Craig's List 2014 Prospects

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by FakenHaken

I'm sorry you are right moon elite level talent does help with wins in the NHL, but the game has so many more intangibles such as hard work and winning culture attached to it.

It's easier to change the culture and work ethic of a team than it is to wave a wand and turn a 2nd line player into a an elite scorer or stud defenceman. Teams often change their work ethic with a coaching change. Or they bring in some vets or ship out problem players. Heck, most teams see a change in 'intangibles' over the course of a single season.

If finishing last means you have a deeply ingrained terrible culture, how did the Avs turn theirs around so fast?

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I don't know about you, but I will always pick the properly managed and coached club as more likely to become a championship team that 'tankers'.

Finishing bottom 3 =/= tanking. A team can finish bottom three simply because it doesn't have much talent. Finishing in the bottom of the league probably means you have poor management - at least over the long term. It can also mean you have management that has exchanged short-term assets for long-term assets as part of a long-term strategy. Finishing at bottom of the league is incidental to that sort of asset strategy.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Freeway

For the curious, a look at how bloody difficult it'll be for anyone to move in the bottom 5 of the standings. http://flamesnation.ca/2014/3/13/rac...ne-month-to-go

Good article but depressing for those desiring the highest pick.

Maybe we'll get lucky in the lottery

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by moon

Hopefully we have ditched our Lowe/Milbury/Waddell (Feaster) and now are moving into the top level GM (Shero et. al)

Surely the GM who got us in the this long-term asset-poor mess is Sutter. He left Feaster a capped out team with the worst pool of under-27 talent in the NHL. That's not something you turn around in two, or even five years.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by moon

What team won the Cup without elite talent?

Who won the Cup with hard work and a winning culture?

Carolina is the only one that comes to mind. Eric Staal, Cam Ward and nobody else elite IIRC. And it's hard to argue that Ward has been consistently elite. So Eric Staal? Is he even that elite?

We may already have our Staal in Monahan.

[moon]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Surely the GM who got us in the this long-term asset-poor mess is Sutter. He left Feaster a capped out team with the worst pool of under-27 talent in the NHL. That's not something you turn around in two, or even five years.

Not even close to being Sutter's fault.

There was plenty left on the team in terms of assets and flexibility. Feaster could have moved Kipper, Iginla and Bouw at the first deadline and got the team back great returns and A level prospects. The team would have likely had a ~10 pick (so likely a Hamilton/Brodin/Sven/Murphy guy) that year with those guys off the team and then a top 5 pick next year (Reilly/Reinhart/Galchelnyuk). Plus the added picks of moving others at the deadlines.

By holding on to faint, unlikely play-off hope Feaster kept this from being a fast turnaround into the full on rebuild that we are in now. Sutter may have started it, but at least got results on the ice to justify it, it was Feaster holding on when the results weren't there that ran the team into the ground.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by moon

Sure but you also have teams with top 3 picks that have won the Cup in the past 15 years:

TB
Chicago (3)
Pittsburgh (4)
Carolina
Los Angeles
Boston

And teams that had top 3 picks but drafted by another organization:

Anaheim

The teams that didn't have any top 3 picks Detroit, Dallas, Colorado, NJ.

So jugding by that if you can get a guy because his team pissed him off so bad he asked to leave or he got greedy (Roy, Pronger, Nieuwendyk, Belfour), have the greatest scouting in a time when that area is not well scouted (Detroit) or have a system that forces the league to change the rules (NJ) then perhaps you don't have to worry about top of the draft talent, but otherwise (and a lot more now that scouting is much more advanced) it appears that top of the draft talent is what is driving teams towards winning cups.

Doughty, Toews, Kane, Crosby, Malkin, Lecavalier, E. Staal. Their teams do not win Cups without them.

The number one thing I get out of your list up there is that if you have moron management (Lowe/Tambellini, Waddell, Milbury, Snow, Sherman) you will not be successul no matter where you draft.

If you have smart guys come in (Shero, Tallon/Bowman, Sakic) your team can take those picks and become a top of the league team.

Hopefully we have ditched our Lowe/Milbury/Waddell (Feaster) and now are moving into the top level GM (Shero et. al)

I don't disagree that you need elite talent to win the cup, but don't equate it to having top 3 picks in the draft.

It's just not all that important.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Carolina is the only one that comes to mind. Eric Staal, Cam Ward and nobody else elite IIRC. And it's hard to argue that Ward has been consistently elite. So Eric Staal? Is he even that elite?

We may already have our Staal in Monahan.

Eric Staal scored 100 points that year and was 7th in the league in scoring. He has made Canada Olympic teams.

Ward has been in the discussion for Olympic teams for the past two Olympics.

For me that is a good judge of elite talent guys who make or could make the Canadian Olympic team.

Ward hasn't been elite lately especially with injuries but I think in 2006 he was elite.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by strombad

I don't disagree that you need elite talent to win the cup, but don't equate it to having top 3 picks in the draft.

It's just not all that important.

Except that moon is right about the fact that a lot of elite talent comes from top 3-5 picks. Sure you can point to all the numerous exceptions but they remain that, exceptions. You can't count on drafting a Getlzaf 19th or whatever it is. That isn't realistic in the slightest. You can much more frequently count on getting a star or superstar in the top 3.

[Phanuthier]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Surely the GM who got us in the this long-term asset-poor mess is Sutter. He left Feaster a capped out team with the worst pool of under-27 talent in the NHL. That's not something you turn around in two, or even five years.

I like how Cliff keeps on whining about this in every thread.

For the record, of the left overunder-27 players that Darryl left behind included:

Giordano (UFA)
Backlund (draft pick)
Brodie (draft pick)
Bouma (draft pick)
Reinhart (draft pick)
Ortio (draft pick)

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

Surely the GM who got us in the this long-term asset-poor mess is Sutter. He left Feaster a capped out team with the worst pool of under-27 talent in the NHL. That's not something you turn around in two, or even five years.

Originally Posted by moon

Not even close to being Sutter's fault.

There was plenty left on the team in terms of assets and flexibility. Feaster could have moved Kipper, Iginla and Bouw at the first deadline and got the team back great returns and A level prospects. The team would have likely had a ~10 pick (so likely a Hamilton/Brodin/Sven/Murphy guy) that year with those guys off the team and then a top 5 pick next year (Reilly/Reinhart/Galchelnyuk). Plus the added picks of moving others at the deadlines.

By holding on to faint, unlikely play-off hope Feaster kept this from being a fast turnaround into the full on rebuild that we are in now. Sutter may have started it, but at least got results on the ice to justify it, it was Feaster holding on when the results weren't there that ran the team into the ground.

This is definitely worthwhile to rehash in this thread. Can't wait to see all the fresh new takes.

[moon]

Originally Posted by strombad

I don't disagree that you need elite talent to win the cup, but don't equate it to having top 3 picks in the draft.

It's just not all that important.

Top 3 picks in the draft are the easiest way to get that elite level talent that is why it is important.

7 of the last 10 Hart Trophy winners are top 3 picks.

7 of the top 10 scorers in the league are top 3 picks (Stamkos likely beats out Pavelski and crew to make it 8 if he is healthy). Last year was 7 of 10 as well.

6 of the 15 forwards selected for Team Canada were top 3 picks (that allows for MSL who originally was selected) and 3 of the other came from the 2003 draft which likely isn't happening again.

Already pointed out the importance to Stanley Cup champions of having top 3 draft picks on the roster and it is skewed even more so that way after the look-out.

Sure we can hope to luck into some with late round picks but consdering top drafting teams like Boston and Detroit miss more than hit not sure our chances are great. We can hope that we can pick up some other teams disgruntled star but those rarely seem to come to Canada or bottom of the standings teams.

[sureLoss]

According to Bill Potrecz, Brian Burke is at the Niagra Ice Dogs vs Mississauga Steel Heads game tonight.

Perhaps watching Brendan Perlini?

Does it mean much? Probably not as Burke will probably personally see all players projected to go around where the Flames will pick at least once.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by moon

Top 3 picks in the draft are the easiest way to get that elite level talent that is why it is important.

7 of the last 10 Hart Trophy winners are top 3 picks.

7 of the top 10 scorers in the league are top 3 picks (Stamkos likely beats out Pavelski and crew to make it 8 if he is healthy). Last year was 7 of 10 as well.

6 of the 15 forwards selected for Team Canada were top 3 picks (that allows for MSL who originally was selected) and 3 of the other came from the 2003 draft which likely isn't happening again.

Already pointed out the importance to Stanley Cup champions of having top 3 draft picks on the roster and it is skewed even more so that way after the look-out.

Sure we can hope to luck into some with late round picks but consdering top drafting teams like Boston and Detroit miss more than hit not sure our chances are great. We can hope that we can pick up some other teams disgruntled star but those rarely seem to come to Canada or bottom of the standings teams.

We're having two different conversations, I think.

I'm not in any way denying that elite talent isn't found in the top 3 rounds. It is, nobody is saying it isn't. The sole focus of what I'm trying to say is that you don't NEED a top 3 pick. You don't need a whole lot of top 6 picks. Does it help? Of course. But it doesn't change the fact that a hard working team is half the battle. We have that, and it's not worth sacrificing to drop two spots in a draft to MAYBE pick up a better player at 3 than a 5.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

According to Bill Potrecz, Brian Burke is at the Niagra Ice Dogs vs Mississauga Steel Heads game tonight.

Perhaps watching Brendan Perlini?

Does it mean much? Probably not as Burke will probably personally see all players projected to go around where the Flames will pick at least once.

Not an expert on he player at all but a big, skilled that can skate. Don't know much about his two-way game. Monahan with a couple big wingers on his line like him and Poirier would be pretty fantastic going forward.

Obviously the Flames and their fans want to get as high a pick as possible but if we don't there is no reason whatsoever that you can't draft and develop a star player in the 4th-5th-6th spots. Just have to do more homework. If the Flames are to turn this ship around they have to become a drafting and developing team regardless.

[Ashasx]

Craig's mock Draft on TSN:

1. Buffalo: Bennett
2. Oilers: Ekblad
3. Florida: Dal Colle
4. Buffalo (from NYI): Draisaitl
5. Calgary: Reinhart

Please Jesus.

[YogiBerra]

Buttons predictions for the top five picks

1. Sam Bennet-Buffalo
2.Aaron Ekblad-Edmonton
3.Dal Colle-Florida
4.Leon Draisaitl-Buffalo(he thinks nyi will give their pick up)
5.Sam Reinhart-Calgary

[Flames Draft Watcher]

We'll take a 2nd Reinhart. Yes please.

[strombad]

Considering Dal Colle is my least favourite, I'd be ecstatic if he goes before our pick.

[MrMastodonFarm]

I think I'm just showing a positional bias against Dal Colle, he seems like he's going to be a fantastic player I just have a preference for the guys that can play down the middle then the wingers. If he slips into the top four that would be great for the Flames.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Craig's mock Draft on TSN:

1. Buffalo: Bennett
2. Oilers: Ekblad
3. Florida: Dal Colle
4. Buffalo (from NYI): Draisaitl
5. Calgary: Reinhart

Please Jesus.

If that happens I take back everything I said about rather finish top 3 than 5th.

But I think that is crazy talk from a crazy man that likes to make controversial comments about the upcoming drafts.