The Matthew Tkachuk contract negotiations

[The Cobra]

It's not just unreasonable, it's horrible for business to insist Gio remain the highest paid player. They'll never sign a long term deal with any premium player.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Meh, I disagree. I think that someone like Bennett (or even Mangiapane) can be serviceable in that spot. In the playoffs Bennett performs even better so it may work out nice in balance.

Losing Tkachuk is a blow but I would hardly call it a death knell to playoff success. Let that boy think about his greed over in europe for a year if he's really being stubborn. The success of the overall team is vital, and we can't afford to cripple ourselves by being as stupid as Dubas

Shame on Tkachuk for wanting market value for his services......he should just fall in line and accept potentially 2M less on his AAV to fit the Flames self imposed Gio cap? This team is never going to be competitive moving forward if this is the reality of how the team does business. Tkachuk is this team's 2nd best forward now and the landscape has shifted severely since the Gio and Johnny contracts were signed.

If you think Bennett and Mangiapane are going to replace Tkachuk, you are sorely underestimating his value. This team becomes effectively a one line offensive unit as soon as you start talking about Bennett as the 5th best forward this season.

[BACKCHECK!!!]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Sure the Flames can survive but its basically wasting a year of all our good contracts...Flames are already thin in the top six for a contender.

Just get it done

If Tkachuk sits, the Flames can dangle Brodie, a 1st, and $11m in cap space. I expect that package can get you a heck of a player for the top 6.

The alternative is probably moving Frolik for beans, and paying Tkachuk $8-9m. Which I'm not convinced is a better option, and is also a clear downgrade on what I agree is a bit of a thin top 6.

Just saying that the huge cap hit that Tkachuk is eyeing up is also a big asset for the Flames if he chooses to sit.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

If Tkachuk sits, the Flames can dangle Brodie, a 1st, and $11m in cap space. I expect that package can get you a heck of a player for the top 6.

The alternative is probably moving Frolik for beans, and paying Tkachuk $8-9m. Which I'm not convinced is a better option, and is also a clear downgrade on what I agree is a bit of a thin top 6.

Just saying that the huge cap hit that Tkachuk is eyeing up is also a big asset for the Flames if he chooses to sit.

Like who? Who that is actually available could replace Tkachuk and his 77 points....plus giving up yet another 1st

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Corral

Personally I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say our captain who is the league best player in his position should be the highest paid guy on the roster.

Great. It doesn't matter what you think. The fact of the matter is that the market has changed substantially since Giordano signed his deal. If there ever was a "Gio cap" (I am not convinced there was), it has simply become unsustainable. The team recognizes that. Giordano recognizes that. The rest of the players recognize that.

It’s not like the flames are going to explicitly tell the world what their true constraints are in player negotiations. Friedman et al like to think they get the facts but as I have said before they are merely the distribution side of the NHL entertainment machine. They get paid to keep fans interested. That is all

Right. But who are you? Elloitte Friedman has forged relationships inside multiple NHL teams and at the League administration levels. He talks to these people every single day. Forgive me for taking his reports about the situation over your side-line suppositions, but your pontifications about what should or should not be the case here are pretty baseless.

I think Gaudreau signed for less than he wanted because he eventually caved and agreed to less than gio. He no doubt regrets the length of his contract. Tkachuk will likewise cave but will respond by only agreeing to a shorter deal. That’s my bet anyway

Gaudreau's situation was pretty unique at the time. He was a 10.2c RFA with no arbitration rights, and was not offer-sheet eligible. Gaudreau had virtually no leverage in his negotiation, which is a big part of why he signs the deal he did.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

If Tkachuk sits, the Flames can dangle Brodie, a 1st, and $11m in cap space. I expect that package can get you a heck of a player for the top 6.

The alternative is probably moving Frolik for beans, and paying Tkachuk $8-9m. Which I'm not convinced is a better option, and is also a clear downgrade on what I agree is a bit of a thin top 6.

Just saying that the huge cap hit that Tkachuk is eyeing up is also a big asset for the Flames if he chooses to sit.

Who is going to trade a premium player for a 1-year rental and a first round pick? The cap space is useful only to the Fames for fitting in the newly acquired player.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Like who? Who that is actually available could replace Tkachuk and his 77 points....plus giving up yet another 1st

Laine and Ratanen would be an upgrade.

Brodie and Tkachuk to the Jets and sign Laine to Marner's deal.

Laine is risky by has a far higher top end than Tkachuk and Rantanen is a similar but better, bigger, faster player.

BUT the Flames would really miss Brodie.

[sureLoss]

Ryan Pyette
@RyanatLFPress
Flames RFA Matthew Tkachuk started skating with his old junior club, the London Knights, this week. He's out there with the Rupert twins. What a line that would have been (though Marner and Dvorak were pretty good mates, too).

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by browna

Well, a say $4m SB, paid Jul 1 or Sept 1 each year, as opposed to it being $500k spread over 8 months, is not insignificant value to the player and the team, given that time value of it being in the Flames account, or the player's account.

Affects the Flames internal budgeting and finances, as those are paid before ticket revenue and ad revenue and TV revenue etc have been received and or realized for that upcoming year.

Also affects insurance. If a player gets hurt longer term, I believe the insurance the team carries on the player only pays his salary while on IR, during the season, and this that wouldn't include covering the SB he got in the summer of that year so the Flames wouldn't have protection there if the entire players annual amount was in weekly salary and not a SB.

And, as mentioned I think only JG and SM have that perk of a decent sized SB(and only 1 or 2 in the lives of their contract) so do you want to go and give a Tkachuk a big SB as a perk every year for 7 years that no one else has, in addition to maybe being the top paid player, as far as how that all is compared to the rest of the roster?

Also related, BT doesn't want to set a precedence going forward.
It's of course not up there with term or cap hit, but it's not far behind and not insignificant for a number of reasons.

The biggest benefits of bonuses vs salary (for the player) would be:

1) the bonus gets paid, even if the season doesn't happen

2) the potential to have that bonus taxed in a jurisdiction that is more favorable than the one the team is located in.

3) (as mentioned), getting the cash faster and earlier is always preferable.

For ownership, it is the opposite of course. They want to minimize bonuses, primarily due to reason #1, but also #3. With salary, the cash flows match the cash inflows. But with signing bonuses - not so much.

[Enoch Root]

Having the player sit out the season is a MASSIVE lose-lose for both sides. Talking about it like it is a viable option is ridiculous.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Laine and Ratanen would be an upgrade.

Brodie and Tkachuk to the Jets and sign Laine to Marner's deal.

Laine is risky by has a far higher top end than Tkachuk and Rantanen is a similar but better, bigger, faster player.

BUT the Flames would really miss Brodie.

I'd rather sign Tkachuk to the Marner deal than Laine. But I wouldn't sign either of them to that deal. Plus the jets don't have the additional cap room for both players.

Why would Colorado trade Rantanen? For a down grade in Tkachuk LOL?

[Stay Golden]

Has any news come out what the Flames have actually offered Tkachuk ?
Do we actually know how far apart they are, less than 1m or more than 2m?

Could be they are closer on $$$ but not on the term?

[lazypucker]

I still think Tkachuck can't/won't sign until some money (Brodie/Frolik) is traded away

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Has any news come out what the Flames have actually offered Tkachuk ?
Do we actually know how far apart they are, less than 1m or more than 2m?

Could be they are closer on $$$ but not on the term?

No.
No.
Yes.

[VilleN]

Originally Posted by BACKCHECK!!!

If Tkachuk sits, the Flames can dangle Brodie, a 1st, and $11m in cap space. I expect that package can get you a heck of a player for the top 6.

The alternative is probably moving Frolik for beans, and paying Tkachuk $8-9m. Which I'm not convinced is a better option, and is also a clear downgrade on what I agree is a bit of a thin top 6.

Just saying that the huge cap hit that Tkachuk is eyeing up is also a big asset for the Flames if he chooses to sit.

Cap space isn't really an asset... like you can't give your cap space to another team in exchange for a good player. Who could you get with your proposal? Point? I'd say that is unlikely and he's looking for Marner money, so now you've lost Tkachuk, Brodie, a first round pick and gained an undersized forward (albeit elite) who you are paying close to 11m per... I would much rather keep Brodie and our 1st and pay Tkachuk 8-9m... I'm not even convinced Point projects to be that much better than Tkachuk.

[Textcritic]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1174404528025886721

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Stay Golden

Has any news come out what the Flames have actually offered Tkachuk ?
Do we actually know how far apart they are, less than 1m or more than 2m?

Could be they are closer on $$$ but not on the term?

The fact that neither side has used the media to negotiate publicly is a good sign in my opinion.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Laine and Ratanen would be an upgrade.

Brodie and Tkachuk to the Jets and sign Laine to Marner's deal.

Laine is risky by has a far higher top end than Tkachuk and Rantanen is a similar but better, bigger, faster player.

BUT the Flames would really miss Brodie.

Laine is NOT an upgrade...especially at 11M, come on now

[Enoch Root]

Yeah, Laine is not an upgrade on Tkachuk. Rantanen, sure (though that is debateable too). Laine? Not at this point.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Laine is NOT an upgrade...especially at 11M, come on now

Guy is a Jets fan, of course he would trade his digruntled one trick pony for Matty.