2015-16 Raptors and General NBA Thread

[killer_carlson]

8 offensive boards, 18 defensive with 4 blocks from BB.

You're going to win a lot of games with that kind of performance from your center.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Great win, officiating was abysmal yet it made no difference at all. Would love to see them at least put the pressure on the Cavs and make it 2-2.

[Trojan97]

Not going down without a fight!!!! So, so proud of this team. Tremendous job all around.

[St. Pats]

This is gravy / season now goes from what was expected which was conference final. They are clearly the best of the rest and have been all season even if they putzed their way past the Pacers and Heat. Wildest dream was win one against the Cavs so now it's uncharted territory. All GRAVY!

[calgarybornnraised]

I have to say as a total band wagoner and really watching these playoffs, there is quite a difference between the TSN crew and the Sportsnet crew. TSN Sucks compared to SN.

[Da_Chief]

It's the same crew.

[calgarybornnraised]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

It's the same crew.

I mean the PBP crew. The last game was on TSN and all they did was talk stats and years past without actually calling the play. Tonight was play calling and then stats in the breaks.

[Da_Chief]

Matt Devlin does the PBP on both stations. Color guys change but mostly its Jack Armstrong. Tonight it was Leo Rautins.

[bluejays]

I used to get annoyed by Devlin, but now I have no problem with him, Rautins or Armstrong. I'd actually say those three are a fairly solid bunch. Not homers, but a pretty even balance, with a little lean towards giving the Raps the benefit of a call.

As for the game tonight, great game by Bismack. Today's not really the day for complaining, but you still seen some really bad shot selection with 3's not going down but still unnecessary far attempts when the best thing to do against the Cavs would be to take it to the basket. It's an ongoing concern with the lack of smart play by the offence. A couple really good ball movement plays, but not enough consistently.

[Trojan97]

Originally Posted by St. Pats

Really you would have to come up with some evidence which you can't. On defense he is a liability. He does not pass or rebound. What's left? He scores and even at that he is strictly a volume shooter / not a great offensive player / just one who has a coach that let's him shoot at will / there are literally dozens of players in the NBA who can score if given the green light. Look at Sweet Lou from last year /let him fire at will he will score as well but he is a sixth man which DD would be on a true contender.

He's actually consistently in the top 5-7 at his position for rebounding per game. So that's false. And that's with a couple bench guys ahead of him each year who beat him out as they are 3/d/rebounding specialists. So he's doing more than fine there in relation to other starters.

He doesn't pass? They run iso's for him 24/7, they want him breaking down the D and attacking the basket. He's extremely good at it during the regular season when he's not facing elite NBA stoppers each game. His FT stats show that. To knock him for a perceived inability to pass when it is easy to argue that Casey & Co. do not want him passing up shots on most possessions seems flawed.

Does he get tunnel vision to the detriment of the team at times? yes.
Does his average ball handling ability get him into trouble at times? yes
Does he leave his feet to make a pass more than he should? yes

But I'm also curious to hear which of the "dozens and dozens" of players you suggest would be a better option scoring the basketball when given the green light. I'm especially interested to hear which players (specifically which shooting guards) you feel would be able to maintain their undoubtedly more efficient shooting % compared to Demar. Especially when being faced with top defenders for 82 games a year, having teams spend hours analyzing and gameplanning you specifically to take away your offensive game, and to hold up to the physical punishment that playing 30+ minutes, 82 games a year takes on your body as "the man" is all taken into consideration.

If your argument was "Demar is not a max player". that is a perfectly valid argument of which I am on the fence about myself. But to say he's bench quality on a good team and is 100% replaceable is just ridiculous. Particularly as his play continues to improve with each series despite the quality of opponent drastically improving.

[bluejays]

Personally I see Demar is a good #2 or #3 option on your champtionship team. He really needs to be more consistent, and play to his forte of driving the the basket. We can say all we want that Cleveland is an elite defending team, but I'd argue they don't have a true C, and the Raps should be attacking the basket every chance they get, but Demar specifically, doesn't always do it. His midrange shooting is pretty mediocre. I do see the argument for him being a 6th man though, depending on the team he's on. I also don't see him as a max contract. Some team will have a desperate GM, and that GM will be exposed as such when they give him that contract. I don't know what the Raps do to replace him and Biyombo, but that where Ujuri will probably make his first big move.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Unless Durant goes to Washington or maybe the Celtics or someone else trades for Cousins, the Raps are the 2nd best team in the East next year with this exact same roster. Then you hope for Powell and Wright to develop more and JV to finally see the ball more, maybe you hit a home run with the Knicks pick, and maybe Cleveland takes a step back or LeBron finally gets hurt...it's going to be a quite a test for Masai to see what he does for next year.

[Regorium]

The argument that he doesn't pass because Casey tells him not to is more of a chicken and egg. I've never seen him be able to consistently make good decisions with the ball, so it's possible that the coach told him to accept his limitations and just shoot the ball. Regardless of the reason, it's a pretty massive weakness.

He's also a liability on defence. Luckily we are in a weird era of SG's where there isn't a lot of great ones out there so it doesn't get exposed as hard.

What players could Toronto get to replace the SG position? That's a much tougher question. It really depends on the premise and where the Raps want to go as a team.

Without Derozan, you open up 20+ posessions a game for your other players based on usage. I think JV is criminally underutilized, and with 10 extra possessions a game, I think he can efficiently replace a lot of that scoring. Depending on what your team looks like you can get a shooter, and then your offence revolves around either JV or Lowry starting the play and kicking it out for a pretty serious 3 pt threat.

You could also look for a more defensive lockdown type of SG that chips in a few points and can cut hard to the hoop for points and offensive rebounds. Someone like Matt Barnes or Trevor Ariza used to be.

Who these players are that the Raptors can get? I'm not sure - Admittedly I haven't really followed the free agent class and such for basketball so maybe you're right and Derozan is still the best choice. But his skillset, while above average, is not a championship level skillset in the NBA. I think that if the Raps continue to leverage Derozan, rather than Lowry/JV (who I do believe have championship level skillsets), then they are going to flame out early every year - I mean you could point to this year, but two game 7's against VASTLY inferior teams doesn't give a lot of hope.

Frankly, my main beef are people that do believe that Derozan is a max player and are huge fans. I liken Derozan to Taylor Hall. Perfect complimentary player, but you never want a guy like that to be "the man", but you'll never hear their fans say that.

And to be fair, he played a very efficient game yesterday (first of this series), so maybe he can keep it up. But having it be the second or third good game out of 17 playoff games is just not good enough.

[Regorium]

The argument that he doesn't pass because Casey tells him not to is more of a chicken and egg. I've never seen him be able to consistently make good decisions with the ball, so it's possible that the coach told him to accept his limitations and just shoot the ball. Regardless of the reason, it's a pretty massive weakness.

He's also a liability on defence. Luckily we are in a weird era of SG's where there isn't a lot of great ones out there so it doesn't get exposed as hard.

What players could Toronto get to replace the SG position? That's a much tougher question. It really depends on the premise and where the Raps want to go as a team.

Without Derozan, you open up 20+ posessions a game for your other players based on usage. I think JV is criminally underutilized, and with 10 extra possessions a game, I think he can efficiently replace a lot of that scoring. Depending on what your team looks like you can get a shooter, and then your offence revolves around either JV or Lowry starting the play and kicking it out for a pretty serious 3 pt threat.

You could also look for a more defensive lockdown type of SG that chips in a few points and can cut hard to the hoop for points and offensive rebounds. Someone like Matt Barnes or Trevor Ariza used to be.

Who these players are that the Raptors can get? I'm not sure - Admittedly I haven't really followed the free agent class and such for basketball so maybe you're right and Derozan is still the best choice. But his skillset, while above average, is not a championship level skillset in the NBA. I think that if the Raps continue to leverage Derozan, rather than Lowry/JV (who I do believe have championship level skillsets), then they are going to flame out early every year - I mean you could point to this year, but two game 7's against VASTLY inferior teams doesn't give a lot of hope.

Frankly, my main beef are people that do believe that Derozan is a max player and are huge fans. I liken Derozan to Taylor Hall. Perfect complimentary player, but you never want a guy like that to be "the man", but you'll never hear their fans say that.

And to be fair, he played a very efficient game yesterday (first of this series), so maybe he can keep it up. But having it be the second or third good game out of 17 playoff games is just not good enough.

[Trojan97]

Originally Posted by Regorium

The argument that he doesn't pass because Casey tells him not to is more of a chicken and egg. I've never seen him be able to consistently make good decisions with the ball, so it's possible that the coach told him to accept his limitations and just shoot the ball. Regardless of the reason, it's a pretty massive weakness.

He's also a liability on defence. Luckily we are in a weird era of SG's where there isn't a lot of great ones out there so it doesn't get exposed as hard.

What players could Toronto get to replace the SG position? That's a much tougher question. It really depends on the premise and where the Raps want to go as a team.

Without Derozan, you open up 20+ posessions a game for your other players based on usage. I think JV is criminally underutilized, and with 10 extra possessions a game, I think he can efficiently replace a lot of that scoring. Depending on what your team looks like you can get a shooter, and then your offence revolves around either JV or Lowry starting the play and kicking it out for a pretty serious 3 pt threat.

You could also look for a more defensive lockdown type of SG that chips in a few points and can cut hard to the hoop for points and offensive rebounds. Someone like Matt Barnes or Trevor Ariza used to be.

Who these players are that the Raptors can get? I'm not sure - Admittedly I haven't really followed the free agent class and such for basketball so maybe you're right and Derozan is still the best choice. But his skillset, while above average, is not a championship level skillset in the NBA. I think that if the Raps continue to leverage Derozan, rather than Lowry/JV (who I do believe have championship level skillsets), then they are going to flame out early every year - I mean you could point to this year, but two game 7's against VASTLY inferior teams doesn't give a lot of hope.

Frankly, my main beef are people that do believe that Derozan is a max player and are huge fans. I liken Derozan to Taylor Hall. Perfect complimentary player, but you never want a guy like that to be "the man", but you'll never hear their fans say that.

And to be fair, he played a very efficient game yesterday (first of this series), so maybe he can keep it up. But having it be the second or third good game out of 17 playoff games is just not good enough.

Good post.

I won't deny that his passing/decision making when passing the ball isn't great but I do truly feel that the offense they run puts him in a difficult position which puts him in a really tough spot when everyone bails out and he goes 1on1. How many times have we seen him drive the ball, get cutoff, and have no one even close to him which results in a forced pass that gets turned over or thrown out of bounds. To say "he doesn't pass" (as taken from another earlier post) is overstating it IMO, I think he generally does an acceptable job when he is passing within the flow of a standard offensive possession. Again, just my opinion, I completely understand where others differ.

You are 100% correct about it being a dead era for the shooting guard position. After Vince, Iverson, Kobe, T-Mac dominated the early 2000s, there has been a massive fall off in the current era at the position. That is part of the reason why I find the assertion that Demar is so easily replaceable to be completely wrong. Good shooting guards are few and far between. If you can hit a home run and sign KD in the offseason than obviously you do it, that's a no brainer. But I don't think that moving on from Demar with the roster constructed the way it is now does them any favours. Are you willing to gut the team after they finally made a playoff run to reassemble the roster? that's a whole other story.

I 100% agree with you that Jonas needs more touches going forward. He's blossomed before our very eyes in the playoffs and should be a dominant force going forward. If the offense can move a handful of touches/game from Demar to JV, I think they have another major gear they can hit going forward. People need to remember that Demar is only 26, Jonas just turned 24 and Lowry just hit 30. That is a young core who now has an ECF birth under their belt and knows what it takes to reach that next level. Throw in a top 10 pick to help potentially upgrade the 4 in time (Sabonis, Chriss) and that is a pretty nasty roster.

It's a fun debate no matter which way you look at it. I think we can all agree that no one would complain about being right or wrong if Demar plays would of his mind for the rest of the series and led the team to a miracle finals birth. Fingers crossed

[Jason14h]

I 100% agree with you that Jonas needs more touches going forward. He's blossomed before our very eyes in the playoffs and should be a dominant force going forward.

Here's the problem with JV. He takes stupid fouls so he can't stay on the floor, and he actually is pretty bad with his own ball handling.

I really hope he does take the next step, but he may just be a good big man as opposed to a very good big man!

[OzSome]

I did not see the whole game last night but I heard of the incident where Lebron got elbowed by Tristan Thompson and ref called a technical foul on Carroll then changed it to another Raptor player. I finally saw the video of that incident and man, that was an embarrassment!! I can't believed the ref bought that acting job by Lebron James. Looks like the guy got shot the way he fell. First we have to see Dwayne Wade flopping like someone hit him hard and now Lebron?? Whatever happen to those penalties for embellishment in NBA? It looks like NBA became an European soccer league the way the players go down like someone really hit them hard. It is embarrassing that some of the referees are just buying the embellishment especially from the so-called superstar of the league. I bet you that if that was Terrence Ross falling like Lebron did, he'll get a technical foul no question ask. I just lost respect on Wade and now Lebron.

[St. Pats]

Originally Posted by Regorium

The argument that he doesn't pass because Casey tells him not to is more of a chicken and egg. I've never seen him be able to consistently make good decisions with the ball, so it's possible that the coach told him to accept his limitations and just shoot the ball. Regardless of the reason, it's a pretty massive weakness.

He's also a liability on defence. Luckily we are in a weird era of SG's where there isn't a lot of great ones out there so it doesn't get exposed as hard.

What players could Toronto get to replace the SG position? That's a much tougher question. It really depends on the premise and where the Raps want to go as a team.

Without Derozan, you open up 20+ posessions a game for your other players based on usage. I think JV is criminally underutilized, and with 10 extra possessions a game, I think he can efficiently replace a lot of that scoring. Depending on what your team looks like you can get a shooter, and then your offence revolves around either JV or Lowry starting the play and kicking it out for a pretty serious 3 pt threat.

You could also look for a more defensive lockdown type of SG that chips in a few points and can cut hard to the hoop for points and offensive rebounds. Someone like Matt Barnes or Trevor Ariza used to be.

Who these players are that the Raptors can get? I'm not sure - Admittedly I haven't really followed the free agent class and such for basketball so maybe you're right and Derozan is still the best choice. But his skillset, while above average, is not a championship level skillset in the NBA. I think that if the Raps continue to leverage Derozan, rather than Lowry/JV (who I do believe have championship level skillsets), then they are going to flame out early every year - I mean you could point to this year, but two game 7's against VASTLY inferior teams doesn't give a lot of hope.

Frankly, my main beef are people that do believe that Derozan is a max player and are huge fans. I liken Derozan to Taylor Hall. Perfect complimentary player, but you never want a guy like that to be "the man", but you'll never hear their fans say that.

And to be fair, he played a very efficient game yesterday (first of this series), so maybe he can keep it up. But having it be the second or third good game out of 17 playoff games is just not good enough.

There are many ways they can go about replacing DD. They don't need a SG / they could just hand the job to Ross with Powell and Wright getting some time at that spot as well. They could draft a replacement at the 9. They could go after Horford etc. and upgrade the PF position instead. Instead of following the trend of small ball they could go with a strong center/PF combo instead. MU could pull off a deal for Cousins and then they would have an actual star to build around. They have so many picks to use in a trade it's really quite awesome. Conference final and picking twice in the first round lol.

All kinds of possibilities limited only to MU's ability. More than his ability to make moves though it is does he have the freedom to do so? He is a smart guy and he knows the money he has to work with. If MLSE won't go into the luxury tax how does he put together a contender? Can you really see him taking a shot at bringing the team to contender status? Not really in his track record so far.

I'm thinking JV really making an impact or a lucky draft at the 9 are their only current hopes for moving up to the next level. Doubt MU does more than try to offset the likely loss of BB.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Is there a typo in my NBA app or did OKC actually drop 72 points on Golden State in the first half tonight??

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Is there a typo in my NBA app or did OKC actually drop 72 points on Golden State in the first half tonight??

Yup they did. Everything from Thunder went in. It was actually close in the 40s, till Thunder went on a HUGE run to close out the half. I think it was 42-40 at one point before that run.