07-16-2023, 11:08 AM
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#1561
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: SW Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aarongavey
I guess, but if the Flames are in the Stanley Cup contender category then the capitals and jets are too. It is a pretty big category to get the Flames into it.
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Maybe they are. We don't know what the Jets are going to be either. Lots of pieces that can move there. There are so many teams that are close it is really hard to accurately declare contenders. Nobody had Vegas winning the Cup. Nobody saw the Kraken not only making the playoffs but dumping the Avs in round 1 whom most people had repeating. That is part of the beauty of the NHL, it really is get in and anything can happen.
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07-16-2023, 01:29 PM
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#1562
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#1 Goaltender
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Vegas won the West. They've also had a lot of recent playoff success. I don't think it is a huge surprise they won. Typically most Cup winners are elite teams and it isn't a huge surprise. There definitely is parity in the league but looking at a few outlier teams that sometimes go on runs and using that as your basis for the Flames seems misguided. I think you'd be better off looking at the long list of teams that didn't go on runs because statistically that's what is more likely to happen.
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07-16-2023, 01:41 PM
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#1563
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackey
Vegas won the West. They've also had a lot of recent playoff success. I don't think it is a huge surprise they won. Typically most Cup winners are elite teams and it isn't a huge surprise. There definitely is parity in the league but looking at a few outlier teams that sometimes go on runs and using that as your basis for the Flames seems misguided. I think you'd be better off looking at the long list of teams that didn't go on runs because statistically that's what is more likely to happen.
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At the highest level - Vegas and Calgary last year and the Flames this year are pretty similar.
Vegas was one of the best teams in the league in 20-21, just like the Flames were in 21-22. Vegas then missed the playoffs by a few points in 21-22, just like the Flames in 22-23. Vegas even had big trades that occurred during that period (Eichel for Tuch/Krebs/Draft picks) and lost good players for nothing (Pacioretty, Dadonov).
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07-16-2023, 01:52 PM
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#1564
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Lifetime Suspension
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteMoss
At the highest level - Vegas and Calgary last year and the Flames this year are pretty similar.
Vegas was one of the best teams in the league in 20-21, just like the Flames were in 21-22. Vegas then missed the playoffs by a few points in 21-22, just like the Flames in 22-23. Vegas even had big trades that occurred during that period (Eichel for Tuch/Krebs/Draft picks) and lost good players for nothing (Pacioretty, Dadonov).
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That ignores Vegas trip to the Cup final and Conference finals. Flames never came close to that level of play-off success.
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07-16-2023, 02:00 PM
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#1565
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: SW Ontario
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Does it?
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07-16-2023, 03:11 PM
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#1566
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aarongavey
This team is a contender if you really want extend the number of teams that are contenders. Don’t think many would take the Flames next year over the Avs, Stars, Knights, Oilers or Kings in the West. Could make an argument against the Wild and Kraken. Wild card or 3rd in the pacific is probably the best case scenario.
Just because some people think this team is a legitimate Stanley Cup contender does not make it so.
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VGK, STL, WAS. 3 of the last 6 cup winners were not considered legit contenders in the off-season prior to their wins.
I've never thought this group was good enough, but I actually think they've got a higher ceiling now than they ever did when built around JG and MT (though even as an advocate for retooling around Tkachuk, he was better this year than I ever thought possible).
"get in and anything can happen" is a bad philosophy when your build is on the upswing, but it's actually totally fine once you've crested the build's culmination point.
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07-16-2023, 05:21 PM
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#1567
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Participant  |
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spurs
That ignores Vegas trip to the Cup final and Conference finals. Flames never came close to that level of play-off success.
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Vegas going from conference finals, to semifinals, to missing entirely, to Stanley Cup champions is a pretty much perfect example of how slim the margin between 1st and 17th is.
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07-16-2023, 05:37 PM
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#1568
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#1 Goaltender
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Vegas won the Conference this year. They went to two Conference finals and the Cup finals prior to winning the Cup. Don't think any team other than Tampa has had that much recent playoff success. Last year was an anomaly when they had tons of injuries and their 2 best players missed more than half the season. Vegas is far from a surprise.
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07-16-2023, 06:07 PM
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#1569
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Powerplay Quarterback
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Vegas has been around it for a few years. I dont think anyone is that shocked they won it.
Flames havnt had nearly the success Vegas has had
Yeah we finished top of the division one year and won a round. Vegas did that multiple years.
That's the difference between contenders. They consistently finish in the top of the standings and win rounds over a few seasons.
Flames ain't that
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07-16-2023, 06:21 PM
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#1570
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Participant |
Quote:
Originally Posted by traptor
Vegas has been around it for a few years. I dont think anyone is that shocked they won it.
Flames havnt had nearly the success Vegas has had
Yeah we finished top of the division one year and won a round. Vegas did that multiple years.
That's the difference between contenders. They consistently finish in the top of the standings and win rounds over a few seasons.
Flames ain't that
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They could be.
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07-16-2023, 06:41 PM
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#1571
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#1 Goaltender
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My concern with the Flames is all the blame seems to have been put on Sutter. How much of last year is actually on him and how much is actually on the players? All I know is if the Flames miss the playoffs again this year, yikes things are going to look very very bleek moving forward.
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07-16-2023, 06:49 PM
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#1572
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackey
My concern with the Flames is all the blame seems to have been put on Sutter. How much of last year is actually on him and how much is actually on the players? All I know is if the Flames miss the playoffs again this year, yikes things are going to look very very bleek moving forward.
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Then they get a great prospect and possibly realize they need to rebuild
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07-16-2023, 06:56 PM
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#1573
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#1 Goaltender
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackey
Vegas won the Conference this year. They went to two Conference finals and the Cup finals prior to winning the Cup. Don't think any team other than Tampa has had that much recent playoff success. Last year was an anomaly when they had tons of injuries and their 2 best players missed more than half the season. Vegas is far from a surprise.
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They’ve missed the playoffs once since they’ve been in the league. 2 finals appearances. It’s been Colorado and Vegas as confidence heavy weights basically ever since Vegas was in the league.
So, yeah, I don’t see a great comp with the Flames.
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07-16-2023, 07:17 PM
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#1574
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
Then they get a great prospect and possibly realize they need to rebuild
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Right after signing that 8 yr deal with our luck.
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07-16-2023, 10:23 PM
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#1575
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#1 Goaltender
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina
Then they get a great prospect and possibly realize they need to rebuild
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Do they? Knowing the Flames it's in the 13-16 range.
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07-16-2023, 10:31 PM
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#1576
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Acerbic Cyberbully
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: back in Chilliwack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hackey
Do they? Knowing the Flames it's in the 13-16 range.
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Everything sucks. Nothing is good. The future is bleak. The present is misery. There is no hope.
How do you manage?
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07-17-2023, 12:02 AM
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#1577
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Backup Goalie
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: calgary
Exp: 
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...So I wonder if Lindholm wants to stay?!
__________________
When I'm walking a dark road, I am a man who walks alone....(Unless Robin tags along)...
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07-17-2023, 12:14 AM
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#1578
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Oct 2021
Location: Richmond upon Thames, London
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Lindholm is interested in staying!
Meanwhile..
Lindholm puts 70+ million dollar offer on back burner for sea dooing, Netflix and afternoon naps.
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07-17-2023, 12:40 AM
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#1579
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traptor
Vegas has been around it for a few years. I dont think anyone is that shocked they won it.
Flames havnt had nearly the success Vegas has had
Yeah we finished top of the division one year and won a round. Vegas did that multiple years.
That's the difference between contenders. They consistently finish in the top of the standings and win rounds over a few seasons.
Flames ain't that
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Flames won the division twice...only Calgary and Vegas have won the Pacific since Vegas entered the league
__________________
GFG
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07-17-2023, 06:35 AM
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#1580
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First Line Centre
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dino7c
Flames won the division twice...only Calgary and Vegas have won the Pacific since Vegas entered the league
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Now do playoff rounds won by each team in the same time frame. Division titles and playoff success are two different things. Flames haven't come remotely close to winning it all.
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