Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Too bad you elite don’t get enough of the vote.

What a bizarre conclusion and statement.

Why do you hate/feel threatened by educated and successful people who think critically about issues?

[Maccalus]

Originally Posted by calgarygeologist

This is right from the article you linked:


So, I don't think it is very unreasonable for the Premier to be questioning whether or not a nuclear could be built by 2035. If it might possibly take Ontario ten years to build another reactor at an existing site it seems that a new development in Alberta would take as long or longer.

Most of the delays are regulatory framework related though, something that having creative governments who work together can improve. The federal government wants Alberta to decarbonize the grid, nuclear is a viable way to do that. Work together and get things done. Nuclear is only one option that that can and should be explored.

The global average is well below 15 years for nuclear plant construction.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...rs-since-1981/

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Another master class. That’s my Premier.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1717717395295592924

It's near impossible to reason with people that delusional and energy ignorant but still good to see the premier engaging with those of differing viewpoints.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Too bad you elite don’t get enough of the vote.

Well, aside from the fact that the UCP lost the majority of Edmonton and Calgary last election (a trend that will continue in 2027), it's a badge of honor to know I didn't vote for the UCP. You need to stop being so hurt that many of us have tuned Smith out a long time ago.

[Red Slinger]

Originally Posted by Zarley

It's near impossible to reason with people that delusional and energy ignorant but still good to see the premier engaging with those of differing viewpoints.

Sorry, are you referring to our Premier that actively ignores the advice of experts that don't align with her twisted world views?

[Faust]

Alberta Premier Danielle Smith questions credibility of International Energy Agency:

https://globalnews.ca/news/10051687/...energy-agency/

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Wormius

What a bizarre conclusion and statement.

Why do you hate/feel threatened by educated and successful people who think critically about issues?

This is what the discourse is becoming in Alberta, if one is to listen to people like Smith who tout "her experts" and David Parker, the TBA firebrand who touts populist and predictable right-wing schlock (and who is pulling the strings behind Smith). It's intellectualism versus populism. This whole 'grassroots, real Albertans, anti-woke' angle is really just an aggressive form of disagreement with the foundational and institutional beliefs in conventional science and academia.

The populists think they know something bleeding edge that is superior to the old way of doing things, which ironically involves moving backwards on agendas such as education, healthcare and individual rights.

I quoted his Tweet earlier, but there was a good exchange of thoughts between Max Fawcett and Parker on the Dean Blundell Show the other day. Fawcett brought receipts and facts, and Parker just shouted conspiracies, misinformation and insults. It's worth a watch.

To the populists credit, they're busy organizing their base and trying to take over school boards, constituency boards, and other 'behind the scenes' political apparatus. They're motivated and hungry. And progressives need to respond accordingly. Social media platforms also put many of their fringe views on display in the mainstream for all to consume.

Effectively the dude standing on the soapbox in Hyde Park shouting gibberish has been given a microphone and stage and put on equal footing.

But at the end of the day, if a kid with an incomplete view of the world wants to drive a car and force the licensed driver out, and they get actually in the driver seat, there's no guarantees their desire to drive the car isn't going to lead to fiery disaster.

There are plenty of educated, well-intentioned conservatives out there, and they absolutely need a place in community leadership. But those conservatives have been ousted by the loud voices on the populist right. It's like there's a Halloween mask that the conservatives can't seem to remove off their head and everyone can see it.

Smith plays into that populist rhetoric by being combative and shouting 'my experts' when challenged on basic points.

[Tron_fdc]

I do agree with her here though. Wind and solar are not 100% reliable and there are going to be times that you need baseload capacity to cover their shortfalls.

So either you improve the provincial interties to accommodate when Alberta needs it (buy power from the USA, BC/Sask), or you turn to nuclear, gas or coal plants. Likely gas because nuclear takes forever to build, and coal won't work for obvious environmental reasons. Gas turbines can be immediately brought on when load is required and they're a lot easier to get built in comparison.

Pretty sure it was Germany that already went through this exercise and learned the hard way that you need to be able to cover baseload when renewables aren't running.

[Zarley]

Originally Posted by Red Slinger

Sorry, are you referring to our Premier that actively ignores the advice of experts that don't align with her twisted world views?

No, I'm referring to the energy ignorance that pervades society. This net zero fantasy that otherwise intelligent people have bought into and the naive belief that it's anywhere near feasible to de-carbonize the world's economy in a 12 year timespan while maintaining the standard of living that we are accustomed to and also accommodating population growth.

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Tron_fdc

Pretty sure it was Germany that already went through this exercise and learned the hard way that you need to be able to cover baseload when renewables aren't running.

Germany's #### up came when they decommissioned nuclear plants as a baseload source because it was one of those weird overlaps between the green and coal lobbies.

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Maccalus

Most of the delays are regulatory framework related though, something that having creative governments who work together can improve. The federal government wants Alberta to decarbonize the grid, nuclear is a viable way to do that. Work together and get things done. Nuclear is only one option that that can and should be explored.

The global average is well below 15 years for nuclear plant construction.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/...rs-since-1981/

We don't have these "creative" governments though at either the provincial or federal level.

[Cappy]

I mean, there is some Trump/Kenny games in that:

Oh, i know an investor...

Oh, i have talked to people..

Sure you did.

Also, she is picking apart a very niche section of environmentalist who look at solely wind/solar. Of course we all know about baseload - but we have come to the conclusion that Nuclear is the option moving forward.

The province actually has the ability to push incentives that way - but, instead lets start mining more coal.

Also, it's a bit of a stretch to say Site "C" took 70 years to make.

The site was officially proposed to the BC Utilities Commission in the 1980's. There were several attempts to bring it back and then it was exempted in 2010 from further review to push it through.

The issue is Hydro is easily the most impactful energy project on the environment (not GHG) considering the extensive flooding etc. There were also massive treaty issues in the area.

Nuclear would not suffer from the same land-use issues.

[wireframe]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

This is what the discourse is becoming in Alberta, if one is to listen to people like Smith who tout "her experts" and David Parker, the TBA firebrand who touts populist and predictable right-wing schlock (and who is pulling the strings behind Smith). It's intellectualism versus populism. This whole 'grassroots, real Albertans, anti-woke' angle is really just an aggressive form of disagreement with the foundational and institutional beliefs in conventional science and academia.

The populists think they know something bleeding edge that is superior to the old way of doing things, which ironically involves moving backwards on agendas such as education, healthcare and individual rights.

I quoted his Tweet earlier, but there was a good exchange of thoughts between Max Fawcett and Parker on the Dean Blundell Show the other day. Fawcett brought receipts and facts, and Parker just shouted conspiracies, misinformation and insults. It's worth a watch.

To the populists credit, they're busy organizing their base and trying to take over school boards, constituency boards, and other 'behind the scenes' political apparatus. They're motivated and hungry. And progressives need to respond accordingly. Social media platforms also put many of their fringe views on display in the mainstream for all to consume.

Effectively the dude standing on the soapbox in Hyde Park shouting gibberish has been given a microphone and stage and put on equal footing.

But at the end of the day, if a kid with an incomplete view of the world wants to drive a car and force the licensed driver out, and they get actually in the driver seat, there's no guarantees their desire to drive the car isn't going to lead to fiery disaster.

There are plenty of educated, well-intentioned conservatives out there, and they absolutely need a place in community leadership. But those conservatives have been ousted by the loud voices on the populist right. It's like there's a Halloween mask that the conservatives can't seem to remove off their head and everyone can see it.

Smith plays into that populist rhetoric by being combative and shouting 'my experts' when challenged on basic points.

They obviously haven't been ousted. Look at election results. These people are blindly voting for conservatives that they (at least pretend) to disagree with.


The political story of the last decade has been conservative parties becoming more detached from reality to attract those voters who are proud to be stupid and the traditional conservative voting base happily following them without a second thought. Almost 75 million people voted for Donald Trump in 2020, for god's sake.

[Ozy_Flame]

Fair point.

Also, if I could describe the entire conservative movement at the moment, it would be "Jesus, Take the Wheel!"

[Cappy]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

This is what the discourse is becoming in Alberta, if one is to listen to people like Smith who tout "her experts" and David Parker, the TBA firebrand who touts populist and predictable right-wing schlock (and who is pulling the strings behind Smith). It's intellectualism versus populism. This whole 'grassroots, real Albertans, anti-woke' angle is really just an aggressive form of disagreement with the foundational and institutional beliefs in conventional science and academia.

The populists think they know something bleeding edge that is superior to the old way of doing things, which ironically involves moving backwards on agendas such as education, healthcare and individual rights.

I quoted his Tweet earlier, but there was a good exchange of thoughts between Max Fawcett and Parker on the Dean Blundell Show the other day. Fawcett brought receipts and facts, and Parker just shouted conspiracies, misinformation and insults. It's worth a watch.

To the populists credit, they're busy organizing their base and trying to take over school boards, constituency boards, and other 'behind the scenes' political apparatus. They're motivated and hungry. And progressives need to respond accordingly. Social media platforms also put many of their fringe views on display in the mainstream for all to consume.

Effectively the dude standing on the soapbox in Hyde Park shouting gibberish has been given a microphone and stage and put on equal footing.

But at the end of the day, if a kid with an incomplete view of the world wants to drive a car and force the licensed driver out, and they get actually in the driver seat, there's no guarantees their desire to drive the car isn't going to lead to fiery disaster.

There are plenty of educated, well-intentioned conservatives out there, and they absolutely need a place in community leadership. But those conservatives have been ousted by the loud voices on the populist right. It's like there's a Halloween mask that the conservatives can't seem to remove off their head and everyone can see it.

Smith plays into that populist rhetoric by being combative and shouting 'my experts' when challenged on basic points.

Ousted and co-opted.

I tend to think of someone like Maxine Bernier; who, prior to his CPC Leadership bid, i always thought of as a pretty sane person with some interesting ideas to reinvigorate the party (some ideas less so).

After the leadership race, he saw the opportunity and created the PPC, which has some bat#### crazy thoughts and ideas.

Which one of these is the real Bernier? I guess we will never know; but, he essentially went from an outcast in the CPC, to a leader in his own party collecting gobs of money from backward yokels in order to prolong his political career.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Zarley

No, I'm referring to the energy ignorance that pervades society. This net zero fantasy that otherwise intelligent people have bought into and the naive belief that it's anywhere near feasible to de-carbonize the world's economy in a 12 year timespan while maintaining the standard of living that we are accustomed to and also accommodating population growth.

This is the crux of the point that the mainstream doesn't get. Us people with the belief we need to decarbonize fast aren't under the impression that we can maintain the standard of living. Capitalism is unsustainable because it relys on infinite growth with finite resources.

We NEED to decarbonize. Every year we delay makes it worse on the planet. And yes that means we need to get over personal car ownership. We need to get over unlimited power and focuses on wattage as much as we focus on calories.

The serious discussion, is what are we willing to give up today in order to preserve a tomorrow for our children. Cons love to point to the spending of left wing governments and cry about the debt load on the children. Well I love to point to the fact that if we don't change very quickly, the debt load will be the least of the future generations worries.

And yes, I have a car, and a phone and I use them. I have no choice. What I like about pushing these short timelines is that it is going to force behavioural changes, and we won't like it. The western world today needs a heavy dose of medicine we don't like. And while the left is trying to shove it down our throats, the right just wants to plug their ears and say we can maintain what we have, just don't worry about it.

We cannot sustain our lifestyles right now, and we need to make hard choices. But it is much easier to listen to someone tell me how we don't need to change than someone telling me I do. Even when all of the evidence available says that if we don't, we are going to be in serious trouble in only a couple more generations.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by belsarius

We cannot sustain our lifestyles right now, and we need to make hard choices. But it is much easier to listen to someone tell me how we don't need to change than someone telling me I do. Even when all of the evidence available says that if we don't, we are going to be in serious trouble in only a couple more generations.

I assume a lot the criticism/resistance to an energy transition (which I am 100% for in a sustainable and reasonable way) is that it affects the 'standard of living', particularly of the upper-middle and upper classes (based in old wealth and often times wealth derived from resource-based industries). Those in these groups don't want to talk about this, because deep down, this - as you said - hints at affecting their quality of life, which is something they'll fight tooth and nail to avoid. Republicans basically pride themselves in maneuvering around this discussion. It really is the elephant in the room.

I agree with you - there needs to be a fundamental change in lifestyle to adjust to a newer, more sustainable reality which involves EVERYBODY making adjustments. It won't be easy, but it will be necessary, and the sooner we start having these discussions the sooner we can start adjusting to the new realities of the 21st century.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Fair point.

Also, if I could describe the entire conservative movement at the moment, it would be "Jesus, Take the Wheel!"

As opposed to the liberal “Jesus I’ve stolen the wheel.”

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Muta

Well, aside from the fact that the UCP lost the majority of Edmonton and Calgary last election (a trend that will continue in 2027), it's a badge of honor to know I didn't vote for the UCP. You need to stop being so hurt that many of us have tuned Smith out a long time ago.

I’m not hurt at all, unfortunately you have no voice in this Province.

[Tron_fdc]

Nah, I prefer "politicians have stolen the wheel, pieced out the car, handed you back a moped and charged you full price for a car and for use of the road".

Theft from politicians isn't partisan. They're ALL crooks.