Russia invades Ukraine

[Cheese]

Canada is closing its airspace to all Russian aircraft, effective immediately.
“We will hold Russia accountable for its unprovoked attacks against Ukraine,” Transport Minister Omar Alghabra said in a tweet on Sunday.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

I disagree.
For once they had to hit Russia hard and not let them just take what they want degree by degree.
Russia is doing what they're doing regardless.
Not the time to be weak but time to hit them with whatever hammers you have and not give Russia the time to complete their plan.

Before the war broke out, wasn't the talk from the west about how they would be the most devastating sanctions ever? Russia, and even everyday people laughed it off and thought it would never be enough (myself included). Now that we've seen the world act and its easily much more than I ever thought it would be, they think it's too much? #### off. You keep punching a bear in it's face, eventually it claws your eyes out.

People like Putin only understand one single thing, and that is force. He constantly negotiates in bad faith. Constantly lies every time a camera hits his face. Has not an ounce of sympathy in him. Whatever deals he signs aren't worth the paper they are written on. Eventually you stop trying to talk down the school bully. You sack up and kick him in the junk.

Having said that, there still needs to be a path out for Russia from this, if there is to be peace and the finger off his nuclear trigger. The Russian government 100% deserves this punishment, no doubt. But hopefully there is some kind of small pathway that gives his country a way out, should he choose to do so.

[PeteMoss]

What's the situation like over there now pointman?

Are people aware of the sanctions coming through this week and the likely impact on the ruble?

[Slava]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

I disagree.
For once they had to hit Russia hard and not let them just take what they want degree by degree.
Russia is doing what they're doing regardless.
Not the time to be weak but time to hit them with whatever hammers you have and not give Russia the time to complete their plan.

I think your interpreting my point here as continued appeasement. That’s not what I’m saying though. What I mean is we should apply sanctions to choke the Russian economy, and make things incredibly difficult, but not outright destroy them. If you take the more drastic course, you make Putin desperate and that’s incredibly dangerous, because while they’re desperate they’re still capable of horrific damages and actions. You don’t want to put them in a position of having nothing to lose, so they choose the worse option for everyone.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by surferguy

There is no way there wasn’t a huge amount of animosity towards Germany after the wars.

Eell, that animosity came with $15 billions aid

https://www.history.com/topics/world...arshall-plan-1

[PeteMoss]

US says Russia has now deployed 2/3 of combat power they had amassed at the Ukraine border.

[Pointman]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

What's the situation like over there now pointman?

Are people aware of the sanctions coming through this week and the likely impact on the ruble?

Well aware and desperate to buy $$ or euros. Some protests going on as well. There's also general "Putin lost his mind and our country is on a crash course" kind of vibe

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Slava

I think your interpreting my point here as continued appeasement. That’s not what I’m saying though. What I mean is we should apply sanctions to choke the Russian economy, and make things incredibly difficult, but not outright destroy them. If you take the more drastic course, you make Putin desperate and that’s incredibly dangerous, because while they’re desperate they’re still capable of horrific damages and actions. You don’t want to put them in a position of having nothing to lose, so they choose the worse option for everyone.

Agreed. I hate the Russian government as much as anybody right now. But there 100% needs to be a pathway out, and a choice for them to make it.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by chedder

I hope this is tongue in cheek as today's Germany is not the country or government of 90 years ago.

Yes, of course. Hence the Norm MacDonald line.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Pointman

While I wasn't alive back then, I don't recall Germans as a nation receiving much hate after WW2. Or WW1 for that matter.

Well anecdotally i can assure you there very much was animosity and distrust towards German nationals up until the Berlin wall came down in this part of the world.

The whole cold war thing had that kind of effect on the West.

[Codes]

I've been following along and not posting.

1) HW, you and your family are in my thoughts.

2) Pointman, thank you for your perspective and for answering people's questions.

Everyone take care and be safe.

[edslunch]

Perceived NATO encroachment on Russia was one of the drivers for the Ukraine conflict. This has been and continues to be a serious concern for Putin. The West should be cautious about coupling these punishing sanctions with aggressive military posturing.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Well anecdotally i can assure you there very much was animosity and distrust towards German nationals up until the Berlin wall came down in this part of the world.

The whole cold war thing had that kind of effect on the West.

It’s a different world though. They aren’t faceless unknown villains. People see and communicate with people all over the world every day. I feel just as sick about all the poor Russian kids thrust into this against their will.

Just as people as a whole dislike the Chinese government, the same is said about Putin. People have a better understanding than the days of my grandpa when people from a specific country were the enemy. People aren’t the enemy here, maniacal government is. And people have a viewport into that which didn’t really exist before.

[FlameOn]

Originally Posted by Pointman

Well aware and desperate to buy $$ or euros. Some protests going on as well. There's also general "Putin lost his mind and our country is on a crash course" kind of vibe

I don't think Putin's lost his mind for a plan that was 20+ years in the making, that's way more methodical and far more psychopathic. I hope that point doesn't become lost on the Russian people when the dust settles or in other countries for that matter. Power is always the end game for populist right wing leaders. Putin, Erdogan, etc. In the end, the regular joe always suffers

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Scroopy Noopers

It’s a different world though. They aren’t faceless unknown villains. People see and communicate with people all over the world every day. I feel just as sick about all the poor Russian kids thrust into this against their will.

Just as people as a whole dislike the Chinese government, the same is said about Putin. People have a better understanding than the days of my grandpa when people from a specific country were the enemy. People aren’t the enemy here, maniacal government is. And people have a viewport into that which didn’t really exist before.

Yeah i know and agree.

My response was to the claim that there was no "hate" towards Germans after WW I & II.

[FlameOn]

MOD posts updates on Russian troop movements. They're getting bogged down in Kyiv and now are pulling in troops from the East.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1497903640777998341

https://twitter.com/user/status/1497849912905674752

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by TKB

I wish Canada would follow suite in regards to rearming the military.

Right now today, we'd literally be handicapping our soldiers if this situation was more of a shooting war for Canada with our complacency and our military spending.


Nations in Europe are going to pay a price for not spending on their military. We have a military that would go in and fail in a modern battlefield against a large nation state. Even as we comment on the struggles of the Russians. If this was a NATO nation being attacked and we send troops over to help defend that nation, we would be failing the men and woman in uniform.


We all thought major conflict wouldn't return. We didn't need to spend because we'd be running around doing small regional conflicts against non nation enemies with light arms and road side bombs. Or weakened nations in conflict against a ethnic minority.


That opinion should have changed about 4 days ago, and our esteemed defense minister should be huddling up with the actual commanders of the armed forces and not the bureaucrats and clock punchers and asking the question, what do we need in the worst case scenario? If we had to send planes or ships or troops to a Nato country to rebuff an invasion by Russia. Or we need to send ships and subs to the sea of china to help defend Taiwan.


We don't need to have a big military. But we need one that's properly equipped and trained so we can actual help and not hinder, and our military can actually survive.

[underGRADFlame]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1497938592664068102

https://www.airlive.net/breaking-the...ck-in-ukraine/


Not surprised but really?

[Britflamesfan]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The one problem with a blitzkrieg like attack is that logistics units are slower. Saddam used this in Kuwait, and his attack lost its initiative because the attack had to slow down to be refueled and re-armed.



With the Russian's I agree with you their attack was designed around speed and a punch that was designed to be a knock out blow on multiple fronts. Because of that they left their logistical train behind and the Ukrainians have exploited that smartly.


Right now I'd say that the Russian's have completely lost the initiative, and once that's lost its really hard to get it back. It gets even worse if the Russian's are having logistics problems. An armored column that's low on fuel can't maneuver in battle and loses all of its advantages.



The only way that the Russian's can regain the iniative is to either release their masses of reserves. Of to open another axis of attack and force the Ukrainians to shift their forces.


But I have to wonder about the Russian's satellite capabilities as they're having trouble hitting targets, which might mean a problem with their GPS systems. But also that their photo recon satellites aren't that good.

Capt Crunch not quite true about Saddam and his attack on Kuwait. He had the whole of Kuwait sown up in short order. Its less than an hours drive from the Iraq border to Kuwait city.

[Southside]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Right now today, we'd literally be handicapping our soldiers if this situation was more of a shooting war for Canada with our complacency and our military spending.


Nations in Europe are going to pay a price for not spending on their military. We have a military that would go in and fail in a modern battlefield against a large nation state. Even as we comment on the struggles of the Russians. If this was a NATO nation being attacked and we send troops over to help defend that nation, we would be failing the men and woman in uniform.


We all thought major conflict wouldn't return. We didn't need to spend because we'd be running around doing small regional conflicts against non nation enemies with light arms and road side bombs. Or weakened nations in conflict against a ethnic minority.


That opinion should have changed about 4 days ago, and our esteemed defense minister should be huddling up with the actual commanders of the armed forces and not the bureaucrats and clock punchers and asking the question, what do we need in the worst case scenario? If we had to send planes or ships or troops to a Nato country to rebuff an invasion by Russia. Or we need to send ships and subs to the sea of china to help defend Taiwan.


We don't need to have a big military. But we need one that's properly equipped and trained so we can actual help and not hinder, and our military can actually survive.

Others here would know far more and better but as I recall Canadian special forces and pilots were regarded among some of the best in the world around the turn of the century. I seem to recall US military encouraging Canada to continue to focus on those areas in order to best serve NATO. Whether that has changed or not? Our pilots are no longer flying modern aircraft.