Brad Treliving needs to go

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Obviously the turnaround time is significant, but if it takes 5-7 years from the moment you trade your stars for futures, then the rebuild is in rough shape at that point.

But you are putting words in my mouth and arguing things I haven't said regarding the Leafs having a 'quick' rebuild. At the same time, you can't measure the beginning and end of a rebuild based off of years between series wins.

The Leafs took a fundamental change in direction when Dubas took over as GM.

I didn’t put words in your mouth but I do think I misunderstood your initial point.

Are you confusin Dubas with Shanahan? You are referring to the Shanaplan right?

Dubas has been GM for 2 years and wasn’t in charge when the drafted Marner or Matthews he was in a Conroy role during that time.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

He won a cup in LA thanks to Darryl but he also created the mess they are still trying to dig themselves out of.

You wouldn't trade the mess the Kings have for one Stanley Cup? Let alone two?

Lombardi had an impressive draft history with the Sharks, let alone the Kings.

Edit:Fact check.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I didn’t put words in your mouth but I do think I misunderstood your initial point.

Are you confusin Dubas with Shanahan? You are referring to the Shanaplan right?

Dubas has been GM for 2 years and wasn’t in charge when the drafted Marner or Matthews he was in a Conroy role during that time.

I may be mistaking the timeline when Dubas took over as GM. I may instead mean when Dubas came in as AGM.

[zamler]

If the Flames had 2 Cups in the last 10 years we'd be over the moon. What a bizarre take.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by zamler

If the Flames had 2 Cups in the last 10 years we'd be over the moon. What a bizarre take.

It's not bizarre at all. Feaster won a cup as GM as well. What did his tenure as Flames GM deliver? He badly mismanaged the Kings salary cap and even after the slimy way he dealt with Mike Richards they were still a massive mess. I fail to see how he's a great option to get the Flames out of this current mess considering he couldn't do that in LA.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's not bizarre at all. Feaster won a cup as GM as well. What did his tenure as Flames GM deliver? He badly mismanaged the Kings salary cap and that's counting the slimy way he dealt with Mike Richards. I fail to see how he's a great option to get the Flames out of this current mess considering he couldn't do that in LA.

Big difference there is Feaster didn’t really build the Lightning. He didn’t bring in any of their star players.

Lombardi did make the mistake of being loyal to some of those players when he could have cut bait but he did put that entire team together.

[Major Major]

Freidman reported in 2018 that Lombardi was courted by the Canucks when they hired Linden but he had 3 years left in a no out clause from his Flyers contract.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/...e-job-canucks/

It is entirely possible that he only now has an option to work for another team. I have no idea why someone like that would accept such a bad contract. Perhaps he was led to believe that he would be an eventual hire after Hextal or there was a path to POHO. Obviously, that didn't happen. In fact, he is no longer listed on the Flyers page as an executive. It would seem like he did not survive the regime change, but still may have been living with that terrible contract.

This doesn't scream "deemed irrelevant by the hockey world" but more like "made a power play and lost and is only now allowed to work for another team."

Anyhow, he built 2 programs from the ground up to be successful and in the Kings case elite. That's 2/2. His drafting and trades were good. Coach hires met the moment. He would come in and be in lock step with Sutter. Build a team that he can use to jam down the other team's throat, please. Big, fast, physical, defensive... Sign me up.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Big difference there is Feaster didn’t really build the Lightning. He didn’t bring in any of their star players.

Lombardi did make the mistake of being loyal to some of those players when he could have cut bait but he did put that entire team together.

For the record I never said the Flames shouldn't hire him and simply noted that he's no sure thing as GM. Managing the salary cap is one of the GM's main duties and he was terrible at that.

[VladtheImpaler]

As the FAN guys pointed out correctly this morning, the owners need this team to be peaking in 2024 to justify the gouging that they have planned for the STH's. They would ideally want a playoff run the spring before the new building opens for the following season. What can this team do to be in position to contend in 3 years?
There is also the second option - the Oilers' way - continue sucking, but luck into Wright and/or Bedard(?). Having the "next one" would also be good for a new building. However, it is hard to luck into a 1st overall (again, unless you are the Oilers).
Realistically, therefore, the plan, as needed by the ownership, will have to aim to peak in 3-4 years. What can you do to achieve that?

[bubbsy]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

It's not bizarre at all. Feaster won a cup as GM as well. What did his tenure as Flames GM deliver? He badly mismanaged the Kings salary cap and even after the slimy way he dealt with Mike Richards they were still a massive mess. I fail to see how he's a great option to get the Flames out of this current mess considering he couldn't do that in LA.

Feaster and sutter have contributed more to this team's actual core than Brad treliving has.

Monahan, gaudreau, backlund, Giordano, Brodie all thanks to the previous regime.

7 years in now Brad... U sucked Ur way into tkachuk, and 1 actual trade tree being worth it (getting Lindholm and Hanafin). This gm has no idea on how to build a roster. Many have been saying this since the 2018 trade deadline, and here we are 3 years later.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

As the FAN guys pointed out correctly this morning, the owners need this team to be peaking in 2024 to justify the gouging that they have planned for the STH's. They would ideally want a playoff run the spring before the new building opens for the following season. What can this team do to be in position to contend in 3 years?
There is also the second option - the Oilers' way - continue sucking, but luck into Wright and/or Bedard(?). Having the "next one" would also be good for a new building. However, it is hard to luck into a 1st overall (again, unless you are the Oilers).
Realistically, therefore, the plan, as needed by the ownership, will have to aim to peak in 3-4 years. What can you do to achieve that?

Zach Benson is also looking very strong as a 2023 draft eligible pick.

Nobody at McDavid's level, but there's a lot of players coming up after this draft that you can build a team around. You don't necessarily need the #1 pick.

[Joborule]

Originally Posted by VladtheImpaler

As the FAN guys pointed out correctly this morning, the owners need this team to be peaking in 2024 to justify the gouging that they have planned for the STH's. They would ideally want a playoff run the spring before the new building opens for the following season. What can this team do to be in position to contend in 3 years?
There is also the second option - the Oilers' way - continue sucking, but luck into Wright and/or Bedard(?). Having the "next one" would also be good for a new building. However, it is hard to luck into a 1st overall (again, unless you are the Oilers).
Realistically, therefore, the plan, as needed by the ownership, will have to aim to peak in 3-4 years. What can you do to achieve that?

Blowing up now and committing to the rebuild is the greatest chance of not just being competitive in a playoff sense, but also improving. The team could ideally be a young roster that just enter their competitor window when the new venue is open. The selling of promise will make it very easier for the fanbase to eat up the increase in ticket prices.

Flames owners would be wise to do that rather than meander in the state of limbo of not good enough to win the cup, not bad enough to be a lottery pick when entering the new arena.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Rebuilds aren't 5-7 years. Look at what the Leafs did...

What are you talking about? William Nylander was a top-ten pick eight years ago, and was the first of three-straight years of bottoming out that culminated in the #1 pick in 2016. It takes a long time to rebuild a team through the draft.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Joborule

Flames owners would be wise to do that rather than meander in the state of limbo of not good enough to win the cup, not bad enough to be a lottery pick when entering the new arena.

Which is exactly why they won’t. Has Flames ownership shown any sign they recognize this is a cyclical league? The marching orders from on high in this franchise are just make the playoffs and see if you can go on a run. Mediocrity is the plan.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

What are you talking about? William Nylander was a top-ten pick eight years ago, and was the first of three-straight years of bottoming out that culminated in the #1 pick in 2016. It takes a long ti.e to rebuild z team through the draft.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

Well, if you are including Nylander or Rielly in the Leafs rebuild, you could say the same about Tkachuk regarding the Flames if we started out rebuild today. Some of the pieces are already here. But if the Flames did trade away Gaudreau/Monahan/Gio/anyone over 25, so can't trade everybody.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

Feaster and sutter have contributed more to this team's actual core than Brad treliving has.

Monahan, gaudreau, backlund, Giordano, Brodie all thanks to the previous regime.

7 years in now Brad... U sucked Ur way into tkachuk, and 1 actual trade tree being worth it (getting Lindholm and Hanafin). This gm has no idea on how to build a roster. Many have been saying this since the 2018 trade deadline, and here we are 3 years later.

2018 trade deadline was prior to his Lindholm and Hanifin trade.

I would argue Lindholm, Hanifin, Tkachuk, Mangiapane, Andersson, Dube, Valimaki are more important pieces of the core than the list you have above (which includes Brodie for some reason?).

I think Treliving’s biggest failure was believing the Monahan-Gaudreau-Tkachuk-Lindholm core of forwards were good enough to win a cup. Those players peaked 2 years ago and it was more of a flash in the pan than a sign of things to come which is disappointing when talking about players aged 21, 24, 24, 25

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Well, if you are including Nylander or Rielly in the Leafs rebuild, you could say the same about Tkachuk regarding the Flames if we started out rebuild today. Some of the pieces are already here. But if the Flames did trade away Gaudreau/Monahan/Gio/anyone over 25, so can't trade everybody.

If you take Nylander out, then that is seven years of rebuilding to get to where the Leafs are today. I understood the point to be that rebuilding can occur within a few years, and this us simply false. If this is the route taken by tbe Flames, then it is at best a five-year process, but more than likely will take longer.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

If you take Nylander out, then that is seven years of rebuilding to get to where the Leafs are today. I understood the point to be that rebuilding can occur within a few years, and this us simply false. If this is the route taken by tbe Flames, then it is at best a five-year process, but more than likely will take longer.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

If the Flames trade every single roster player, including younger players like Tkachuk, Mangiapane, Valimaki, etc. Yes, it would probably take 5-7 years.

But rebuilds are not exactly linear. We saw how the Avs went from progressing one season, to falling back for a couple, to now being a juggernaut in the league.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

If the Flames trade every single roster player, including younger players like Tkachuk, Mangiapane, Valimaki, etc. Yes, it would probably take 5-7 years.



But rebuilds are not exactly linear. We saw how the Avs went from progressing one season, to falling back for a couple, to now being a juggernaut in the league.

Between 2009-13 Colorado drafted in the top-three three times. They were rebuilding already well over ten years ago.

It takes a long, long time, and a lot of good fortune.

Sent from my SM-G960W using Tapatalk

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by gt4flames

Tre has done his best. He has made some judgement calls that in premise are winners...
...on the stat sheet...its a wash.

I realize that we wouldnt have Lindholm without fox being a throw in on the trade, but this team would be very different had Bennett and Fox both panned out as planned. Fox right now is a top 10 D man for the Rangers. He has 11 points in 4 games last week.

If Bennett is 75% of what Draisatlis, and Fox Signs with the flames this team is very different...
...But they aren't and didn't...Here we are 5 coaches later and the reality is this team sucks.

Hall after being drafted #1 had 5 coaches in his 7 season in Edmonton.

...All of that is on the GM

A good GM is not judged by missed picks and things out of his control like you've mentioned. A good GM knows how to pivot, and when to evaluate players.

When Treliving sat repeatedly on moving players like Monahan, Bennett for as long as he did (and is now doing with Gaudreau), it was an absolute gut punch to this organization. How do you come back into this season with both of these guys who had clearly regressed and/or had been overvalued to begin with? He killed any remaining value and sent a message to the team that this kind of mediocre play is tolerated.

You also have to ask how you continue to miss on evaluating guys like Brouwer, Neal, Stone and Hamonic so badly. They seem like miniscule moves, but they cost the franchise serious cap space and significant draft capital that continues to ripple through to today's roster and its ability to upgrade the top 6 RW position.