The Last of Us - HBO Series [Spoilers after episodes have aired -- no game spoilers]

[Shazam]

Ramsey is fine. She's doing what the director wants her to do.

[Muta]

The loss of Joel in the show sucks, but hey - now we get Jeffrey Wright who is awesome in his own right. I don't know anything about the game, but hopefully he's a character that stays for a while.

...and I had no clue (and I was likely just not paying attention that well) that Tommy was Kassian Andor - er, Diego Luna. That is frickin' awesome.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

If you're referring to the show Tommy, that's Gabriel Luna. Whereas Kassian is Diego.

I do like the character and hope we see more of him this season. I heard he was supposed to be a part of the Seattle mission but they've switched things around.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I’d go beyond “isn’t that compelling of a character.” As written this season, Ellie is one of the most unlikeable protagonists in popular streaming. Her sneering, reckless, tough-talking schtick just comes across as dumb and annoying. I guess they’re trying to make her super teenage-y. But everyone in my household - including my teenaged kids - hates the character. And the cringe dialogue she has to voice exposes Bella Ramsey’s limitations as an actress.

Yeah, I just cruised through the last two episodes myself and it’s only gotten worse. The combination of her limitations as an actress and the writing is just hard to stomach and I find myself checking out whenever she’s speaking. Catherine O’Hara’s (her character) reaction to Ellie felt like it was bordering on the self aware: we get it, you’re so tough and clever, everyone else is the problem.

Then when she’s walking out, you could tell “OK, this is all you, this is the emotional reveal, Ellie is actually struggling and broken, show it” (which was obvious anyway) and Bella just did absolutely nothing with it.

I thought the scene with Joe’s jacket was bordering on something, but then the table cookie scene just wiped that and brought us back to cringe writing/bad dialogue and limited acting chops.

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

This season I keep thinking "what does she see in her?" around Dina's undying love for this character who's shown few if any redeeming qualities from what we've seen of them together.

Ramsay's Ellie worked a lot better in season 1. May have to watch and compare to figure out why that is. I'm going to guess it's because she shared the screen with Pedro/Joel most of the time and they balanced each other out.

It's no disdain for the actress either as she was wonderful in GOT. But perhaps in this case the casting was a miss.

The sex scene after Dina’s been holding a gun on her while she’s sleeping was so abrupt and bizarre that I laughed out loud. The dialogue after was nonsensical and felt like the writers trying to explain why that happened and why their relationship made sense.

Ellie works well in season one because she has Joel. It’s their relationship that works, and it works because we’re given a strong why (Joel lost his daughter, and she is effectively a replacement) and then a build over the season that makes the relationship stand on its own. And there’s a clear distinction between them. Ellie’s role and personality makes sense as does Joel’s.

But now Ellie is playing that “leader of the pack” kind of role and it doesn’t make sense. There’s no season 1 Ellie to balance her or show her humanity. Dina is supposed to be that kind of? But it actually makes no sense why Dina isn’t the lead, she’s smarter, tougher and older/more experienced.

We’re basically stuck watching an emotion teenager with zero self awareness and a huge ego play tough. It’s exhausting.

I’ll finish the season but I’m hoping for a lot more of basically every other character. The scenes without Ellie or even just the ones where she isn’t doing the most talking have been the most interesting.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

If you're referring to the show Tommy, that's Gabriel Luna. Whereas Kassian is Diego.

Whoops! Got them mixed up haha, that's on me.

[Monahammer]

This season IMO is suffering a similar divide that Star Trek Discovery managed to find.

1. The writing/ casting choices are extremely poor (at best highly questionable).
2. Because the lead character/ actor are from a marginalized community, this leads to valid criticism taking on a different character, and getting jumbled with the straight up hate.
3. Unfortunately, this also causes a reactionary backlash of confused support for the objectively poor acting/performance to defend the person in the marginalized community from the mix of legitimate criticism and hate.

It's weird, but it would be easier to #### on and hate the show if Bella Ramsey was instead a cis white man.

I disagree with Trent, I did not think they did a good job in S1 even, and thought they were merely tolerable in GOT because of the extremely limited role played. I don't think they have the acting depth to carry a major production like this, and certainly didn't have the prior experience to warrant it.

Add in poor casting and poor choices in adapting the story, along with the special ingredient of a story even original adherents didn't really like and... presto, you have a bit of a bomb.

[Acey]

This season has felt like somebody took every plot point from the game, jumbled them all up, and couldn't figure out how to put them back together. The sequence of events are just bizarre and scenes I was looking forward to are just being butchered by inexplicable writing.

[Wastedyouth]

TLOU season 1 96% on Rotten Tomatoes. Season 2, 95%.

Ya it's really struggling.

Lol.

[Wormius]

What’s the difference between the Tomatometer and Popcornmeter?

It has turned into a TWD clone for me. I can’t really put my finger on it, but it is not compelling TV this season.

[PepsiFree]

Guys please re-adjust your personal feelings to the tomatometer. We must adhere to the gospel.

[Yamer]

I haven't had a single issue with the casting or Bella Ramsay in particular. I actually find her character a lot more complex and interesting than the first season.

I just got caught up on the last 2 episodes, and apart from getting that Walking Dead vibe of different factions, I realize most of that was in season 1, too, and it didn't disrupt my enjoyment at all.

Jeffrey Wright is a nice addition, and Catherine O'Hara is always great on any screen she's ever been on.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

But now Ellie is playing that “leader of the pack” kind of role and it doesn’t make sense. There’s no season 1 Ellie to balance her or show her humanity. Dina is supposed to be that kind of? But it actually makes no sense why Dina isn’t the lead, she’s smarter, tougher and older/more experienced.

We’re basically stuck watching an emotion teenager with zero self awareness and a huge ego play tough. It’s exhausting.

We’re supposed to buy into the idea that the other survivors in Jackson Hole indulge Ellie’s attitude because she’s some kind of super-scout. But she’s shown to be a reckless, undisciplined, and bad scout. And now we’re supposed to believe that Dina, who’s portrayed as confident and tough, will just fall in with Ellie as a sidekick. None of Ellie’s stature is earned. And having every third word that comes of her mouth as “####” doesn’t make her seem mature or hardbitten, it makes her annoying.

Contrast that with Abby, who as she’s portrayed and written comes across as someone with qualities that other people would respect. She’s intense, not petulant.

It’s still a pretty good show. But I’m always a tougher critic of good shows with glaring flaws than I am of shows that don’t aspire to be anything more than mediocre.

[Acey]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

TLOU season 1 96% on Rotten Tomatoes. Season 2, 95%.

Ya it's really struggling.

Lol.

Not only is Rotten Tomatoes a useless metric, but keep in mind that the source material is arguably the greatest video game of all time. Of course the bar is going to be high.

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Guys please re-adjust your personal feelings to the tomatometer. We must adhere to the gospel.

Agreed!

[Yamer]

Originally Posted by Acey

Not only is Rotten Tomatoes a useless metric, but keep in mind that the source material is arguably the greatest video game of all time. Of course the bar is going to be high.

Very, very arguably.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

While I sympathize more lately with the angry gamers who don't like Ramsay (at first I thought they were just nitpicking video game purists - most probably are - but as this season rolls on her weakness as the central character has become more evident), the rest of the show and characters around Ellie has been largely enjoyable.

Overall it's a solid 8/10 drama/thriller on its average day that suffers a bit from a not very likable and range-limited protagonist. Thankfully they had Merced there for Pascal to pass his baton to, because without her it would be more glaring.

So far I'm finding everything around Seattle pretty fascinating (I wish episodes were longer to show more exploration), and I'm curious to see what Isaac is all about and where Abby has been poking around. I suspect her eventual emergence will be intense.

I kind of hate how even with the news of the baby, Ellie is still pushing forward and knowingly putting two lives in danger now... ugh. Just a selfish character, who we're somehow supposed to sympathize with. But I suppose that's a core theme of the story (revenge).

[Acey]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I kind of hate how even with the news of the baby, Ellie is still pushing forward and knowingly putting two lives in danger now... ugh. Just a selfish character, who we're somehow supposed to sympathize with.

What you have identified is a plot hole unique to the show because they completely changed the sequence of events such that Ellie is far more difficult to sympathize with. Had they correctly followed the plot it would have made sense, but I guess the idea of the show was to not make a 1 for 1 copy of the game.

[GGG]

I think the problem for me is that the first season was this philosophical question around what would you do to survive. And is survival worth it without love. Each group they met along the journey offered a different perspective on the topic. Fedra, the bottle episode, Kansas, the Canibals, and Jackson.

This year they have too much money to spend on zombies and the philosophical discussion has taken a back seat.

Really this should be a story of Revenge vs Future. Elle should be torn between her future and for revenge. You got bits of this with the town deliberation and bits with the Wolfs vs the cult talking about kids killing kids but it isn’t well done.. Abby so far has not paid a price for her revenge. Maybe it gets there but so far this season feels like a video game.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by GGG

Abby so far has not paid a price for her revenge. Maybe it gets there but so far this season feels like a video game.

Without going into any type of spoilers the second game is supposed to be two, maybe even three seasons long. Expect things to move slowly.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I kind of hate how even with the news of the baby, Ellie is still pushing forward and knowingly putting two lives in danger now... ugh. Just a selfish character, who we're somehow supposed to sympathize with. But I suppose that's a core theme of the story (revenge).

Especially as their encounters with the WLF hasn't exactly been going swimmingly, and they've now run into a large group of psychopaths. They barely managed to run away from a small group of Wolves. That was after seeing a bunch of disembowled bodies hanging from the roof. Perhaps you and your pistol are just in slightly over your head?

But she insists on pushing ahead with her plan to infiltrate the Wolf headquarters?