You Know What Really Grinds My Gears? Now with 3x more gears...

[Cecil Terwilliger]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Every driven in Switzerland? They have over 2,000km of top quality 4-lane wide tunnels through the Alps at depths exceeding 2,000m with the population of only 8.6M and the lowest income taxes in the world. Tunnels are the most efficient ways of driving through the mountain ranges in terms of safety of drivers and wildlife, maintenance costs and environmental impact. Harper (being from the West himself) wanted to build the tunnel between Lake Louise and Golden tight spots, but Trudeau got it shelved. There are not that many tight spots along Hwy-1, actually; maybe, less than 100km in total. Canada just needs to bite the bullet and make a decision to budget 20-30B to have it done once and for all. Widening those road bases along mountain terraces is not only dangerous and expensive; it is also taking a huge amount of time and disruption for the summer traffic. Tunneling will be less disruptive and, upon completion, will leave alternative scenic routes for emergencies and for those who wants to enjoy the scenery while driving.

If only Canada supported nazis, dictators and drug/weapons dealers the world over we could have fancy tunnels too.

[CroFlames]

Lots of European countries do tunnels. Croatia, far from a rich country, has tons of road tunnels. Some of them multiple kms long. I think the European Union helped fund them, but still.

Canada IS a rich country.

[Shazam]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Every driven in Switzerland? They have over 2,000km of top quality 4-lane wide tunnels through the Alps at depths exceeding 2,000m with the population of only 8.6M and the lowest income taxes in the world. Tunnels are the most efficient ways of driving through the mountain ranges in terms of safety of drivers and wildlife, maintenance costs and environmental impact. Harper (being from the West himself) wanted to build the tunnel between Lake Louise and Golden tight spots, but Trudeau got it shelved. There are not that many tight spots along Hwy-1, actually; maybe, less than 100km in total. Canada just needs to bite the bullet and make a decision to budget 20-30B to have it done once and for all. Widening those road bases along mountain terraces is not only dangerous and expensive; it is also taking a huge amount of time and disruption for the summer traffic. Tunneling will be less disruptive and, upon completion, will leave alternative scenic routes for emergencies and for those who wants to enjoy the scenery while driving.

Well I'm all for saying governments are lazy and/or incompetent.

You okay with opaque banking systems?

Also there has been a lot of divided highway added, you just haven't noticed.

[opendoor]

Switzerland's taxes aren't that low. Federally they are, but the individual cantons also have income taxes which are normally significantly higher than the federal rate. And of course, Switzerland also has a wealth tax which collects up to 1% of a person's taxable net worth each year (depending on the canton), which allows them to have lower income tax rates.

Their tax-to-GDP ratio puts them 31st among the 38 OECD nations between Australia and the US (Canada is 21st).

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Every driven in Switzerland? They have over 2,000km of top quality 4-lane wide tunnels through the Alps at depths exceeding 2,000m with the population of only 8.6M and the lowest income taxes in the world. Tunnels are the most efficient ways of driving through the mountain ranges in terms of safety of drivers and wildlife, maintenance costs and environmental impact. Harper (being from the West himself) wanted to build the tunnel between Lake Louise and Golden tight spots, but Trudeau got it shelved. There are not that many tight spots along Hwy-1, actually; maybe, less than 100km in total. Canada just needs to bite the bullet and make a decision to budget 20-30B to have it done once and for all. Widening those road bases along mountain terraces is not only dangerous and expensive; it is also taking a huge amount of time and disruption for the summer traffic. Tunneling will be less disruptive and, upon completion, will leave alternative scenic routes for emergencies and for those who wants to enjoy the scenery while driving.

Switzerland is 41000 sq km.

If you draw a funny triangle-like shape from CGY-EDM-VAN (which also captures a lot of interior BC population) it's about 150 000 sq km, for probably ~7 million people.

But really, Switzerland is more like BNP and Glacier NP between Italy (60M) and France/Germany + the rest of northern Europe. At least a 10x scale difference compared to Canada.

That said, a tunnel may still have been the right option here. I've struggled to find much info on it beyond they identified two possible routes that were each about 2.9km long, though I've also seen references to shorter tunnels and sheds...it seems there were some reports/renderings, but all dead links now. I've read some allusions that operational costs would also have been higher for a tunnel, too.

I kinda doubt Harper sketched out a tunnel on a cocktail napkin and that Trudeau took great glee in personally tearing it up. They just happened to be the guys in power when the project was initiated, and then final decisions made...

[Fuzz]

Ya, I was just googling looking for this tunnel plan and came up empty. Trudeau must be really good with the internet censorship to have removed it all.

[Shazam]

Different options have been mulled about since the 1950s. This ain't a new problem.

And I doubt any ruling PM had any say whatsoever. This is basically entirely up to the bureaucrats.

[TheIronMaiden]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

Lots of European countries do tunnels. Croatia, far from a rich country, has tons of road tunnels. Some of them multiple kms long. I think the European Union helped fund them, but still.

Canada IS a rich country.

really? I though we were on the verge of collapse.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Ya, I was just googling looking for this tunnel plan and came up empty. Trudeau must be really good with the internet censorship to have removed it all.

They must be. I was trying to find the Calgary Herald articles announcing it and I couldn't find any. But this was a huge deal/announcement at the time.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Switzerland is 41000 sq km. If you draw a funny triangle-like shape from CGY-EDM-VAN (which also captures a lot of interior BC population) it's about 150 000 sq km, for probably ~7 million people....

So, following the same logic, how did the Confederation Bridge get approved for the 150,000 people in PEI?

My point was, we don't need 2,000 km of tunnels. Like I said earlier, perhaps a 100km through the most treacherous sections.

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

...
I kinda doubt Harper sketched out a tunnel on a cocktail napkin and that Trudeau took great glee in personally tearing it up. They just happened to be the guys in power when the project was initiated, and then final decisions made...

I don't think so too. But it was announced during the Harper administration and then quietly shelved during Trudeau's without much explanation to the general public.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

So, following the same logic, how did the Confederation Bridge get approved for the 150,000 people in PEI?

My point was, we don't need 2,000 km of tunnels. Like I said earlier, perhaps a 100km through the most treacherous sections.


I don't think so too. But it was announced during the Harper administration and then quietly shelved during Trudeau's without much explanation to the general public.

They did look at tunnelling the golden to revy section but the price tag was insane. I can’t find the old studies with a quick google any more. But I remember 5-10 times the cost of the alternative or something like that.

I don’t think Tunnel was ever the approved plan.

Confederation bridge was a promise made during PEI joining Canada.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

So, following the same logic, how did the Confederation Bridge get approved for the 150,000 people in PEI?

My point was, we don't need 2,000 km of tunnels. Like I said earlier, perhaps a 100km through the most treacherous sections.


I don't think so too. But it was announced during the Harper administration and then quietly shelved during Trudeau's without much explanation to the general public.

I'm sure lots of detailed analysis went into that bridge, just like the KH project. The alternative to the bridge was ferry service, which comes with its own costs and issues, and it's a toll bridge.

I'm not sure tolls would really have been feasible for a TC1 tunnel?

I suspect one factor against the tunnel was that it wouldn't actually shorten the route as it would really just run parallel to the existing road. Tunnels make a lot more sense when the alternative is a circuitous route through difficult terrain.

The decision they've made here is actually a more direct route through difficult terrain...they are smoothing the hairpin* to the inside with a bridge...a tunnel would have elongated it to the outside of the turn (into the mountain). Either option would have 'shortened' the route by ironing out the curves, but the option they chose will probably be slightly shorter than a tunnel.

And the explanation has been cost. I just don't know if we ever saw a price tag comparison between the options.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by GGG

Confederation bridge was a promise made during PEI joining Canada.

PEI joined Canada in 1873 and construction on Confederation Bridge started in 1993 (and it opened in 1998).

So, I guess we have some time.

[timun]

Originally Posted by CaptainYooh

Harper (being from the West himself) wanted to build the tunnel between Lake Louise and Golden tight spots, but Trudeau got it shelved.

1. Harper is Ontarian and grew up in a tony Toronto neighbourhood

2. [citation needed] I don't remember any serious talk of expanding the highway.

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by timun

1. Harper is Ontarian and grew up in a tony Toronto neighbourhood

Why are you even bringing this up? You do know that he moved to Edmonton very young and then went to UofC for his post-studies under Frank Atkins. For the most part of his political career, Harper was viewed as the Western guy.

[timun]

You're the one who brought it up, not me. He didn't move to Alberta until adulthood.

Why did you bring it up, hmm...?

[CaptainYooh]

Originally Posted by timun

...He didn't move to Alberta until adulthood...

Sure. And that was when he was a PM, in his adulthood. Not sure why I'm responding. I will stop at this.

[timun]

Somebody's upset I poked holes in their insinuation...

[powderjunkie]

They made the commitment to upgrade the highway...tunnel(s) seem to have been considered possible/likely based on broad estimates. Details changing throughout the process is nothing new.

Calgary's Green Line was announced [under Harper] including tunnels deep under downtown and the Bow River and a lot more length than where the current plan has landed. I also blame Trudeau for these changes.

[DownInFlames]

The Faroe Islands have tunnels that have cost tens of thousands per person. They're a lot more necessary there because the alternative is ferry trips in often choppy seas, so it's pretty easy to justify the cost.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-55195390