2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Trades I'd like to see:

- hanifin to blues for 25th overall + Jake neighbors
- toffoli to canes (50% retained) for canes 1st+ Noel gunler+ Ryan Suzuki
- kadri+2nd to Colorado for newhook

If lindholm won't sign an extension then trade him too.

Follow this up by making some rfa offers (meier? Troy Terry? Debrincat?) Because we can risk our 24 pick if we're picking thrice this year.

That Kadri trade is very bad for the Avs

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Trades I'd like to see:

- hanifin to blues for 25th overall + Jake neighbors

Maybe, but unlikely. I think the Blues sit on Neighbors. Like all teams they need good young talent to take the pressure off the cap.

- toffoli to canes (50% retained) for canes 1st+ Noel gunler+ Ryan Suzuki

Pick one of those assets and you might get it. All three? Carolina walks away quickly and with purpose.

- kadri+2nd to Colorado for newhook

I doubt Colorado does this, even with Landeskog on the shelf for next year. They have to manage the cap and Kadri's hit would be poison to them when Landeskog returns. If Landeskog was done and off the books for good, then maybe, but without certainty I doubt they consider this.

If lindholm won't sign an extension then trade him too.

Might be sent packing anyways so the cap is manageable.

Follow this up by making some rfa offers (meier? Troy Terry? Debrincat?) Because we can risk our 24 pick if we're picking thrice this year.

You only make RFA offers if you think you're in your window, which the Flames clearly are not, especially if they dump all those players for futures.

[memphusk]

Don't you have to give up your own pick if you're making RFAs offer sheets?

[Lanny_McDonald]

Yes, which we don't control.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Don't you have to give up your own pick if you're making RFAs offer sheets?

Depending on the amount (over ~$1.4M), you do have to give up draft pick compensation in subsequent drafts. You can't send out offer sheets until after the current year's draft is over.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Yes, which we don't control.

You're wrong. https://www.capfriendly.com/offer-sheet-calculator

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by butterfly

You're wrong. https://www.capfriendly.com/offer-sheet-calculator

I am, am I?

From capfriently's FAQ on offersheets (linked in the calculator you posted).

What are the details for the club making the offer sheet?

To submit an Offer Sheet, the following conditions must be met:

1) The submitting club must have all of the required draft picks available prior to submission

2) All of the draft picks required as compensation must be the club's own draft picks (draft picks acquired from a different team in a trade cannot be used)

We don't control our 1st for the 2024 or 2025 draft so cannot make offersheets that exceed $4.29M, which is what it would take for players like Meier, Terry, or Debrincat.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I am, am I?

From capfriently's FAQ on offersheets (linked in the calculator you posted).

What are the details for the club making the offer sheet?

To submit an Offer Sheet, the following conditions must be met:

1) The submitting club must have all of the required draft picks available prior to submission

2) All of the draft picks required as compensation must be the club's own draft picks (draft picks acquired from a different team in a trade cannot be used)

We don't control our 1st for the 2024 or 2025 draft so cannot make offersheets that exceed $4.29M, which is what it would take for players like Meier, Terry, or Debrincat.

The Flames as of now own all their picks in 24 and 25 and will for sure own their own pick in 24 or 25. How that interacts with all the crazy conditions on the Monahan trade I am really not sure.

[Lanny_McDonald]

The conditions mean they do not have control of the picks. The ownership of those picks is uncertain because of conditions not yet being determined, meaning the Flames cannot include those in other deals. That would include offer sheets because those picks are not yet the Flames to offer as compensation.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

I am, am I?

From capfriently's FAQ on offersheets (linked in the calculator you posted).

What are the details for the club making the offer sheet?

To submit an Offer Sheet, the following conditions must be met:

1) The submitting club must have all of the required draft picks available prior to submission

2) All of the draft picks required as compensation must be the club's own draft picks (draft picks acquired from a different team in a trade cannot be used)

We don't control our 1st for the 2024 or 2025 draft so cannot make offersheets that exceed $4.29M, which is what it would take for players like Meier, Terry, or Debrincat.

Yes, keep reading that same list. If you have to surrender two first-round picks, you can use three years. If you have to surrender four first-round picks, you can use five years.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Did you miss they must be sourced from the immediately succeeding drafts? You don’t get to put in an offer sheet with picks from two drafts away. Only when there are multiple picks in the same round do you get to leverage that caveat. You still must own the primary pick in each round for the next draft.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Did you miss they must be sourced from the immediately succeeding drafts? You don’t get to put in an offer sheet with picks from two drafts away. Only when there are multiple picks in the same round do you get to leverage that caveat. You still must own the primary pick in each round for the next draft.

Of course you can. How else are you going to send a team two of your own first-round picks if one isn't two drafts away? That's why the Flames logo is in the requirements met column for all offer sheet amounts.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Calgary's 2024 and 2025 1st rounders are held with conditions, meaning they cannot be traded or used as compensation until those conditions are met and the deal concluded. Montreal is owed the 2025 1st rounder, but if the 2024 is in the 20 to 32 range, Montreal can choose to take that pick. It is conditionally theirs meaning Calgary CANNOT move that pick until that condition is cleared. Because there is a condition attached to Florida's pick, which it may also not be met until the 2025 draft, it further locks that pick up. Treliving tied our 1st rounders up in a series of conditional trades that makes using them for compensation almost impossible. Calgary is out of the offer sheet game until 2026 thanks to complex deal Treliving cooked up to send out Monahan and bring in Kadri.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Calgary's 2024 and 2025 1st rounders are held with conditions, meaning they cannot be traded or used as compensation until those conditions are met and the deal concluded. Montreal is owed the 2025 1st rounder, but if the 2024 is in the 20 to 32 range, Montreal can choose to take that pick. It is conditionally theirs meaning Calgary CANNOT move that pick until that condition is cleared. Because there is a condition attached to Florida's pick, which it may also not be met until the 2025 draft, it further locks that pick up. Treliving tied our 1st rounders up in a series of conditional trades that makes using them for compensation almost impossible. Calgary is out of the offer sheet game until 2026 thanks to complex deal Treliving cooked up to send out Monahan and bring in Kadri.

The Flames could go to Montreal and give them some compensation to simplify the terms. Not likely but not impossible.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Calgary's 2024 and 2025 1st rounders are held with conditions, meaning they cannot be traded or used as compensation until those conditions are met and the deal concluded. Montreal is owed the 2025 1st rounder, but if the 2024 is in the 20 to 32 range, Montreal can choose to take that pick. It is conditionally theirs meaning Calgary CANNOT move that pick until that condition is cleared. Because there is a condition attached to Florida's pick, which it may also not be met until the 2025 draft, it further locks that pick up. Treliving tied our 1st rounders up in a series of conditional trades that makes using them for compensation almost impossible. Calgary is out of the offer sheet game until 2026 thanks to complex deal Treliving cooked up to send out Monahan and bring in Kadri.

Either,

(a.) Montreal takes the 2024 pick,
(b.) Montreal gets the Flames 2025 pick,
(c.) Montreal gets the Florida 2025 pick,
(d.) Montreal gets the Flames 2026 pick.

In any scenario, the Flames have 2 of their own first rounders from 2024-2026 to send out as offer sheet compensation.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by Bonded

The Flames could go to Montreal and give them some compensation to simplify the terms. Not likely but not impossible.

Which means they have to provide other compensation to regain control of the asset in question. The draft pick is not theirs to offer up as compensation in any other deal as there are conditions in place that could transfer it to another team through that team’s choice. I don’t know why this is so hard to understand. It’s clearly double dealing of picks.

Imagine if someone offersheeted a Flames player and the compensation was to be a draft pick for 2024 draft, but the team had a condition in place where that pick may transfer to another team. The Flames invest time, energy, and planning for the 2024 draft only to have that pick kicked down the road because the other team exercised their right to the pick through a condition. Would that be fair? No, which is why it is not allowed. That would be double dealing. It’s why you have to own your own picks for direct unconditional compensation.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by butterfly

Either,

(a.) Montreal takes the 2024 pick,
(b.) Montreal gets the Flames 2025 pick,
(c.) Montreal gets the Florida 2025 pick,
(d.) Montreal gets the Flames 2026 pick.

In any scenario, the Flames have 2 of their own first rounders from 2024-2026 to send out as offer sheet compensation.

But if it isn’t established which picks those are at the time of the offer sheet, it cannot be made.

[FlamesAddiction]

What you could do is approach the teams and say hey, are you worried about anyone offer sheeting these guys, and would you match if someone did? If they are not sure they would or could match, you could offer the first rounders in a trade. They might be inclined to take that offer if they think the picks you have to offer are likely to be better than a team doing up the offer sheets.

Even if we could do an offer sheet, which we can't, I wouldn't want the Flames to do that. By the very nature of an offer sheet, you need to really over pay and with this team's cap situation going into next season, they can't do that. It's really only true contenders that should consider stuff like that, unless it is a smaller offer sheet with less compensation going back. Plus, we really need our draft picks.

[butterfly]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

But if it isn’t established which picks those are at the time of the offer sheet, it cannot be made.

I reviewed the CBA and I believe you're right and I'm wrong. I think what this person said would have to be the case to remove the 'encumbrance' from the draft picks:

Originally Posted by Bonded

The Flames could go to Montreal and give them some compensation to simplify the terms. Not likely but not impossible.

"Encumbrance" with respect to a draft pick isn't defined in the CBA, but the conditions on the Monahan trade would seem to be applicable in this context.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Lanny_McDonald

Which means they have to provide other compensation to regain control of the asset in question. The draft pick is not theirs to offer up as compensation in any other deal as there are conditions in place that could transfer it to another team through that team’s choice. I don’t know why this is so hard to understand. It’s clearly double dealing of picks.

Imagine if someone offersheeted a Flames player and the compensation was to be a draft pick for 2024 draft, but the team had a condition in place where that pick may transfer to another team. The Flames invest time, energy, and planning for the 2024 draft only to have that pick kicked down the road because the other team exercised their right to the pick through a condition. Would that be fair? No, which is why it is not allowed. That would be double dealing. It’s why you have to own your own picks for direct unconditional compensation.

No, it would have to be something like here is another pick or prospect to drop their rights to the 24 pick.