Black teen shot and killed by neighborhood watch in Orlando gated community

[tjinaz]

Don't you think the DOJ would have charged him by now?

But good edit though.

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Look the non white man should have listened to the dispatcher and let the police do their jobs. However, I find that the media slanting this and making a circus about it.

http://www.examiner.com/charleston-c...51440495210585

Yet idiots like this can make signs and put a bounty on the head of the man.

http://blog.sfgate.com/hottopics/201...shooter/?tsp=1

where is the outrage for this?

http://youtu.be/NsWT5k-T41I

Great point where is the outrage for this http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/468452.../#.T2501jFSTi4

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

Don't you think the DOJ would have charged him by now?

But good edit though.

nm

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

But because it was reported to be a white man shooting an unarmed black boy it is instantly a race issue. That the "white"(who later it seems is really hispanic) man walked with no changes made it more a race issue.

Is there any evidence yet that says the police are racist or handled this poorly yet? I haven't seen it nor has the press. It is all conjecture and rumor at this point and yet both the assailant and the police are racists. Tried and convicted in the press with no trial or due process. How about we let the DOJ and State authoriteies do their work before we pass any judgement. If there was wrong doing they will address it but until then it is all rumor.

This is a powderkeg waiting to go off and I don't think the President helped calm it at all. Once race is involved facts are thrown out the window and emotion reigns.

What is the defense when someone calls you a racist? They don't have to have any evidence just a "feeling" and instantly you are smeared. They just don't like the way you said something. You don't agree with Obama? Well that is because he is Black.. you are a racist. You don't think you should prejudge the police in a race related case? You are a racist... You think government is too big and join the Tea Party.... you are a racist. Seems like unless you think like they do you are a racist. Its like the PC inquisition and there are gangs of "progressives" yelling racist instead of heretic.

For a person who supports the "pull yourself up by your bootstrap" crowd you sure like to play the victim a lot.

[tjinaz]

Quote:
Originally Posted by PIMking
Look the non white man should have listened to the dispatcher and let the police do their jobs. However, I find that the media slanting this and making a circus about it.

http://www.examiner.com/charleston-c...51440495210585

Yet idiots like this can make signs and put a bounty on the head of the man.

http://blog.sfgate.com/hottopics/201...shooter/?tsp=1

where is the outrage for this?

http://youtu.be/NsWT5k-T41I


Great point where is the outrage for this http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/468452.../#.T2501jFSTi4

That is the point we are trying to make.

Why is there only outrage when it is White on Black? All these incidents should be handled the same regardless of race.

Don't make me go all Valo403 on you

[SeeBass]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

That is the point we are trying to make.

Why is there only outrage when it is White on Black? All these incidents should be handled the same regardless of race.

Don't make me go all Valo403 on you

I think we can all agree that we don't want you to go Valo on me

This story bleeds and leads.

If this was a unarmed redhead child getting killed by a black man in a ghetto and it was perceived by the public that justice wasn't served by the black police force this would be a major news story.

This also isn't the first person to be declared quilty by the public and they have come in all colours.

[SeeBass]

I was thinking about the question in regards to "why do we only speak up when it is a white guy that has wronged another race?"

This may be a case for some of us telling the world we do not agree with these actions.
You know when people are saying things like "where are all of these Muslims speaking out against the terrorists? where is their outrage?" Maybe this is kinda like that. Maybe we are showing our outrage and speaking up as it just seems to come natural to our society.

[SeeBass]

for levity sake

[FlamingLonghorn]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

Don't you think the DOJ would have charged him by now?

Quit commenting on things you don't understand. You already showed your ignorance in federal criminal matters when you thought they should charge him with murder. The Feds are not likely to do anything until the state makes their decision and sometimes it won't come until after the trial. Also, federal charges are not generally not made unless a conviction is to follow. Very rarely do the feds bring charges that don't lead to convictions. So their investigations generally take time.

[Flames Fan, Ph.D.]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

There is a history and much mileage to be gained if the deed is done by a white man vs a hispanic. The initial call was white male shot an unarmed black kid and that is why this is news. Do you think the coverage would be the same if the report read hispanic male shoots unarmed black male? Change the location from Florida to Georgia or Mississippi and then we are over the top with racial accusations. A white man kills an unarmed black man in the south and that is an open and shut case in the press. No trial needed he is guilty and if he doesn't go to prison it is an injustice. Now you switch that up and make it a Hispanic.. things aren't so clear. There is no clear antagonist in the press.

Has it been made clear that the police force is racist? Because an unarmed black man was shot and the shooter is not in jail? That makes the police racist? Other than the point that two men (I say men as Trayvon was 17 and could be physically as large or larger than Zimmerman) had an altercation and one was shot dead not a whole lot has been brought out about the case and yet according to you the police force is racist. Zimmerman himself has been called that and much more in the press with no information to back it up and on the contrary more information is coming out that he has Black blood relatives and yet because he had an altercation with a black man and shot him he is racist.

That is what I am saying. There are so many unsubstantiated accusations being made due to what... race. You throw that into the mix and facts become secondary. This is no longer about justice it is a chance for the race baiters to get their time in front of the camera and pander to their fans and for the press to have a huge emotional story to get their readership up and sell advertising. How about we quit with all the accusations until the facts are known?

In your last paragraph you decry the fact that this case is now a playground for race-baiters.

Yet the first paragraph of your post is full of examples of how racism exists in the US.

If there was a matter + antimatter = annihilation filter for internet posts, your's would have made a heck of an explosion.

[VO #23]

At the risk of sounding trite, this tragedy has really demonstrated how effed up the self-defence laws are in many states. This is exacerbated by the ability to carry weapons (sometimes weapons that are concealed).

While the Canadian justice system sure isn't perfect, I'm glad that the self-defence provisions found in the Criminal Code are much narrower than in Florida, especially in relation to taking pre-emptive action (and pre-emptive action using deadly force).

There are certainly racial overtones to this by virtue of the shooter's alibi, but the overarching problem is the overly permissive self-defence law coupled with carrying loaded firearms. It's just a recipe for disaster, constitutionally-protected rights or not.

[tjinaz]

In your last paragraph you decry the fact that this case is now a playground for race-baiters.

Yet the first paragraph of your post is full of examples of how racism exists in the US.

If there was a matter + antimatter = annihilation filter for internet posts, your's would have made a heck of an explosion.

What I am saying is the media coverage is influenced by the location. Those that say sterotyping and profiling are bad do exactly that. If a white man shoots an unarmed black in Mississippi they are pretty much already guilty in the press. He is guilty because he is a white man from mississippi and therefore racist and he got off because the police force is racist, as they have done that before. You say a hispanic man kills an unarmed black man in LA and the tone of the coverage is completely different. Racism will likely not even be mentioned. I think if Zimmerman's name was Figueras and he was listed as Hispanic, especially in Florida, the coverage would be much different. That is my principal disagreement with how all this happened. If you are against profiling and sterotyping be uniform in your reporting.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

Don't you think the DOJ would have charged him by now?

But good edit though.

Charged him with what? As explained to you numerous times, the DOJ has no jurisdiction to lay charges for a homicide. The investigation into whether this qualifies as a hate crime, and therefore a federal offense, will take more than a couple of days.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by tjinaz

What I am saying is the media coverage is influenced by the location. Those that say sterotyping and profiling are bad do exactly that. If a white man shoots an unarmed black in Mississippi they are pretty much already guilty in the press. He is guilty because he is a white man from mississippi and therefore racist and he got off because the police force is racist, as they have done that before. You say a hispanic man kills an unarmed black man in LA and the tone of the coverage is completely different. Racism will likely not even be mentioned. I think if Zimmerman's name was Figueras and he was listed as Hispanic, especially in Florida, the coverage would be much different. That is my principal disagreement with how all this happened. If you are against profiling and sterotyping be uniform in your reporting.

What do you think the coverage would be like if this was a white child killed by a black man?

It's humorous that you think the press is going out of it's way here due to the shooters race when there is a long history of cases involving white victims becoming national stories while cases with nearly identical facts and minority victims barely make the local paper.

There is certainly a racial element to this story, although whether or not race played a role in Zimmerman's actions is a completely different issue, to expect the press to ignore it is naive.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by Hemi-Cuda

as terrible as that story is and as much as i want a fiery death to the perpetrator, one thing in that story stood out



how does that even happen? if you do the math, that woman and at least one offspring down the generational line all have had to given birth before the age of 18. apparently no one in that family has ever heard of birth control

In my home town a mother gave birth on her 33 birthday her 13th kid and also had 2 miscarriages along the way..crazy stupid.

Theres a reason why this planet has gone from 1 billion population to 7 billion in a 100 years.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by valo403

What do you think the coverage would be like if this was a white child killed by a black man?

It's humorous that you think the press is going out of it's way here due to the shooters race when there is a long history of cases involving white victims becoming national stories while cases with nearly identical facts and minority victims barely make the local paper.

There is certainly a racial element to this story, although whether or not race played a role in Zimmerman's actions is a completely different issue, to expect the press to ignore it is naive.

Ironically enough, if a white 17 yo was killed walking around a black neighborhood around here in the evening , it would probably be assumed he was up to no good, and would largely be ignored.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Ironically enough, if a white 17 yo was killed walking around a black neighborhood around here in the evening , it would probably be assumed he was up to no good, and would largely be ignored.

I get your point, but this wasn't a 'white neighborhood', it was a typical middle class mixed race neighborhood.

[Cowperson]

Originally Posted by valo403

What do you think the coverage would be like if this was a white child killed by a black man?

It's humorous that you think the press is going out of it's way here due to the shooters race when there is a long history of cases involving white victims becoming national stories while cases with nearly identical facts and minority victims barely make the local paper.

There is certainly a racial element to this story, although whether or not race played a role in Zimmerman's actions is a completely different issue, to expect the press to ignore it is naive.

Generally, there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason why one story gets glommed onto versus another . . . . humans love a mystery and we always seem to have one on the go in the national media to entertain us.

Yet there are so many storylines of a similar nature at the same time that it would be impossible for them all to get the same national attention.

Maybe its unusual in this case, and therefore newsworthy, because it is actually unusual for a black to be killed by someone outside of his/her own race.

The majority of violent crime in the USA is intra-racial, not inter-racial.

A black murder victim is about 90% likely to have been killed by another black.

While African Americans comprise 13.5% of the U.S. Population, 43% of all murder victims in 2007 were African American, 93.1% of whom were killed were African Americans.

http://www.hhscenter.org/bonbstat.html

One specific example where a city bemoans the lack of white murder victims: Cincinnati. http://www.wcpo.com/dpp/news/news_ar...ime-rate-rises

Interestingly, serious acts of violent crime against blacks were more likely to be reported to police than similar acts against whites, maybe because of volume.

Although its Wikipedia, this seems a fair and reasonably learned examination of Race and Crime in the USA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Race_an..._United_States

In this particular case, its an interesting storyline because of a law which may allow the killer to pursue and execute a suspect and then get away with it.

Its really this law which may be on trial and special interest groups on both sides of it will spend a lot of time vocalizing their defences.

Otherwise, its just another day.

Cowperson

[CaptainCrunch]

I don't know who Digital Journal is, but an interesting article about this case being tried in the court of public opinion and the media's role in it including a I guess unedited copy of the 9/11 call and discussions around the amount of editing that's happened to this tape by the media

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/321817

Different groups calling for hate crime charges, some people come out in Zimmerman's defense

http://www.daily-chronicle.com/2012/...urorry/?page=1

More from CBS

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...ly-remorseful/

I don't know, this thing is getting a bit silly with the Black Panther's offering a bounty on Zimmerman, and the whole charge him with a hate crime aspect.

You can't start arresting people and charging them with hate crimes because of public opinion, the justice system is suppossed to be above public opinion.

I think this is a case of a moron with a gun trying to be a cop, I think this is a case of a teenager making a bad decision (I know this makes me look bad, but 1. I learned early that you don't charge a person unless you know what that person's state of mind is, and if he's packing. 2) I'm going off of the theory that the stories about Zimmerman's injuries and torn shirt are true.)

I think this was a tragic confluence of events, a guy that was legally licenced to carry a gun and appointed to a neighbourhood watch program who shouldn't have had a fire arm, who made a bad probably hyped up judgement call, a teenage boy who made a decision that wasn't a good decision.

I very much doubt that this falls into a hate crime.

Because of the job that the media has done on this and the various groups have done on this ie Black Panthers, Al Sharpton (again!!), the invesigations and the steps forward are probably not going to gain a conviction, and if they do there will be questions about a fair trial. How the F would you even sit a jury in this case without it being a appealed either which way along racial lines?

What this has shown me, is the amount of mistrust and anger along racial lines in the states that is happening to this day, and that's the biggest tragedy in this whole thing.

[valo403]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

I don't know who Digital Journal is, but an interesting article about this case being tried in the court of public opinion and the media's role in it including a I guess unedited copy of the 9/11 call and discussions around the amount of editing that's happened to this tape by the media

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/321817

Different groups calling for hate crime charges, some people come out in Zimmerman's defense

http://www.daily-chronicle.com/2012/...urorry/?page=1

More from CBS

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...ly-remorseful/

I don't know, this thing is getting a bit silly with the Black Panther's offering a bounty on Zimmerman, and the whole charge him with a hate crime aspect.

You can't start arresting people and charging them with hate crimes because of public opinion, the justice system is suppossed to be above public opinion.

I think this is a case of a moron with a gun trying to be a cop, I think this is a case of a teenager making a bad decision (I know this makes me look bad, but 1. I learned early that you don't charge a person unless you know what that person's state of mind is, and if he's packing. 2) I'm going off of the theory that the stories about Zimmerman's injuries and torn shirt are true.)

I think this was a tragic confluence of events, a guy that was legally licenced to carry a gun and appointed to a neighbourhood watch program who shouldn't have had a fire arm, who made a bad probably hyped up judgement call, a teenage boy who made a decision that wasn't a good decision.

I very much doubt that this falls into a hate crime.

Because of the job that the media has done on this and the various groups have done on this ie Black Panthers, Al Sharpton (again!!), the invesigations and the steps forward are probably not going to gain a conviction, and if they do there will be questions about a fair trial. How the F would you even sit a jury in this case without it being a appealed either which way along racial lines?

What this has shown me, is the amount of mistrust and anger along racial lines in the states that is happening to this day, and that's the biggest tragedy in this whole thing.

1. Who exactly has been charged with a hate crime?

2. Interesting that you're willing to jump to conclusions and believe select bits of evidence when they agree with how you've decided that this scenario played out.

Even if I believe that Zimmerman has a torn shirt and was 'charged' are you seriously sitting there and suggesting that fighting back against a psychopath who comes at you with a gun is a bad decision? You would have just stood there and took it? I find that incredibly hard to believe. You have no idea when the gun entered the equation, you have no idea who charged who, and actually none of us do because we're dealing with a police force that took a 'nothing to see here' approach to the death of a 17 year old boy walking home from the store.

As for the ability to sit a jury, there have been numerous cases with racial tones that have been successfully tried despite the mass media coverage they received.