[Trade] Elias Lindholm + Noah Hanifin to Flames for D. Hamilton, Micheal Ferland, & Adam Fox

[Gaudreau is a Ninja]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Unless I'm mistaken, AC archives all of the Flames' games so he can make the videos at the end of the year but he does not archive games for other teams.

Too bad I would have loved to watch some AC quality videos of Hanivin and Lindholm. Love the trade and can't wait to see what else Tre does this summer👍

[Mike F]

Originally Posted by Itse

Comments from Hurricanes fans about Lindholm and Hanifin. Very little positive for a Flames fan honestly.

TL,DR version:

- Literally no one said they'll miss Lindholm, regardless of whether they liked him or the trade.
- Hanifin apparently wasn't interested in staying in Carolina.
- Also no love for Peters in Carolina

LINDHOLM STUFF:

As I posted earlier, Lindholm's draft profile said "One area of improvement for Lindholm with the puck would be his ability to finish off plays. He gets very good chances around the net, but just does not seem to be able to score on them as often as he should, and he should also try to look to shoot more often".

This is supposed to be the guy to add goal scoring to the #1 line???

As I concluded before, Treliving has gone through 2 off seasons and shipped out a 1st, two 2nds, Dougie Hamilton, Ferland, and Fox, and still hasn't conclusively dealt with the lack of scoring from RW; the team is still in a position of simply hoping a player can step up to a level he's never met before. That's way too many high quality assets out the door to not feel confident that the team has solved its RW scoring issues.

[Beninho]

Originally Posted by Mike F

As I posted earlier, Lindholm's draft profile said "One area of improvement for Lindholm with the puck would be his ability to finish off plays. He gets very good chances around the net, but just does not seem to be able to score on them as often as he should, and he should also try to look to shoot more often".

This is supposed to be the guy to add goal scoring to the #1 line???

As I concluded before, Treliving has gone through 2 off seasons and shipped out a 1st, two 2nds, Dougie Hamilton, Ferland, and Fox, and still hasn't conclusively dealt with the lack of scoring from RW; the team is still in a position of simply hoping a player can step up to a level he's never met before. That's way too many high quality assets out the door to not feel confident that the team has solved its RW scoring issues.

Top line doesn’t need a pure scorer, there is a one already on it and another guy whose scored 30 goals. They need another high IQ player that can play in both ends, that line did get hemmed in at times this year and Ferland is pretty bad in his own end. Remember what they did with Hudler? Flames added much needed skill, skill that Ferland does not have. I think this will be the first time that line has a legit top 6 player on the RW. I’m surprised others don’t see how beneficial this could be for Johnny and mony. Johnny had to do a lot of heavy lifting on that line as both Monahan and Ferland rely on Johnny to set them up, having another creative player on the top line will allow for Gaudreau to not always have to be the one creating everything.

[The Professor]

Personally I'm a fan of the trade. I'm hopeful it'll make us a better team now and in the long run but the reality is, no one can actually know that conclusively and to argue so vehemently is silly.

The other thing that irks me is how both sides feel they have to prove that one side is wrong, and that one set of acquired players is terrible. Isn't it possible that both teams got really good players? That no one "won" the trade until we see what the players actually achieve with their talents and new environments.

My 2 cents

[calgarygeologist]

Originally Posted by Mike F

As I posted earlier, Lindholm's draft profile said "One area of improvement for Lindholm with the puck would be his ability to finish off plays. He gets very good chances around the net, but just does not seem to be able to score on them as often as he should, and he should also try to look to shoot more often".

This is supposed to be the guy to add goal scoring to the #1 line???

As I concluded before, Treliving has gone through 2 off seasons and shipped out a 1st, two 2nds, Dougie Hamilton, Ferland, and Fox, and still hasn't conclusively dealt with the lack of scoring from RW; the team is still in a position of simply hoping a player can step up to a level he's never met before. That's way too many high quality assets out the door to not feel confident that the team has solved its RW scoring issues.

That almost sounds like Johnny as well. Great with the puck, great vision and passing but he lacks scoring ability. Last season Johnny seemed to be especially gun-shy and he just didn't want to shoot the puck anymore.

[rhino]

Originally Posted by Mike F

As I posted earlier, Lindholm's draft profile said "One area of improvement for Lindholm with the puck would be his ability to finish off plays. He gets very good chances around the net, but just does not seem to be able to score on them as often as he should, and he should also try to look to shoot more often".

This is supposed to be the guy to add goal scoring to the #1 line???

As I concluded before, Treliving has gone through 2 off seasons and shipped out a 1st, two 2nds, Dougie Hamilton, Ferland, and Fox, and still hasn't conclusively dealt with the lack of scoring from RW; the team is still in a position of simply hoping a player can step up to a level he's never met before. That's way too many high quality assets out the door to not feel confident that the team has solved its RW scoring issues.

Can we wait until the season begins before we say he hasn’t addressed anything?? There is tons of cap room and months before the season begins.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by nik-

This assumes they just sit on Ferlands expiring year and do nothing and that a 3rd or a 4th for Fox next summer doesn't happen. Both are unlikely.

They wouldn't deal Ferland if they were in a playoff spot.

To me it's let him walk, or sign him for an extension at too high a ticket.

[Dion]

Everyone focuses too much on the table talk at the poker game. "That dude says he has aces!"

All we can do is watch the hand play out... and this year's hand isn't even at the flop yet.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by Mike F

As I posted earlier, Lindholm's draft profile said "One area of improvement for Lindholm with the puck would be his ability to finish off plays. He gets very good chances around the net, but just does not seem to be able to score on them as often as he should, and he should also try to look to shoot more often".

This is supposed to be the guy to add goal scoring to the #1 line???

As I concluded before, Treliving has gone through 2 off seasons and shipped out a 1st, two 2nds, Dougie Hamilton, Ferland, and Fox, and still hasn't conclusively dealt with the lack of scoring from RW; the team is still in a position of simply hoping a player can step up to a level he's never met before. That's way too many high quality assets out the door to not feel confident that the team has solved its RW scoring issues.

Any way you cut it, Lindholm/Foo/Frolik/Lazar is miles ahead of Ferland/Frolik/Brouwer/Hathaway in terms of RW depth. And yes, I think that within a year Foo will be a bigger offensive force than Frolik.

The only RW left on the market that I would take over Lindholm/Foo right now is Kessel. JVR and Neal and the like... I would pass for contract reasons and that the offensive output would only be slightly more than what Lindholm/Foo can deliver.

[ResAlien]

Best case Ontario is that Lindholm becomes the 2nd line C we need and a legit RW is brought in. His pedigree doesn’t seem to profile as a scoring winger but maybe he can be Anson Carter for Johnny and Monahan if the plan is to plug him in on the top line.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

I know some will consider this ancient history but here are Hanifin's and Lindholm's scouting reports from years back. May help some of us who haven't seen them much get an idea of their style of game and their upside. Can't seem to find as many reports on Hanifin, I either misplaced my scouting guides or I didn't buy as many that year.

HANIFIN

From Future Considerations

STRENGTHS: Hanifin is a steady, mobile two-way defenseman who loves the offensive side of the game. The one thing he showed time and time again this season and last is that he thinks the game well years beyond his age. He processes it at a very high level and possesses the skills to be able to do what he wants to do in all zones. He is very confident with the puck on his stick and loves to rush the puck himself or join in on the rush. In the defensive zone, he uses his big frame and long stick well. He always leads with his stick to deflect shots/passes off the opposition’s sticks. A gifted, smooth skating defenseman, Hanifin has a good first step and is mobile in all facets of the game. He shows his pro-ready vision and puck smarts on every shift. He plays tough in the corners and in front of the net. He is almost always in the correct position. He has an extremely long reach and uses it well to break up rushes and take away passing lanes. On the rare occasion that he makes a mistake, his calmness and poise allows him to get back in position and play like nothing happened. When his passes do get intercepted or there is a turnover he is quick to instantly apply pressure to his man and limit him from gaining any meaningful ground. His poise is also on display when he has the puck. His passing ability is very impressive; always tape-to-tape, whether the player is in motion or stationary. His shot is also incredibly hard and accurate; a real weapon on the powerplay. Has the size, speed, skill, and smarts at both ends of the ice that allows him to have success. Makes strong reads of the developing play and creates opportunity to get the puck going in the proper direction.

WEAKNESSES: While not really a weakness, it should be noted that Hanifin does not play a very physical game. He has no problem with using his strength to pin an attacker along the wall or close someone off when they try to carry the puck past him but do not look for him to lead the physical game with a big hit or by dropping the gloves. One other thing is that he can over handle the puck on the rush at times. It does not cost him in terms of turning over the puck, but it is an unnecessary risky trait that could be exploited at the NHL level.

SCOUTS QUOTE: “Hanifan is exactly what you look for in a defenseman with franchise defenseman potential. He is a complete defenseman with no glaring weakness. His skating is extremely fluid. He loves to rush the puck and his slick hands make it look like he does it with ease. He is a rock in the defensive zone. He has the potential to be the best American born defenseman in many years. I would take him at number three in June, and if he falls, he will become a pretty big steal for somebody.”

NHL POTENTIAL: Cornerstone Top Pairing Two-Way Defenseman.

LINDHOLM

From Redline Report

"Brings an extreme intensity and sense of urgency to every shift that has been likened to countryman Peter Forsberg. Ultra-competitive and has the drive and special skills to be that type of player. Only average size, but wins a ton of corner battles through sheer determination and comes driving out straight to net with power moves. Has the ability to freeze defenders and seemingly sees every developing play at slow-motion speed, while all others are viewing in fast forward mode. Creative playmaker with marvelous imagination and is highly opportunistic around the cage. More of a set-up guy than finisher, and we’d like to see him shoot the puck a bit more, but he’ll pick up his share of goals by constantly being in scoring areas. At his best playing in the tough, high traffic areas and contests every loose puck. Responsible defensively and plays well away from the puck.

Projection: Strong first line centre

Style compares to: Michael Peca"

From Future Considerations

STRENGTHS: Lindholm has great overall mobility. He moves quick in any direction and has superb acceleration. He does not over-skate situations which some other juniors tend to do. He’s very agile, being able to twist and turn in and out of traffic while using the other tools in his toolbox to create offense. He’s got very good balance, which will help him make up for any physical shortcomings when it comes to protecting the puck and battling for it along the boards. Skating is definitely not his most impressive asset as a hockey player, but nonetheless, his skating helps make Lindholm the complete package he is. His top asset is his vision/smarts/decision-making as Lindholm sees the ice like few others, not only for passing purposes but also in his ability to see the game unfold. He has a great understanding of when to distribute the puck and when to hold on to it a bit longer and look for a better option. Lindholm has a decent frame and uses it well. He isn’t a hard-hitter but he does for sure try to finish his checks regularly and he isn’t afraid of entering the gritty areas. He protects the puck extremely well, has got great hand eye coordination and can handle the puck at a high speed and in tough traffic. He can control the play even when tightly checked along the boards, can play an up-tempo give-and-go style of play down low to make use of his linemates and create opportunities. Lindholm sees the ice extremely well and displays high intelligence in his decision-making. He doesn’t possess the heaviest of shots but is able to shoot intelligently and make the right decisions when to fire the puck. He gets his shots off quickly and they are very accurate. Defensively he backchecks, understanding his assignment, reads the play well and always tries to make himself available for a pass, especially helping his d-men out nicely in their own zone. While he always tries finishing checks, battling hard along the boards, he is not a punishing player and will never be a bruising hitter. He’s strong on his skates, so he can protect the puck, and be relatively successful in board battles as well as scrambles around the crease but succeeds because of his oft-mentioned smartness.

WEAKNESSES: Another one of the highly regarded prospect with little weakness or downside to his game, Lindholm is seen as a prospect that will fill a two-way role similar to a Henrik Zetterberg or Patrice Bergeron as his highest ceiling in the NHL and lacks maybe a little in the offensive flash and dash teams could be looking for with a top-10 selection. Like most youngsters, strength to his frame and consistent efforts from shift-to-shift will need to improve.

SCOUTS QUOTE: “Elias is one of those rare kinds of prospects who you do not fully appreciate until you focus on him for a longer stretch and notice his hockey sense, all the intelligent split second decisions he makes consistently throughout a contest.”

NHL POTENTIAL: Top Line Two-Way Forward

From ISS

Size/Strength GOOD
Skating VERY GOOD
Puck Skills GOOD
Shot VERY GOOD
Offensive Play VERY GOOD
Defensive Play VERY GOOD
Physical Play VERY GOOD
Competitiveness EXCELLENT
Hockey Sense EXCELLENT

Strengths
1. Work Ethic
2. High Hockey IQ
3. Leader

Weaknesses:
1. Needs to get stronger
2. Footspeed/Quickness

Skill: A gritty and hard-working two-way player who makes his entire team better every shift he takes.

Scouting Report: There is very little, if anything at all not to like about Elias Lindholm. He can do a bit of everything and he can do it all very well. While perhaps not an elite offensive producer (yet) he has the desire and drive, and talent, to create lot of offensive opportunities. He excels off transition and is a master at creating turnovers and forcing opponents to make mistakes. He has great hands, especially around the net, is a dynamite faceoff presence and is always engaging opponents in battles. Lindholm has future captain written all over him. He brings it every single shift and can be dominant in all situations. He has some surprising power for his size.

NHL Potential: 2nd line player who can be relied on in the most crucial situations.

Style compares to: Zach Parise

[AC]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Unless I'm mistaken, AC archives all of the Flames' games so he can make the videos at the end of the year but he does not archive games for other teams.

Yeah exactly. I'd have to go back and download then filter through the Carolina games. Probably not going to happen, but I'll see where I sit when I'm done my planned Flames videos.

[Mista_Incognito]

Saw this article comparing Ryan O’Reilly and Elias Lindholm using advanced metrics.

With Lindholm, the Hurricanes’ power play enjoyed a heavy dose of shot generation in front of the net, and from the top of the faceoff circle — fairly dangerous shooting areas.

The first standout on Lindholm’s PK heatmap is the ice right in the middle slot and faceoff areas being nearly devoid of opposition shots.

A quick glance at their five-on-five shot generation might also tip the scales just a little bit more, as Lindholm overall appears to generate more in the dangerous areas, and his team struggles to do the same while he’s off the ice.

I would have to agree that Elias Lindholm > Ryan O’Reilly

[Monahammer]

Gaudreau-Monahan- JVR/Perron
Bennett-Lindholm-Tkachuk
Jankowski-Backlund-frolik

That would be an interesting top 9.

[868904]

Originally Posted by BrownDrake

Lindholm has been getting second line minutes and on the second power play unit. Over the past 3 seasons he has 17 less points than Backlund has playing 10 less games. IMO he has had worse line mates than Backlund over that period. He is 6 years younger than Backlund.

I am really happy we got Lindholm, I can’t see how he doesn’t become a 60 Point winger playing on our first line and getting more power play time.

I think Lindholm's offense will improve in the future. I don't think he's going to be a 70 - 90 point type guy though.

Honestly, right now, he's Mikael Backlund. Even if you just slot him in at centre, we've basically added another Backlund. We all know how valuable Backlund is and how he impacts the game not just on the score sheet.

You can't compare 40 points from a winger with 40 points from a two way centre. The impact from the centre is greater than the winger. It's why centres are a premium position relative to wingers. Some of you are way too hung up on the winger thing.

The Flames didn't miss the playoffs because they lacked another high end winger.

[dfsflamesfan]

Some interesting tidbits in the article here: https://www.canescountry.com/2018/5/...draft-signings

Lindholm:

Starting at the top, Elias Lindholm has more than earned a contract extension with his 2017-18 season. He transitioned back to his natural center position and played very well. He has really matured as player and, while he isn’t the first-line center that some hoped he would be in 2013, he has carved out his own game and is far from a “bust”. He is coming off of a two-year bridge deal, so he may be in line for a bigger deal - maybe four years at around $4.5 million. I think the fact that Victor Rask is making $4 million will give Lindy some leverage and should get him some extra money.

Hanifin:

Noah Hanifin is the big fish here. He was an all-star last season, thanks mostly to circumstance, but he had a great first half. His second half, however, was not great, but he still did finish with 32 points. How much of his struggles were his fault and how much of the blame lied on now ex-head coach Bill Peters? I can’t answer that, but I still fully believe in Hanifin’s upside. It wasn’t even three years ago when many people were absolutely stunned that he dropped to number five for Carolina, in similar fashion to how Seth Jones dropped to Nashville in 2013.

Like Jones, Hanifin’s first three years haven’t been overwhelmingly great, but Seth Jones was one of the very best defensemen in the league this year, and the Hurricanes shouldn’t get impatient with Hanifin as he could, very easily, become that kind of player.

I could see these negotiations being difficult. Hanifin will likely want a longterm deal, but the Canes might not comply. He doesn’t have arbitration rights yet, so I think he does ultimately get a bridge deal in the two-year, $3.5 million ballpark.

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Bingo

They wouldn't deal Ferland if they were in a playoff spot.

To me it's let him walk, or sign him for an extension at too high a ticket.

Or trade him in another deal this summer? Treating him as a current UFA and therefore having no value in order to analyze this trade is odd, because it's not a situation that exists. It's simply one that could if they do nothing.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by nik-

Or trade him in another deal? Treating him as a current UFA and therefore having no value in order to analyze this trade is odd, because it's not a situation that exists, simply one that could if they do nothing.

Again if you trade him on another deal this deal doesn’t happen. He had value and it was used to acquire these players. But him being one year away from free agency impacts what he is worth in this deal or any deal
B

[nik-]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Again if you trade him on another deal this deal doesn’t happen. He had value and it was used to acquire these players

Right, but you said we're losing him for nothing anyway, which isn't accurate until next summer.

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

One way to think about this is the flames got two core players under contract control for one guy under control and two guys who got be lost for nothing as free agents

This situation doesn't exist, so sure it's one way to think about it, but it's not what's actually happening.

[868904]

Originally Posted by Mista_Incognito

Saw this article comparing Ryan O’Reilly and Elias Lindholm using advanced metrics.

With Lindholm, the Hurricanes’ power play enjoyed a heavy dose of shot generation in front of the net, and from the top of the faceoff circle — fairly dangerous shooting areas.

The first standout on Lindholm’s PK heatmap is the ice right in the middle slot and faceoff areas being nearly devoid of opposition shots.

A quick glance at their five-on-five shot generation might also tip the scales just a little bit more, as Lindholm overall appears to generate more in the dangerous areas, and his team struggles to do the same while he’s off the ice.

I would have to agree that Elias Lindholm > Ryan O’Reilly

Peters hinted that there were some other alternatives with players who had played for him.

I'm thinking ROR was the other option for the Flames. I think ROR is the better player right now, but Lindholm is younger with potential to still improve to where ROR is offensively and he's also going to be cheaper. Plus the Flames also got Hanifin out of it.

You have to wonder if maybe Treliving was trying to get ROR/Ristolainen out of Buffalo for the same/similar package.