2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[GioforPM]

It's all well and good to say "they haven't won, so we get to complain". But at least be honest about the complaints. You can't say "Treliving screws up UFA signings", and cite Neal and Brouwer, but ignore the two more recent big signings. well, you can, but it's not a fair complaint.

[CF84]

Carp and bellyache
A certainty for Flames fans
Will it ever end?

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Actually, I don't know anything of the kind. I've been here 16 years, and there seems to be a one-way ratchet effect. Any setback in the team's fortunes immediately makes the forum worse, but no improvement by the team ever seems to be enough to make it better.

lol

Maybe because this team never has any consistent improvement, as indicated by the fact that they've won one playoff series in 15 years.

Any sort of sustained success would certainly make the majority of the fans happy. Denying that is pretty idiotic.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It's all well and good to say "they haven't won, so we get to complain". But at least be honest about the complaints. You can't say "Treliving screws up UFA signings", and cite Neal and Brouwer, but ignore the two more recent big signings. well, you can, but it's not a fair complaint.

It's born out of frustration.

As I've said, this team is supposed to be at the apex of the rebuild. But because of a combination of bad luck and bad management, not only have they failed to build a legit contender, they've failed to build a team that even makes the playoffs consistently.

Sure, maybe some fans complain about things they shouldn't be, and some of those complaints don't make sense at times. I get that.

Building a winner and actually winning would make a lot of that go away though.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

lol

Oh, gosh, that's an absolute knockdown argument. Anybody who says ‘lol’ must obviously be right!

Any sort of sustained success would certainly make the majority of the fans happy. Denying that is pretty idiotic.

Show me the evidence that it would. Sustained failure hasn't stopped Oiler fans from being constantly optimistic. At this point, I don't see any evidence that anything will cure the negative posters on CP of being constantly pessimistic. Especially when some have explicitly said that the only ‘sustained success’ that will please them is a Stanley Cup win.

[Poe969]

Wow...I doubt there are many posters here who will only be happy if they win the cup. The toxicity around here is caused by the team constantly losing and the lack of direction because it seems so many fans (and the organization for that matter) have become complacent and OK with losing. Its getting to the point where it's actually kind of sad. It honestly seems like management and some fans puts more effort into coming up with excuses than anything else.

It's frustrating because the Flames are slowly turning into one of the more pathetic teams. Same core, same results and every year outsiders are saying they should change but the team sticks with it and then gets...the same results! But no, no...this year will be different!

People say change for the sake of change is bad...it really isn't though. They have been spinning their wheels for so long that everyone else can see its not working. To be honest, it wouldn't even take winning to make me happy. I'd be fine with then losing as long as they tried something different.

Most of us are just tired of seeing practically the same team trotted out every year with the same results and the same excuses.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Show me the evidence that it would. Sustained failure hasn't stopped Oiler fans from being constantly optimistic. At this point, I don't see any evidence that anything will cure the negative posters on CP of being constantly pessimistic. Especially when some have explicitly said that the only ‘sustained success’ that will please them is a Stanley Cup win.

When the Flames played a half season of first place, exciting hockey the fans were ecstatic.

When the Flames were exciting and tried under Hartley the fans were fine.

People have become very jaded - and rightfully so.

Has it swung too far? I would say yes. But it is no worse/biased then people who always respond "Wait until we see how it turns out"

Obviously no one knows how any move will turn out - But past evidence by the same ownership and management group gives me an idea of where I would place my bets

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

When the Flames played a half season of first place, exciting hockey the fans were ecstatic.

When the Flames were exciting and tried under Hartley the fans were fine.

People have become very jaded - and rightfully so.

Has it swung too far? I would say yes. But it is no worse/biased then people who always respond "Wait until we see how it turns out"

Obviously no one knows how any move will turn out - But past evidence by the same ownership and management group gives me an idea of where I would place my bets

People keep saying this, but really, out of 4 years the site was really only happy for one. There's a lot of false memory now where people say "even the next year when they lost I was happy because they tried". Except they didn't try all the time and no, people were pretty unhappy. There were not many "moral victory" posts.

[Wolfman]

Originally Posted by Harry Lime

In this years draft, I see a lot of chance and parity in the players past the #10. I have an idea for a trade between two teams with different needs and expectations. Calgary has to take some chances in order to improve. In my mind that means acquiring some high risk/high reward assets. Minnesota has already gone down that route, and are more in a position to augment through more proven players.

To Calgary
Ivan Lodnia (RHRW, natural scorer with defensive game that's rounding in. Needs a year in the AHL, but could be a callup.)
Ryan Hartman (RHRW, prototypical thirdliner. Sutter player.)
#22
#26
2022 2nd (that becomes a first if the Wild reach the finals)

To Minnesota
Sean Monahan
#12

Via Pronman, the Flames picks would be Fabian Lysell and Oscar Olausson.
Via Wheeler, the Flames picks would be Corson Ceulemans and Mackie Samoskevich.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

Oh, gosh, that's an absolute knockdown argument. Anybody who says ‘lol’ must obviously be right!



Show me the evidence that it would. Sustained failure hasn't stopped Oiler fans from being constantly optimistic. At this point, I don't see any evidence that anything will cure the negative posters on CP of being constantly pessimistic. Especially when some have explicitly said that the only ‘sustained success’ that will please them is a Stanley Cup win.

Saying "lol" doesn't make me right, and it certainly doesn't make you right.

I just found what you posted ridiculous and thought it was funny.

I'm not going to waste my time arguing over whether the board overall would improve if the Flames would actually win something, I know for a fact MY mood would improve if they did though.

And I certainly don't think you complaining about the complaining is helping anything either.

[bdubbs]

Honest question, if the Flames were like the Sharks back in their heyday, would we be satisfied? I want to say yes myself, but maybe the expectations would drive me to dark places anyways...

[howard_the_duck]

Originally Posted by bdubbs

Honest question, if the Flames were like the Sharks back in their heyday, would we be satisfied? I want to say yes myself, but maybe the expectations would drive me to dark places anyways...

I think you’d have people complaining still but not to the same degree. Being in that constant 4-6 team conversation to win the cup is a feat in itself. It takes a good amount of luck to win the big prize. Building a contender and maximizing that contention window is the most management can do IMO.

[dammage79]

Consistent participants in conference finals? Yeah I'd be pretty happy. That really should be an organizational mandate. Problem is, either the GM or ownership are too shortsighted and overspend draft capital for minimal gains in the short term.

That Hamonic trade really screwed the build. It really is the 9ne that sent things off the rails.

[Poe969]

I would rather be stuck near the top than stuck in the middle...with you!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Poe969

I would rather be stuck near the top than stuck in the middle...with you!

It's the clowns to the left of me, and the jokers to the right, that are the biggest issue.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by bdubbs

Honest question, if the Flames were like the Sharks back in their heyday, would we be satisfied? I want to say yes myself, but maybe the expectations would drive me to dark places anyways...

Good question.

I'd be pissed that we never won a Cup with those teams, but that goes back to the "luck" element and not incompetent management. The Sharks management team built a legit contender that was around for years at least.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

As I've said, this team is supposed to be at the apex of the rebuild. But because of a combination of bad luck and bad management, not only have they failed to build a legit contender, they've failed to build a team that even makes the playoffs consistently.

I sometimes wonder just how old the average CP poster is. ‘Making the playoffs consistently’ is a damned hard thing to do now. A lot of people talk about it as if this were still 1990, when 16 out of 21 teams made the dance and you almost had to suck on purpose to miss.

An average team will make the playoffs half the time and miss half the time. The Flames are an average team that has had some bizarrely bad breaks in the postseason. A lot of people here talk as if they were the worst franchise in the entire league. They're not even close.

Who would you rather cheer for: the Flames, who at least make the playoffs half the time, or the Sabres, who are consistent bottom-feeders? The Flames or the Coyotes, who are perpetually bankrupt and make all their deals to cut costs and aren't even trying to win? Or the Leafs, who have been making the playoffs regularly of late, but have overspent so badly on three big stars that they are forced to skimp on everything else, and have actually gone longer without a series win than the Flames have? Or, God help us, the Oilers?

A number of things have gone badly in the last couple of years, not only for the Flames but for the league and the world. It's a frustrating time to be a Flames fan. But why, in the name of sanity, is that a reason to make up more reasons for being angry?

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

I sometimes wonder just how old the average CP poster is. ‘Making the playoffs consistently’ is a damned hard thing to do now. A lot of people talk about it as if this were still 1990, when 16 out of 21 teams made the dance and you almost had to suck on purpose to miss.

An average team will make the playoffs half the time and miss half the time. The Flames are an average team that has had some bizarrely bad breaks in the postseason. A lot of people here talk as if they were the worst franchise in the entire league. They're not even close.

Who would you rather cheer for: the Flames, who at least make the playoffs half the time, or the Sabres, who are consistent bottom-feeders? The Flames or the Coyotes, who are perpetually bankrupt and make all their deals to cut costs and aren't even trying to win? Or the Leafs, who have been making the playoffs regularly of late, but have overspent so badly on three big stars that they are forced to skimp on everything else, and have actually gone longer without a series win than the Flames have? Or, God help us, the Oilers?

A number of things have gone badly in the last couple of years, not only for the Flames but for the league and the world. It's a frustrating time to be a Flames fan. But why, in the name of sanity, is that a reason to make up more reasons for being angry?

This is the problem. The Flames have not been an average team over the past 15 years.

Why is my option the Flames or the three other franchises that have been just as bad?

It reminds me of anyone who questions the Canadian health care system and gets the response "Would you rather be the US" - Why are my only options terrible and more terrible?

Is that what we are aiming for? Not the worst!

The Flames have been terrible the past 15 years by almost any metric when looked at as a whole

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

People keep saying this, but really, out of 4 years the site was really only happy for one. There's a lot of false memory now where people say "even the next year when they lost I was happy because they tried". Except they didn't try all the time and no, people were pretty unhappy. There were not many "moral victory" posts.

That's why I said "When" - and not "For the entirety of the Hartley years

My point is in the past decade there have basically been 1.5 years of 'excitement' - And the fans didn't complain and moan

There's a reason when we made our run in 2004 we were the craziest celebration town and loudest arena. We are starved for ANY success.

[Strange Brew]

Bizarrely bad breaks? Going to have to disagree.
Flames are better than Sabres, Oilers or Coyotes. Agreed.

Is there any way to dedicate a thread for complaints of all kinds and move on to debating actual hockey related topics? Or maybe only allow someone to pay the same thought x times per day?