[Rumour] Chris Johnston: Lindholm is interested in staying

[Snuffleupagus]

Originally Posted by dino7c

How is stating a players stats and assessing his value waiving pom poms

Lindholm is a 8.5-9M player

Here or elsewhere

Yup. but he likely won't be after age 34

9
9
9
8.5
8.5
8.5
7.5
6

$66m - $8.25m AAV

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by dino7c

How is stating a players stats and assessing his value waiving pom poms

Lindholm is a 8.5-9M player

Here or elsewhere

The dollar figure isn't the issue. The term, his age, and the roster constructed around him is the issue.

[Jason14h]

Its also not just do you sign Lindholm, its the opportunity cost of the 9 million.

So a team that was interested in Lindholm could have traded a package for him, or just signed a RoR, or acquired a Taylor Hall, Reilly Smith or Ryan Johansen for free (and had cap space left over) and kept their assets and picks

Assuming the Flames arent forced to take a ton of long term contract back for Lindholm you get a strong package and 9 million in flexibility by trading him.

This gives the team options to take advantage of cap dumps, and other teams cap vulnerabilities.

This is why the Kadri move made little sense - It removed flexibility. But Flames were operating from a position of weakness having lost their 2 faces of the franchise.

By locking in Lindholm the Flames further limit their flexibility going forward.

Lindholm on his own at $9 million isnt an issue. Even if he's 1$m overpaid at that price on a long term deal it that doesnt cripple the team. But having so much money tied up long term on depreciating assets (Older players) has a very large potential to handcuff this team over the next 8 years from a flexibility standpoint. And then they will be constantly operating from a place of weakness in both trade, UFA, and RFA negotiations.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Hackey

The dollar figure isn't the issue. The term, his age, and the roster constructed around him is the issue.

Kadri is the killer for me on Lindholm. Magically trading away Kadri and re-signing Lindholm would be ideal but that isn't happening.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Kadri is the killer for me on Lindholm. Magically trading away Kadri and re-signing Lindholm would be ideal but that isn't happening.

I agree with this but to me it is the total combination of Kadri/Huberdeau/Weegar all having 6-8 year deals at top money with Kadri turning 33, Huberdeau just turned 30 and Weegar turns 30 during the season. If we only had Kadri signed long term I could live with a Lindholm extension but all 4 would be tough. Ideally if you could drop one it would be Kadri

[ForeverFlameFan]

I don't know why Weegar continues to be brought up. His cap hit is never going to be an issue for what he brings, no matter the age. Giordano had a higher cap hit and that was when the cap was in the 70's. Weegar at 6.25m when the cap is likely in the 90's is an absolute steal. It's the Kadri/Huberdeau contracts that need to be worried about.

[chedder]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

I agree with this but to me it is the total combination of Kadri/Huberdeau/Weegar all having 6-8 year deals at top money with Kadri turning 33, Huberdeau just turned 30 and Weegar turns 30 during the season. If we only had Kadri signed long term I could live with a Lindholm extension but all 4 would be tough. Ideally if you could drop one it would be Kadri

Kadri makes $7 million and Weeger makes $6.25. Neother of these contracts is anywhere near top money.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by howard_the_duck

Speaking of narrative.

Take away the one outlier season Lindholm played with Gaudreau and Tkachuk, where he was +61, and his 5-year +/- is +30, and nowhere near the list you've laid out.

Facts are facts.

Take out the best season of every player, and their numbers don't look as good.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

I don't know why Weegar continues to be brought up. His cap hit is never going to be an issue for what he brings, no matter the age. Giordano had a higher cap hit and that was when the cap was in the 70's. Weegar at 6.25m when the cap is likely in the 90's is an absolute steal. It's the Kadri/Huberdeau contracts that need to be worried about.

Yeah that Weegar contract looks good and is not an issue at all.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by chedder

Kadri makes $7 million and Weeger makes $6.25. Neother of these contracts is anywhere near top money.

'Top money' is going to be $12 - $15M in another year.

$6 - $8M is already approaching, and definitely will be in a year or two, mid-tier money

[Hackey]

Well obviously we're not paying top money because we have no top players. Which is also a major issue. How are we supposed to get some? Trade? Unlikely. Draft? Have to get very lucky. Sign? Doubtful. And all our "top" guys are getting older which really puts a time crunch on your competitive window. If the team was elite it's an entirely different situation but we're not even sure these guys are a playoff team.

[Saqe]

The problem with these long contracts that the Flames have is the term. Realistically you can expect diminishing returns on every one of them half way through, if not earlier. So even if the cap goes up the deal doesn't get any better if the player gets worse at the same time.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Saqe

The problem with these long contracts that the Flames have is the term. Realistically you can expect diminishing returns on every one of them half way through, if not earlier. So even if the cap goes up the deal doesn't get any better if the player gets worse at the same time.

If they didn't get worse those contracts would be steals.

Weegar is underpaid still going into next year. In 4 years he'll likely be vastly underpaid. Last two or three years will likely be flipped and fall off. But there's a decent chance he's still a #4 and 6 million will be pretty standard for a #4.

Lindholm will be the same imo. As long as he can maintain a 2C/3C by the end which a lot of players have been doing lately. He'll be fine.

Kadri, lets hope for LTIR at some point.

Huberdeau... I honestly have no clue. Could age beautifully or the contract is terrible before it starts. You don't not make the Weegar/Lindholm contracts because of this though. You just gotta roll with it.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by DJones

If they didn't get worse those contracts would be steals.

Weegar is underpaid still going into next year. In 4 years he'll likely be vastly underpaid. Last two or three years will likely be flipped and fall off. But there's a decent chance he's still a #4 and 6 million will be pretty standard for a #4.

Lindholm will be the same imo. As long as he can maintain a 2C/3C by the end which a lot of players have been doing lately. He'll be fine.

Kadri, lets hope for LTIR at some point.

Huberdeau... I honestly have no clue. Could age beautifully or the contract is terrible before it starts. You don't not make the Weegar/Lindholm contracts because of this though. You just gotta roll with it.

I agree the Weegar deal is the best of the bunch but I think people are way too optimistic to think that all these deals are going to be bad only the last 1-2 years. We just saw Hubereau have a historically bad drop off in production at the age of 29 and sure the situation played into it but he's not all innocent either. Point is anything can happen and generally the trend is downward after 30s. But I'm not really that worried about Huberdeau at least when it comes to production. I think he can still be a PPG player for several years- now I don't think his deal is good even if that happens but people probably will be ok with it.

The real steals are contracts like the ones Buffalo has signed with Cozens and Thompson, Ottawa signed with Sutzle and B. Tkachuk or Panthers signed with Barkov and Tkachuk. Guys who were signed to long term deals in their early or mid 20s before the cap goes up and that expire before their mid thirties.

[Hackey]

Weegar had 4 goals and 31 pts so not sure he is underpaid. His contract is definitely less worrisome but he's just starting year 1 of 8. That's a long time. I think he should have a better year next year but predicting an 8 year deal is tough.

If Lindholm can maintain 2C then he is probably earning his contract. But again year 1 of 8 would be next year.

Kadri contract takes him to 40.

Huberdeau I really don't know what to expect. Next year will be big for him. But again year 1 of 8.

To me that's quite a bit of risk and hopeful thinking that these all age decently. That core isn't that strong. You're likely not expecting them to get better and more than likely will regress. Best case scenario seems like a first round exit for a few years.

[transplant99]

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Hackey

Weegar had 4 goals and 31 pts so not sure he is underpaid.

Nice of you to plop your credentials of having no idea how to evaluate a player on the table.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by chedder

Kadri makes $7 million and Weeger makes $6.25. Neother of these contracts is anywhere near top money.

It doesn't matter if it is top money or not. It is the age and trajectory of the deal that makes it potentially problematic.

Weegar is not someone I am worried about given his game and the way he came on last season. Guys like Kadri and Huberdeau (and possibly Lindholm) may all be signed to 7-10M AAV deals until they are almost or are 40.

It's not a good allocation of cap dollars and will end up killing the team if they have 3 old players earning a huge portion of the cap to be effectively 3rd liners in 3-4 years.

[traptor]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Mark and lindy seem very close. Could be a reason why lindholm decides to stay.

He seems like a low key guy, Quiet in the media and lots of pictures outside fishing and hiking.
Doesn't strike me as anew york or Miami type.

He also has never had a huge contract. That makes the risk of going elsewhere or waiting that much higher.

I think he ends up signing by the end of summer.

[DJones]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

It doesn't matter if it is top money or not. It is the age and trajectory of the deal that makes it potentially problematic.

Weegar is not someone I am worried about given his game and the way he came on last season. Guys like Kadri and Huberdeau (and possibly Lindholm) may all be signed to 7-10M AAV deals until they are almost or are 40.

It's not a good allocation of cap dollars and will end up killing the team if they have 3 old players earning a huge portion of the cap to be effectively 3rd liners in 3-4 years.

You think Lindholm will be a 3rd liner at 33?