The Flames need to recall Matthew Phillips

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Sorry, this has nothing to do with your post.

However, you mentioned Conroy.. isn't it weird that Conroy is now technically one of Darryl Sutter's bosses? Weird.

Technically, perhaps yes.

In reality, Sutter answers only to the Murray Edwards.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Yrebmi]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

Yeah but Gaudreau plays like a little man. Phillips is smaller but he actually plays gritty. He drives to the net and doesn't shy from physicality like Gaudreau does.

Does that work to Philips NHL favor though?
Maybe Gaudreau can play in the NHL precisely because he does avoid contact and punishing hits from NHL sized players.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

Yeah but Gaudreau plays like a little man. Phillips is smaller but he actually plays gritty. He drives to the net and doesn't shy from physicality like Gaudreau does.

Dont disagree, but here is just a reality.

Every time Phillips would take the ice in an NHL game, he is giving up at least 40 lbs on average to every other player on the ice. Every shift. Every hit. Every puck battle.

I just dont see someone that small surviving the rigors of the game. And its not that he is smaller...he is freakin tiny. Im hoping he has bulked up a bunch from when the Flames posted his weight on their website. Even if he can get to 160 lbs, it would at least give him a chance. At 140 there is just no way though. Zdeno Charas right leg weighs that much.

I mean....sure...give him a shot, but im really curious where you play him that he wont get wallpapered. He is only going to help in a top 6 role. Certainly cant play him with 13 & 23. I guess with 28 & 19 but that means Mangipane gets bumped.

I dont know. RW has been a giant hole on this club for longer than MP has been in Stockton and not once has he been given a look on the big squad. Has to be a reason for that, and its not because he hasnt produced. I think BT knows there really just isnt a fit for him at this point so he is heaps better off honing his skills in the A.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by genetic_phreek

Yeah but Gaudreau plays like a little man. Phillips is smaller but he actually plays gritty. He drives to the net and doesn't shy from physicality like Gaudreau does.

And Phillips would get killed trying to play that against NHL level players. Some of you really need to understand just how massive a leap it is from the AHL to the NHL. The players in the NHL are just so much faster, so much smarter, so much BIGGER, and so much tougher. The things Phillips thinks he can do at the AHL level, like playing in traffic, would be so much harder for him in the NHL. The game is quicker, the gaps are non-existent, and the space closes like vice. Phillips trying to play in traffic would see him get hurt so quickly.

Understand, that even if Phillips is the best player on his team, or even the best player in his league (which he is not) he is stepping into a league where the best players from the best leagues around the globe have come together to play. He goes from being one of the top players to barely being on radar. The jump between leagues is not easy and for a player that is so physically limited, that jump is almost an impossibility. You can trot out the tired "he was told he couldn't play at this level, but he succeeded..." but the reality is that making the jump to the best league in the world is such a massive leap that most players never succeed, regardless of talent level. Without the perfect blend of skill, smarts, and size, it is unlikely a player is going to reach that penultimate plateau and achieve any level of success.

[SuperMatt18]

The NHL is no bigger of a league than the AHL. Faster and smarter for sure, but I doubt it’s actually bigger.

It’s a guess on my part but I’d bet that there are actually more 6’2” plus ogres in the AHL than are in the NHL.

The problem is that the GMs in the league still have the mindset that you need to be big, and Sure Treliving is probably looking and going “We can’t call up Phillips because we already have a couple small forwards in Johnny, Mangiapane, and Doc”. That’s a horrible mindset IMO, play your best players regardless of size.

I also don’t agree that Phillips needs to be in a top 6 role either. In 18-19 we had a lot of success with Hathaway-Ryan-Mangiapane in a 4th line role. If Mangiapane can play a 4th line role why can’t Phillips?

Plus Calling him up doesn’t mean you have to keep him up, give him 2-3 games and if it doesn’t work then you send him back down. Cant be worse than what Froese, Rinaldo, Robinson, Ritchie etc have brought this season.

And this is the part that I don’t get with the arguments against Phillips. It’s not like he has to stay up all season, IMO there is no argument against giving the guy a shot for a couple games to see what’s there. He’s earned it.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Matthew Phillips was too small to play AAA.
Matthew Phillips was too small to play in the WHL
Matthew Phillips was too small to make an impact in the AHL

That's not the kind of player I write off without a look see.

Having said that sometimes you only have one shot at this. And if you move too quickly you stunt the growth because the player and organization see the player isn't ready.

But I wouldn't write him off.

That’s the storyline for every player who is successful in the AHL and not the NHL, just insert a different quality other than size. Excel at every level until they got to the bigs. I’m certainly not saying don’t give him a shot, but this is literally the tag line of every drafted player in every sport. Excelled at every level.

I agree, not right to write him off until he has had a shot in the NHL. But he’s most certainly not the right answer to the Gaudreau-Monahan line.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The NHL is no bigger of a league than the AHL. Faster and smarter for sure, but I doubt it’s actually bigger.

It’s a guess on my part but I’d bet that there are actually more 6’2” plus ogres in the AHL than are in the NHL.

The problem is that the GMs in the league still have the mindset that you need to be big, and Sure Treliving is probably looking and going “We can’t call up Phillips because we already have a couple small forwards in Johnny, Mangiapane, and Doc”. That’s a horrible mindset IMO, play your best players regardless of size.

I also don’t agree that Phillips needs to be in a top 6 role either. In 18-19 we had a lot of success with Hathaway-Ryan-Mangiapane in a 4th line role. If Mangiapane can play a 4th line role why can’t Phillips?

Plus Calling him up doesn’t mean you have to keep him up, give him 2-3 games and if it doesn’t work then you send him back down. Cant be worse than what Froese, Rinaldo, Robinson, Ritchie etc have brought this season.

And this is the part that I don’t get with the arguments against Phillips. It’s not like he has to stay up all season, IMO there is no argument against giving the guy a shot for a couple games to see what’s there. He’s earned it.

Mangi is 45 lbs heavier than Phillips.

[GioforPM]

I’m all for giving Phillips, or even Ruzicka a shot. But the expectations of some seem a little high. People said the same about Jankowski - “he’s destroying the AHL”. Graduation is hit and miss - Janko, Mangiapane and Klimchuk had similar AHL numbers one year. Mangiapane made it (on a gradual basis).

[868904]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

That’s the storyline for every player who is successful in the AHL and not the NHL, just insert a different quality other than size. Excel at every level until they got to the bigs. I’m certainly not saying don’t give him a shot, but this is literally the tag line of every drafted player in every sport. Excelled at every level.

I agree, not right to write him off until he has had a shot in the NHL. But he’s most certainly not the right answer to the Gaudreau-Monahan line.

How can you be so sure though? Hudler was a small skilled player and worked well with Gaudreau and Monahan.

You never know until you give it a try and what does it hurt to try?

From listening and reading Flames management, the reason they are taking their slow development time with Phillips is because he is small and they do want his body to fully and physically mature as much as possible before bringing him into the NHL. I don't think it's a case where they don't believe he can play or survive in the NHL.

The guys who watch the AHL regularly can probably comment on this, but I'm sure Phillips is targeted and has taken big hits in the AHL too. It's not like there's a "no hit the small players rule" there. He seems to be surviving that league from a physical standpoint.

My biggest concern with Phillips is not so much his size, it's more his speed. He didn't seem particularly fast when I watched him in junior and in training camp, but maybe he's improved that aspect now. It doesn't matter what size you are, if you can't separate or evade a backchecker, you won't accomplish much in the NHL.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Dont disagree, but here is just a reality.

Every time Phillips would take the ice in an NHL game, he is giving up at least 40 lbs on average to every other player on the ice. Every shift. Every hit. Every puck battle.

I just dont see someone that small surviving the rigors of the game. And its not that he is smaller...he is freakin tiny. Im hoping he has bulked up a bunch from when the Flames posted his weight on their website. Even if he can get to 160 lbs, it would at least give him a chance. At 140 there is just no way though. Zdeno Charas right leg weighs that much.

I mean....sure...give him a shot, but im really curious where you play him that he wont get wallpapered. He is only going to help in a top 6 role. Certainly cant play him with 13 & 23. I guess with 28 & 19 but that means Mangipane gets bumped.

I dont know. RW has been a giant hole on this club for longer than MP has been in Stockton and not once has he been given a look on the big squad. Has to be a reason for that, and its not because he hasnt produced. I think BT knows there really just isnt a fit for him at this point so he is heaps better off honing his skills in the A.

I'm not sure the AHL is any smaller on average than the NHL and it's certainly meaner. Yes, size matters. But a bigger NHLer gets hurt far more often than smaller ones even in the "tough areas". He'll be fine

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by 868904

How can you be so sure though? Hudler was a small skilled player and worked well with Gaudreau and Monahan.

You never know until you give it a try and what does it hurt to try?

From listening and reading Flames management, the reason they are taking their slow development time with Phillips is because he is small and they do want his body to fully and physically mature as much as possible before bringing him into the NHL. I don't think it's a case where they don't believe he can play or survive in the NHL.

The guys who watch the AHL regularly can probably comment on this, but I'm sure Phillips is targeted and has taken big hits in the AHL too. It's not like there's a "no hit the small players rule" there. He seems to be surviving that league from a physical standpoint.

My biggest concern with Phillips is not so much his size, it's more his speed. He didn't seem particularly fast when I watched him in junior and in training camp, but maybe he's improved that aspect now. It doesn't matter what size you are, if you can't separate or evade a backchecker, you won't accomplish much in the NHL.

Hudler was pretty heavy for his height at 190 (he was 5’10”). 50 pounds heavier than Phillips. A lot of the shorter players who survive are fireplugs. Fleury was 5’6” and 180 pounds. For context, Kylington weighs 183, and is 6 feet tall.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Heavy Jack

I think it would be super cool Scorp if you could find a way to connect with Conroy on the subject of Matty Phillips. I remember reading a couple of articles about Conny and Phillips and he loved going to check in on the guy from what I remember and it could spin up some excitement around the prospect of calling him up for a look. Phillips also isn’t shy from hard nosed areas like behind the net or in the crease, he drives those areas and has his entire career in the dub and AHL. He might be a great player to call up because if he plays the game hard and the right way like Darryl preaches he can be an excellent example for the pros and really energize the core players to be better. No excuses.

Call him up please.

Are you under the impression that the Flames are not paying attention to what is happening on the farm team?

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Winsor_Pilates]

Is he actually only 140 lbs?
I've never ever heard of a hockey player being that small.

[Savvy27]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Is he actually only 140 lbs?
I've never ever heard of a hockey player being that small.

He's 155 lbs according to this: https://stocktonheat.com/news/what-i...rking-towards/

[Heavy Jack]

Not at all?? Just genuinely curious what Conroys current thoughts on Phillips would be and with Scorp being so close to the farm team maybe he could get that conversation with Conny. I think there most likely is a general buzz going on about Phillips in the organization because it’s not that he’s just putting up points but he’s making big plays at important moments in games. Imo it’s a matter of time before we see him get a look despite all the posters who have concerns about his size.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by transplant99

I just dont see someone that small surviving the rigors of the game. And its not that he is smaller...he is freakin tiny. Im hoping he has bulked up a bunch from when the Flames posted his weight on their website. Even if he can get to 160 lbs, it would at least give him a chance. At 140 there is just no way though. Zdeno Charas right leg weighs that much...

Just FYI, Phillips is listed on the AHL site at 155 lbs.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Winsor_Pilates

Is he actually only 140 lbs?
I've never ever heard of a hockey player being that small.

Maybe in Atom. Or Pee Wee

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by New Era

And Phillips would get killed trying to play that against NHL level players. Some of you really need to understand just how massive a leap it is from the AHL to the NHL. The players in the NHL are just so much faster, so much smarter, so much BIGGER, and so much tougher. The things Phillips thinks he can do at the AHL level, like playing in traffic, would be so much harder for him in the NHL. The game is quicker, the gaps are non-existent, and the space closes like vice. Phillips trying to play in traffic would see him get hurt so quickly.

Phillips "thinks" he can do these things because he actually does them.

...even if Phillips is the best player on his team, or even the best player in his league (which he is not) he is stepping into a league where the best players from the best leagues around the globe have come together to play. He goes from being one of the top players to barely being on radar. The jump between leagues is not easy and for a player that is so physically limited, that jump is almost an impossibility. You can trot out the tired "he was told he couldn't play at this level, but he succeeded..." but the reality is that making the jump to the best league in the world is such a massive leap that most players never succeed, regardless of talent level. Without the perfect blend of skill, smarts, and size, it is unlikely a player is going to reach that penultimate plateau and achieve any level of success.

You speak condescendingly as if you know better than every one else here about such things. Do you think that Phillips himself is not keenly aware of the gap between the AHL and the NHL? Do you somehow believe that he imdoes not know exactly what it takes to get there, and how hard it will be to stick?


Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Mangi is 45 lbs heavier than Phillips.

29 lbs, actually.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Street Pharmacist

I'm not sure the AHL is any smaller on average than the NHL and it's certainly meaner. Yes, size matters. But a bigger NHLer gets hurt far more often than smaller ones even in the "tough areas". He'll be fine

How do you possibly quantify that statement?


There is a reason he isn't with the big club...what is it?

I mean I hope the guy can do what he's been doing in the A at the next level...hell...i hope he does even more. Certainly don't expect it though.