have dreamed of saying even ten years ago.

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by timbit

You have made some valid arguments re the construction of the Flames.

The bolded part is a flat out unsubstantiated embellishment.

Secondly, Tkachuk is a big production, character and leadership piece. He will be highly valued and paid market value by the Flames after this contract, should he continue to ameliorate.

The contract he's currently on is structured in such a way as to give him the most flexibility possible under the CBA for choosing the destination of his next contract.

I have no doubt that the Flames will be right there willing to offer him a substantial amount of money, but they will have to have more to offer than just money, as he will have more than just the Flames as suitors.

I don't need to know Tkachuk personally to see how he and his camp have positioned himself for the end of his contract: it's not just about money, it's about flexibility to choose his destination.

The league is littered with examples of players doing just that over the last several years.

I don't think it's embellishment at all when long tenured players have consistently illustrated that the last several offseasons.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The contract he's currently on is structured in such a way as to give him the most flexibility possible under the CBA for choosing the destination of his next contract.

I have no doubt that the Flames will be right there willing to offer him a substantial amount of money, but they will have to have more to offer than just money, as he will have more than just the Flames as suitors.

I don't need to know Tkachuk personally to see how he and his camp have positioned himself for the end of his contract: it's not just about money, it's about flexibility to choose his destination.

The league is littered with examples of players doing just that over the last several years.

I don't think it's embellishment at all when long tenured players have consistently illustrated that the last several offseasons.

Well. Like. That's just your opinion, man.

And that's all it is. Not wrong and not right.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

The contract he's currently on is structured in such a way as to give him the most flexibility possible under the CBA for choosing the destination of his next contract.



I have no doubt that the Flames will be right there willing to offer him a substantial amount of money, but they will have to have more to offer than just money, as he will have more than just the Flames as suitors.



.

Tkachuk is a RFA at the end of his contract.

The most flexibility possible for him would have him be a UFA.

At the end of the day, the Flames still hold all the cards as to where he will play once that contract is over, as they can always choose to match an offer sheet.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by dammage79

Well. Like. That's just your opinion, man.

And that's all it is. Not wrong and not right.

Some people's opinions turn out to be more correct more often than others.

I suppose individuals like yourself can decide what opinions they value more, but I'm pretty comfortable with my track record on this message board.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Tkachuk is a RFA at the end of his contract.

The most flexibility possible for him would have him be a UFA.

At the end of the day, the Flames still hold all the cards as to where he will play once that contract is over, as they can always choose to match an offer sheet.


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I’m pretty sure if they cant come to agreement Tkachuk is eligible if he chooses to go to arbitration he can take a one year binding arbitrated contract and go straight to UFA.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

I agree with some of the sentiment above, but the flames haven't had an 'ideal' roster since the 80s.

Even last year they had significant holes in the lineup that were badly exposed in the playoffs. They did nothing to address them at all during the off-season, and age related decline has made those holes even worse.

A significant portion of this board wants to fool themselves every year into thinking the on paper roster is any better than 10th-15th in the league. Either they are wrong basically every year, or the flames are the single unluckiest franchise in league history.

I know what's likelier.

It's rebuild time again, folks.

Well that was cheery

I don't like this core either, and I do think big changes are needed. But no team with Tkachuk, Mangipaane, Lindholm, Andersson, Valimaki etc needs to rebuild.

It's retool and reshape time though.

[dammage79]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Some people's opinions turn out to be more correct more often than others.

I suppose individuals like yourself can decide what opinions they value more, but I'm pretty comfortable with my track record on this message board.

Meh. We all have our moments in the sun called "being right". You also have a track record of being a bad winner and a bad loser. So easy on self inflating.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Tampa, who have 2 conference final and a cup final appearance in the last 6 years.

Posters on this board like to pretend that the flames getting blown out by the avs isnt a big deal because tampa got blown out by Columbus, but the situations couldn't be more different.

Who are "Posters on this board" that you keep referring to? Pretend?

Can't you simply have a differing opinion without grouping and talking down to others?

[Yoho]

Watching World Juniors really shows the talent some teams (not including Flames) have coming up in the near future.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Some people's opinions turn out to be more correct more often than others.

I suppose individuals like yourself can decide what opinions they value more, but I'm pretty comfortable with my track record on this message board.

Do you have us all in a spreadsheet so I can see how I'm doing?

[Flash Walken]

Stripping the team down to Tkachuk, Mangiapane (lol, what?), Lindholm, Andersson and Valimaki is basically a rebuild, man.

You're talking about not having any of the current top 4 d and half of the top 6...

That's what I mean by saying look at the blues. Put those players i listed above compared to the Flames and tell me that trading monahan, backlund, Giordano, rittich and gaudreau in a 2-3 year period isn't a rebuild... That's essentially a tear down of the entire core group and the attrition loss of most of the supporting players.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Yoho

I’m pretty sure if they cant come to agreement Tkachuk is eligible if he chooses to go to arbitration he can take a one year binding arbitrated contract and go straight to UFA.

My comment was really about his statement that Tkachuk has placed himself in the best possible situation at the end of his contract with regards to flexibility. A contract ending with him being a UFA would have been better for him, although that likely would never have happened.


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[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Stripping the team down to Tkachuk, Mangiapane (lol, what?), Lindholm, Andersson and Valimaki is basically a rebuild, man.

You're talking about not having any of the current top 4 d and half of the top 6...

That's what I mean by saying look at the blues. Put those players i listed above compared to the Flames and tell me that trading monahan, backlund, Giordano, rittich and gaudreau in a 2-3 year period isn't a rebuild... That's essentially a tear down of the entire core group and the attrition loss of most of the supporting players.

I picked young players as an example. I didn't say every other player had to go.

Young teams with young pieces don't have to rebuid, they retool. Since your record on this message board is excellent, can you pull out some St. Louis Blues are the model franchise quotes from a year ago and older for us?

[zamler]

Scale of 1 to 10 what are the chances this core wins a Cup.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by zamler

Scale of 1 to 10 what are the chances this core wins a Cup.

I think there are a lot of luck/bounces in winning a cup so every team's core would be pretty low.

But out of teams that should be playoff teams I put this team's core pretty low.

[Enoch Root]

Rebuild talk is off the mark, IMO. Just knee-jerk reactions to a frustrating season.

The Flames have several valuable assets in the 21 -26 year age group. You don't tear that apart, you determine which pieces are the keepers to build around, and you keep adding to it.

Rebuilding again, because it didn't all come together on the first try, is how you remain in perpetual rebuild. Canadian fans are way, way too impatient.

[Erick Estrada]

Flames are really going to have to maximize the return on Gaudreau. Trelving can't mess this one up by trying bring back a "win-now" piece in return. It's going to have to be for a top flight younger prospect at minimum as this team's prospect base is miserable looking at the moment and badly needs an infusion of cost controlled talent. Easier said than done but it's his job to make it work and I hope to hell if this team has not figured it out by the deadline that he's selling off players like Frolik and Hamonic for maximum returns.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Flames are really going to have to maximize the return on Gaudreau. Trelving can't mess this one up by trying bring back a "win-now" piece in return. It's going to have to be for a top flight younger prospect at minimum as this team's prospect base is miserable looking at the moment and badly needs an infusion of cost controlled talent. Easier said than done but it's his job to make it work and I hope to hell if this team has not figured it out by the deadline that he's selling off players like Frolik and Hamonic for maximum returns.

I hope they know what's wrong with Gaudreau.

I don't need to ever know, it's his life, but I hope they've gotten to the bottom of it, and have a good assessment of whether it can be rectified in this city or not.

But agreed. Given the randomness of teams going up and down every year I don't think teams should be built for windows as much as retooled over and over again to keep assets moving forward.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Well that was cheery

I don't like this core either, and I do think big changes are needed. But no team with Tkachuk, Mangipaane, Lindholm, Andersson, Valimaki etc needs to rebuild.

It's retool and reshape time though.

If that is your core and group of best players are you really any better than any other team?

Maybe it’s semantics (retool vs rebuild) but IMO that group of players isn’t enough to carry a team.

Trading Gaudreau or Monahan will require some kind of sacrifice. You might be able to acquire a better player, but their contract won’t be as favorable and they will be older. You could trade for a high end prospect, but will require patience. Or you could trade for a trove of draft picks but even more patience will be required.

As Flames fans, we look at the Iginla/Nieuwendyk and Brett Hull/Ramage & Wamsley trades as situations where the team giving up the veterans did well for themselves. But those trades are unicorns IMO and I’m just not sure it’s reasonable to expect that high end a prospect in return.

I think you have to look at Gio and Backlund too. If you can find guys like like Ryan on the UFA market, trading Backlund wouldn’t hurt that much.

So my point is, which I’m not making very clearly, is if those guys are your core I think you’re looking at something like a rebuild which will require picks and or prospects to pan out as hoped in order to be competing for championships.