Brad Treliving needs to go

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

I worry that somebody like Lombardi would try to re-tool this roster instead of doing a full rebuild, which is the only way out of this mess.

Zero chance there is a rebuild for another 2-3 years unless Sutter walks away

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Zero chance there is a rebuild for another 2-3 years unless Sutter walks away

I would agree. I think if done right, a re-tool can work. However, the core does need to be blown up.

[Jig]

This will be a very long retool rebuild. The players, management are signed up to win now, but they need a full rebuild. A new GM is required, building through the draft is the only way to get out of this and you need to draft some pillars which requires to finish in the lottery. I bet you Ottawa, Detroit and maybe Buffalo are relevant before the Flames will be.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by keenan87

I would agree. I think if done right, a re-tool can work. However, the core does need to be blown up.

How can you possibly re-tool if the core needs to be blown up?

Is adding Sutter really going to prevent this team from doing what is necessary? Can Darryl not coach a rebuilding team and teach them good habits?

[zamler]

Why bother giving ice time to our "top" players. Bench the lot of them see what happens.

[Red]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

How can you possibly re-tool if the core needs to be blown up?

Is adding Sutter really going to prevent this team from doing what is necessary? Can Darryl not coach a rebuilding team and teach them good habits?

Not the best or easiest scenario but Monahan + whatever for a capable top line C makes a huge difference.
Add some depth pieces WITH SIZE and they may not be so bad.

Doesn't Forbort look good for the Jets? Why did we let him go? Big guy that likes to shoot? A better Stone for minimum salary. Should have kept him.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

How can you possibly re-tool if the core needs to be blown up?

Is adding Sutter really going to prevent this team from doing what is necessary? Can Darryl not coach a rebuilding team and teach them good habits?

Find a GM who can make a few hockey deals. Try to draft well within the next 2 years.

Hope that some of the young guys can become impact players.

Get rid of Monahan, Gaudreau, Backlund, Tkachuk up front
Get rid of Giordano

Give the team to: Lindholm, Dube, Mangiapane, Andersson, and Hanifin -- and some pieces acquired by the above trades.

[Ashasx]

What hockey deals are you going to make with Monahan, Giordano, and Backlund right now that are actually going to help the team? Other scouts and GMs are watching the corpse of Monahan out there just as much as we are.

Make deals for the future. Don't try to Phaneuf 2.0 this. Just move on and accept defeat.

The only way to consistent, long-term success in this league is through the draft. You NEED a number 1 centre in this league to compete. The only way to get those players is through the draft.

Take some pain for a few seasons and do it right. It just delays the inevitable otherwise.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

Zero chance there is a rebuild for another 2-3 years unless Sutter walks away

Sutter may not be here for only the next 3 years. He wants to Win a Stanley Cup here and the top players here aren’t good enough to even make the playoffs. Don’t call it a rebuild, but the only path to the ultimate goal is through the draft. Get young, get skilled.

We have absolutely nowhere near the amount of talent required to win the Stanley Cup.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

What hockey deals are you going to make with Monahan, Giordano, and Backlund right now that are actually going to help the team? Other scouts and GMs are watching the corpse of Monahan out there just as much as we are.

Backlund and Giordano are basically cap dumps. See if anyone wants them.

As for Monahan. Package him with Valimaki or Zary and see of you can get a legit top line center. Or a guy like Cozens.

As I said though, draft well over the next 2 seasons too. Its not an overnight re-tool but you also don't need to rebuild for 5 years imo.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by keenan87

As for Monahan. Package him with Valimaki or Zary and see of you can get a legit top line center. Or a guy like Cozens.

?????? who is going to give up a true number 1 centre for that ???????

You are going to get somebody just like Monahan. A tweener who leaves you wanting more. Why give up Zary in the process?

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

?????? who is going to give up a true number 1 centre for that ???????

You are going to get somebody just like Monahan. A tweener who leaves you wanting more. Why give up Zary in the process?

Maybe not Center but you can certainly get a top line player if you package up Monahan with Valimaki or Zary.

Some examples: Dylan Larkin, Tyler Seguin, Filip Forsberg, Travis Konecny

My personal fantasy would be Larkin.

[Jig]

Bad moves

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Maybe not Center but you can certainly get a top line player if you package up Monahan with Valimaki or Zary.

Some examples: Dylan Larkin, Tyler Seguin, Filip Forsberg, Travis Konecny

Dylan Larkin is so many tiers above any center in the Flames organization it's not even funny.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by keenan87

Maybe not Center but you can certainly get a top line player if you package up Monahan with Valimaki or Zary.

Some examples: Dylan Larkin, Tyler Seguin, Filip Forsberg, Travis Konecny

This organization just isn’t in a position where they should be spending multiple assets to try and get better today. It won’t work, and it will just keep the team in buried in irrelevancy in my eyes.

Zary, Valimaki - these guys should be part of the new era.

This current era? Time to turn the page. Build up the asset base, and move forward.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Dylan Larkin is so many tiers above any center in the Flames organization it's not even funny.

Not having a great season though. I wonder if he would be moved for the right package.

[flames_fan_down_under]

Originally Posted by nik-

Incoming GM Don Maloney. The easy hire is the Flames way.

The Great Flames Path of Succession.

Produce extremely mediocre results at various levels within the NHL, Flames braintrust swiftly identifies mediocrity and scoops up said talent, they maybe stick around within the Flames organization for a few years, continue to produce very mediocre results, then get awarded a position of tremendous importance with the Flames, continue to produce extremely mediocre results, get fired and never be given that level of responsibility in the NHL ever again! Next man up!

There is also another surefire path to the top of the Flames food chain which is what I call "The Feaster Path"**. That is where this person actually did in fact achieve the pinnacle of the job, a Stanley Cup, but had been out of work for a handful of years in the NHL, deemed irrelevant by the greater NHL community, only to find themselves plucked from obscurity and awarded a plum position of great importance with your very own Calgary Flames. The end result is still the same as before, get fired, and never be given that level of responsibility in the NHL ever again.

See:

Gulutzan, Glen
Peters, Bill
Hay, Don
Playfair, Jim
Gilbert, Greg
Macneil, Al
Ward, Geoff
Sutter, Brent
Keenan, Mike **
Feaster, Jay **
Hartley, Bob **
Button, Craig

Soon to be added to list:

Treliving, Brad
Maloney, Don

Currently worried that Darryl Sutter might be on a Feaster Path as it has all the hallmarks. Hoping i'm wrong.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

This organization just isn’t in a position where they should be spending multiple assets to try and get better today. It won’t work, and it will just keep the team in buried in irrelevancy in my eyes.

Zary, Valimaki - these guys should be part of the new era.

This current era? Time to turn the page. Build up the asset base, and move forward.

I am on board with this too. I just don't think the Flames will do a 5-7 year rebuild. That's why I think a re-tool is possible if done to perfection but it will still take 2-3 seasons.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by keenan87

I am on board with this too. I just don't think the Flames will do a 5-7 year rebuild. That's why I think a re-tool is possible if done to perfection but it will still take 2-3 seasons.

Rebuilds aren't 5-7 years. Look at what the Leafs did.

Just because the Oilers messed up for so long doesn't mean that is the default timeline to success. I'm also not saying it guarantees success.

But If you look at the top teams in the league and look at how many have top 5 draft picks, you'll start to see a pattern.

Franchise players are hard to acquire unless it's through the draft.

[keenan87]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

Rebuilds aren't 5-7 years. Look at what the Leafs did.

Just because the Oilers messed up for so long doesn't mean that is the default timeline to success. I'm also not saying it guarantees success.

But If you look at the top teams in the league and look at how many have top 5 draft picks, you'll start to see a pattern.

Franchise players are hard to acquire unless it's through the draft.

Fair enough.

I would still say a re-tool would have been much easier if they traded this core 2 seasons ago after they disappeared after the all-star game and got beaten badly by Colorado. (Or at least switched a few things up)

This was after a few disappointing series against the Ducks so wasn't like it was this core's first defeat. I advocated for big changes back then and we would have been in a much better position right now.

I am just glad people can finally see that Treliving isn't a good GM.