[Trade] Frost + Farabee from PHI to CGY for Pelletier + Kuzmenko + 25 2nd + 28 7th

[Andrew]

La is good drafting and development team. I like how they stick to their players let them grow in minors much like flames. It comes down too go volume of picks. When flames had so called poor drafts no picks.

Toronto has done ok with limited picks.

This board has an obsession with Dallas. They are good no doubt. There is lot of good teams.

[devo22]

speaking of Dallas, I'm just still in awe of their 2017 draft. Heiskanen was not a difficult pick to nail at #3, but following that up with Oettinger and Robertson is amazing. Coming out of a single draft with a franchise defenseman, a franchise goaltender and a 40+ goals, PPG winger is incredible.

Pretty funny too because they had whiffed on quite a few 1st rounders the years prior. Nichushkin wasn't great for them, Dickinson topped out as a bottom sixer, Gurianov faded quickly, and both Honka and Tufte were complete busts. At least they found Hintz in the second round.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Because drafting typically isn't consistent. Detroit was the gold standard. Tampa was the gold standard. Just because the Flames have made some solid picks in the past doesn't guarantee they will make them in the future. Especially when the high end players are the least likely.

I'll never find the link again but the Athletic did an analysis of multiple years (I think it was 10-15) and had the Flames like 2nd or something in return for draft capital.

That's key.

You exceed your draft capital level.

If they continue to do that they'll be just fine with the extra picks in three straight drafts.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Andrew

La is good drafting and development team. I like how they stick to their players let them grow in minors much like flames. It comes down too go volume of picks. When flames had so called poor drafts no picks.

Toronto has done ok with limited picks.

This board has an obsession with Dallas. They are good no doubt. There is lot of good teams.

Since they won the Cup with Sutter, they've been out of the POs 5 times and eliminated in the first round 5 times. I don't see anyone they drafted who's done particularly well. They drafted Byfield 2OA and he'd struggle to get into the top 10 in a redraft. Dunno if I'd trade Zary for him straight up.

[Andrew]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Since they won the Cup with Sutter, they've been out of the POs 5 times and eliminated in the first round 5 times. I don't see anyone they drafted who's done particularly well. They drafted Byfield 2OA and he'd struggle to get into the top 10 in a redraft. Dunno if I'd trade Zary for him straight up.

I think you need to look a bit deeper than top picks

They drafted Faber who traded for fiala.

Lafrerier having good year
Kempe waa great?
Anderson
Brandt Clarke
Thomas
Kumari (traded)
Vilardi ktraded)

Used prospects to buy because ppl wanted.

Etc.
Lot of home grown. Big d developed and scouted ufa signings.

[Jiggy_12]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'll never find the link again but the Athletic did an analysis of multiple years (I think it was 10-15) and had the Flames like 2nd or something in return for draft capital.

That's key.

You exceed your draft capital level.

If they continue to do that they'll be just fine with the extra picks in three straight drafts.

I think this might be the one;
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/508...ng-best-picks/

And this isn't even including our excellent 2024 draft!

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jiggy_12

I think this might be the one;
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/508...ng-best-picks/

And this isn't even including our excellent 2024 draft!

Thanks!

Written just over a year ago (15 months).

So if it was written today add 2019 which saw them add Pelletier in the first round and Wolf in the 7th.

Can't see that 2nd overall ranking sliding with that Wolf pick!

A year from now they'd add 2020 with Zary in the first round, which will help, and then what does a year do to the maybes; Kuznetsov, Poirier, Kerins and Solovyov?

Calgary drafting has been solid.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Thanks!

Written just over a year ago (15 months).

So if it was written today add 2019 which saw them add Pelletier in the first round and Wolf in the 7th.

Can't see that 2nd overall ranking sliding with that Wolf pick!

A year from now they'd add 2020 with Zary in the first round, which will help, and then what does a year do to the maybes; Kuznetsov, Poirier, Kerins and Solovyov?

Calgary drafting has been solid.

Interestingly, without the 2017 draft for Dallas -- or even with an average draft -- they'd be dropped into the teens.

Adding 2019 and that Wolf pick, Calgary should easily push into first on that list. It's crazy that as recently as this past summer, some folks on this board remained critical of Calgary's draft work.

Another reason for Conroy to just remain patient, build a strong culture -- and draft and develop his team.

[Ba'alzamon]

Dallas's problem at the draft is they're quite good in the first two rounds, but terrible in the third and on. If someone combined the Flames' ability to find NHLers past the second round, and Dallas's ability to find impact players in the second and late first, they'd be unstoppable.

[YyjFlames]

Originally Posted by Ba'alzamon

Dallas's problem at the draft is they're quite good in the first two rounds, but terrible in the third and on. If someone combined the Flames' ability to find NHLers past the second round, and Dallas's ability to find impact players in the second and late first, they'd be unstoppable.

The Calgary Flames 2024 draft table says hello.

[Enoch Root]

Yeah, one home run draft for Dallas, IMO, and that has skewed everyone's perception of them.

Heiskanen was arguably a bad pick, because they should have taken Makar

Oettinger is a goalie, so that's basically luck

And Robertson was a Covid pick where there was very little information on the player - they liked him and it worked out. But calling Dallas great at drafting, based primarily on those 3 picks, is pretty baseless if you ask me - a LOT of good fortune there.

I think you need a lot more consistency before you deserve credit for being the best, not one big shot of random good fortune.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah, one home run draft for Dallas, IMO, and that has skewed everyone's perception of them.

Heiskanen was arguably a bad pick, because they should have taken Makar

Oettinger is a goalie, so that's basically luck

And Robertson was a Covid pick where there was very little information on the player - they liked him and it worked out. But calling Dallas great at drafting, based primarily on those 3 picks, is pretty baseless if you ask me - a LOT of good fortune there.

I think you need a lot more consistency before you deserve credit for being the best, not one big shot of random good fortune.

I think it's more than that though because you add to those picks: Wyatt Johnston, Logan Stankoven and Thomas Harley. 3 more fantastic picks for where they were made.
Roberston wasn't a covid pick at all. I think you are thinking of Wyatt.

[Ba'alzamon]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think it's more than that though because you add to those picks: Wyatt Johnston, Logan Stankoven and Thomas Harley. 3 more fantastic picks for where they were made.
Roberston wasn't a covid pick at all. I think you are thinking of Wyatt.

Don't forget Hintz.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think it's more than that though because you add to those picks: Wyatt Johnston, Logan Stankoven and Thomas Harley. 3 more fantastic picks for where they were made.

Sure, but every team has that.

They have one homerun draft that puts them at the top. And that homerun is mostly just luck.

The Flames (as one example), have a more consistent track record of hitting later round picks: Coronato, Zary, Pelletier, Dube, Fox, Andersson, Mangiapane, Pospisil, Wolf

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Andrew

I think you need to look a bit deeper than top picks

They drafted Faber who traded for fiala.

Lafrerier having good year
Kempe waa great?
Anderson
Brandt Clarke
Thomas
Kumari (traded)
Vilardi ktraded)

Used prospects to buy because ppl wanted.

Etc.
Lot of home grown. Big d developed and scouted ufa signings.

That’s a lot of meh. How have they done with all those players?

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I'll never find the link again but the Athletic did an analysis of multiple years (I think it was 10-15) and had the Flames like 2nd or something in return for draft capital.

That's key.

You exceed your draft capital level.

If they continue to do that they'll be just fine with the extra picks in three straight drafts.

Oh please god not this article again

It actually showed the Flames were quiet bad outside of MT and Fox

And drafting Fox late when his stock is low because people are worried he won’t sign - and then having him not sign - isn’t “great drafting “

The article showed they were very bad in the 1st round , bad in the 2nd , but really really good in later rounds because they found a Norris winner late (who never played for them)

The amount of people referencing this article who clearly never read it (or understood the data ) astonishes me

[Buff]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Yeah, one home run draft for Dallas, IMO, and that has skewed everyone's perception of them.

Heiskanen was arguably a bad pick, because they should have taken Makar

Oettinger is a goalie, so that's basically luck

And Robertson was a Covid pick where there was very little information on the player - they liked him and it worked out. But calling Dallas great at drafting, based primarily on those 3 picks, is pretty baseless if you ask me - a LOT of good fortune there.

I think you need a lot more consistency before you deserve credit for being the best, not one big shot of random good fortune.

The pandemic was indeed a long period of trying times for everybody but it didn't start in 2017! Covid times really must have hit you harder than it did me!

As for Heiskanen. Even though they missed out on Makar they still get a pass because Heiskanen has been amazing for them. One of those rare moments where you don't necessarily regret missing out on something better than what you have because what you got is damn good. Definitely some people will wonder what the team would like like with Makar instead of Heiskanen though.

Oettinger and Robertson have turned out to be steals for Dallas.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

Oh please god not this article again

It actually showed the Flames were quiet bad outside of MT and Fox

And drafting Fox late when his stock is low because people are worried he won’t sign - and then having him not sign - isn’t “great drafting “

The article showed they were very bad in the 1st round , bad in the 2nd , but really really good in later rounds because they found a Norris winner late (who never played for them)

The amount of people referencing this article who clearly never read it (or understood the data ) astonishes me

The article shows that they dealt to many picks, but did well with the picks they made.

Drafting Fox in the third round will always be a great draft pick.

Even if you value him only at the return they got.

[Super-Rye]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Thanks!

Written just over a year ago (15 months).

So if it was written today add 2019 which saw them add Pelletier in the first round and Wolf in the 7th.

Can't see that 2nd overall ranking sliding with that Wolf pick!

A year from now they'd add 2020 with Zary in the first round, which will help, and then what does a year do to the maybes; Kuznetsov, Poirier, Kerins and Solovyov?

Calgary drafting has been solid.

It's probably the best it's been since Ive been a fan. That might not being saying much. I was to young for the 80s. The Chucky, Johnny and Mony era was decent but still a lot of weird picks (Kanzig, Hunter Smith). I remember a time where Eric Nystrom was our best prospect and I'm pretty sure he always projected as a depth forward. Those were dark times lol.

It remains to be seen if the top end will be there but the absolute depth the Flames have with their prospects is the best I have ever seen it.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

That’s a lot of meh. How have they done with all those players?

Their issue is similar to the Flames in that they haven't unearthed an elite player despite the fact they had higher picks to work with. Parekh has the chance to be that for the Flames but none of those Kings players are close outside of Kempe who is a 1st line talent on a lot of teams. Kings right now are what the Flames don't want to be in a few years. Plateaued with a mediocre roster.